'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 200 - AVS Forum
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post #5971 of 6039 Old 07-04-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
What's your point? You can see comments on the internet from people thinking it was a LotR image and the majority of the public have no idea what an astrolabe is, never mind a Dyson sphere.
My point is you're taking my post way out of context .. I'm not challenging you ..

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post #5972 of 6039 Old 07-04-2014, 08:32 AM
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Inside of a Dyson sphere? WTF? Not according to my understanding of that construct.

I don't know exactly what combination of legal and/or illegal pharmacological aids might lead someone there. That said, far be it for me to criticize someone else's creative muse.

'Star Trek: TNG' once did an episode where the Enterprise came across a Dyson Sphere, got inside, got trapped. Pretty good conceptualization of the concept, I thought. The GoT intro is not remotely close to that concept in execution or, certainly, scale. IMO.
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post #5973 of 6039 Old 07-04-2014, 03:04 PM
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I never analyzed the intro that much. I saw it a few times and that was enough for me. I skip it nowadays. I just took it at face value. A map with some mechanical device that could be conceivable in their world. It doesn't exist, even in this fictional world. I looked at it like a cartoon intro to a movie.

Now that I know it's supposed to be inside a dyson sphere, does is matter?

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post #5974 of 6039 Old 07-04-2014, 07:37 PM
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Now that I know it's supposed to be inside a dyson sphere, does is matter?
It doesn't, because it isn't, and IMO they did a disservice to everyone by invoking that term.

This world is not a Dyson sphere; Dyson spheres don't have compass directions and climatic zones the way planets do. "Dyson sphere" is not just an alternate way of drawing a map like a Mercator projection. It's a (theoretical, of course) way of using all the matter in a star system to construct a giant shell around a sun.

So if they found it expedient to imagine their map drawn on the inside of a sphere so they could put the camera inside, that's just alternate cartography. It has nothing to do with Freeman Dyson.
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post #5975 of 6039 Old 07-05-2014, 11:01 AM
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You can always tell when the current season of GoT is over and everyone is staring to Jones for the new season when the conversations, enlightened though they may be, revert to opening sequence animation, etc. I always thought Dyson made vacuum cleaners
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post #5976 of 6039 Old 07-05-2014, 12:12 PM
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It doesn't, because it isn't, and IMO they did a disservice to everyone by invoking that term.

This world is not a Dyson sphere; Dyson spheres don't have compass directions and climatic zones the way planets do. "Dyson sphere" is not just an alternate way of drawing a map like a Mercator projection. It's a (theoretical, of course) way of using all the matter in a star system to construct a giant shell around a sun.

So if they found it expedient to imagine their map drawn on the inside of a sphere so they could put the camera inside, that's just alternate cartography. It has nothing to do with Freeman Dyson.
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post #5977 of 6039 Old 07-05-2014, 12:16 PM
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I always thought Dyson made vacuum cleaners

They do, and they really suck.


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post #5978 of 6039 Old 07-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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They do, and they really suck.


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post #5979 of 6039 Old 07-05-2014, 04:48 PM
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^^^^ ba-dup-dup
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post #5980 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 03:23 AM
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So if they found it expedient to imagine their map drawn on the inside of a sphere so they could put the camera inside, that's just alternate cartography. It has nothing to do with Freeman Dyson.
Except it does. Go and read the articles interviewing the title designers who specifically stated they got the ideas from Da Vinci (from the ahem, Renaissance period) and the 60's science-fiction idea of a world inside a hollow sphere encasing a sun.

There's one of those articles posted during the first season of this very thread. I guess only a few of us bothered to read it and further proves that a lot of people have no idea what they are looking at. And when you need someone to explain your visual design, then it's a failure of execution.

Then there were those who could tell it was a Dyson Sphere and then started speculating that the entire world is literally on the inside of a sphere just because of the title design. Talk about confusing the issue.

Let me be clear, the artwork is excellently rendered, with some great details but I don't think the style belongs on Thrones at all and the conceptual idea is just too abstract. The raven flying over rising stone and wood sculptured map on either a 2D plane or the exterior of a globe would have served the same purpose and have been more fitting and clear.

The current titles would probably look perfect on a Guillermo Del Toro fantasy epic.



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post #5981 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 05:49 AM
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Except it does. Go and read the articles interviewing the title designers who specifically stated they got the ideas from Da Vinci (from the ahem, Renaissance period) and the 60's science-fiction idea of a world inside a hollow sphere encasing a sun.

There's one of those articles posted during the first season of this very thread. I guess only a few of us bothered to read it and further proves that a lot of people have no idea what they are looking at. And when you need someone to explain your visual design, then it's a failure of execution.

Then there were those who could tell it was a Dyson Sphere and then started speculating that the entire world is literally on the inside of a sphere just because of the title design. Talk about confusing the issue.

Let me be clear, the artwork is excellently rendered, with some great details but I don't think the style belongs on Thrones at all and the conceptual idea is just too abstract. The raven flying over rising stone and wood sculptured map on either a 2D plane or the exterior of a globe would have served the same purpose and have been more fitting and clear.

The current titles would probably look perfect on a Guillermo Del Toro fantasy epic.

Wow, like I said, I missed the original discussion. I didn't realize that people were so rabid in their opinions on the title sequence. As with any creative endeavour, things are open to interpretation and opinion. I didn't read the article you're referring to, but perhaps the creators were inspired by the concept of a Dyson's Sphere and the othe things mentioned. That's not to mean it is a DS. You might not feel that it fits the theme of the show and your suggestion does, but that has been done before. In Indiana Jones, they would show a little red dot tracing his travels on a 2D map. And this was inspired by similar renditions from the old movies that inspired IJ.

Also, on the talk of appropriateness of the the title to the theme of the show, how does Star Wars' scrolling intro fit into the Science Fantasy theme? Maybe it should have been an R2 unit displaying a 3D version of the intro or light sabre swipes to switch between screens of text instead of a continuous scroll into infinity.
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post #5982 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post
Also, on the talk of appropriateness of the the title to the theme of the show, how does Star Wars' scrolling intro fit into the Science Fantasy theme? Maybe it should have been an R2 unit displaying a 3D version of the intro or light sabre swipes to switch between screens of text instead of a continuous scroll into infinity.
Well said, that. The whole idea of the title sequence being inside a Dyson Sphere is ridiculous - no matter how much I squint my eyes, I can't really see it. My guess is that "inspiration" came as a afterthought. Probably after ingestion of an appropriate amount of psychoactive pharmacological fuel.

But as I said above, far be it from me to question how they did it or what "inspiration" they used to make it sound more profound than it actually was. The creative muse cannot be constrained by somebody else's interpretation. They say Dyson Sphere; I call BS. Who cares? All I know is, like most HBO shows, it's pretty damn inspired. However they did it.
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post #5983 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 06:43 AM
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Also, on the talk of appropriateness of the the title to the theme of the show, how does Star Wars' scrolling intro fit into the Science Fantasy theme?
per wiki:

Lucas has stated that the opening crawl was inspired by the opening crawls used at the beginning of each episode of the original Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers film serials, which were the inspiration for Lucas to write much of the Star Wars saga.

I never watch the GOT opening i just FF to the beginning of the show.

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post #5984 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 07:27 AM
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per wiki:

Lucas has stated that the opening crawl was inspired by the opening crawls used at the beginning of each episode of the original Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers film serials, which were the inspiration for Lucas to write much of the Star Wars saga.

I never watch the GOT opening i just FF to the beginning of the show.
Good catch. I suspected as much, but was too lazy to look it up.

But this actually helps my point. No matter the theme of the actual show/movie, the opening can be inspired by things that don't necessarily relate or are obscure in their origins.

I feel the beginning of GOT is unique and creative and the actual clockwork contraptions help point out the "Game" aspect.

Having been in the creative side of things, I can imagine the scenario where the creators were under the gun to produce with something that would stand out and came up with the final product through many iterations which might not look like the original concept. Afterwards, when asked to explain how they came up with it, they kind of made up an explanation that sounded more impressive than "We just tried a bunch of stuff and then we ran out of time and budget."
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post #5985 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 07:39 AM
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Except it does. Go and read the articles interviewing the title designers who specifically stated they got the ideas from Da Vinci (from the ahem, Renaissance period) and the 60's science-fiction idea of a world inside a hollow sphere encasing a sun.
And all I'm saying is that the title design people may have taken a visual cue from Dyson's concept, but that doesn't in any way imply or infer that He Who Cannot Be Named In This Thread is writing about a world inside a Dyson Sphere, that the concept has anything to do with the story or its setting.

I like the title sequence, personally, simply as a piece of video art. It's fun, it's compelling, and it connects directly to the narrative. At the same time its anachronisms and stylistic dissonances aren't lost on me. Nevertheless, I praise HBO for rescuing the art of the title sequence from the oblivion modern TV has been trying to condemn it to.

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post #5986 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 09:17 AM
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I wouldn't mind seeing it go away. Make way for more show time. It is a pretty long intro.
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post #5987 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 12:03 PM
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And all I'm saying is that the title design people may have taken a visual cue from Dyson's concept, but that doesn't in any way imply or infer that He Who Cannot Be Named In This Thread is writing about a world inside a Dyson Sphere, that the concept has anything to do with the story or its setting.
I agree with you completely! But using the concept as a stylistic cue is exactly what the designers did and as I mentioned above is exactly how some people took it literally as the universe the show takes place in.

Again, the fact the presentation as you said does not imply "the concept has anything to do with the story or its setting" is one of the reasons it doesn't fit the show.


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post #5988 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 12:17 PM
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Well said, that. The whole idea of the title sequence being inside a Dyson Sphere is ridiculous - no matter how much I squint my eyes, I can't really see it.
Which is why I said it doesn't work. Nice to see you agree.

The problem is the audience can't visualize it because it is such an abstract concept. It's been so long since I actually watched it, even I forgot how it actually works.

This is the astrolabe in the title with a much less fiery sun in the center:



Pretty cool looking device, nicely rendered with the history of the houses on the ring.

Now that entire spinning device is actually inside a giant sphere. The 3D map of the entire GoT world is on the inside of that sphere. When the sequence begins the camera is already inside the sphere and zooms through the rings to the interior surface and then flies around. The fact the camera starts inside is one of the problems if you don't realize how the map is constructed, because then the flyover is curved for no particular reason.

Even looking at the astrolabe render I still think it would have been far simpler and just as effective to have put the globe in the center and pan across that. They could even have the sun rotating around on one of the rings.


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post #5989 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post
Also, on the talk of appropriateness of the the title to the theme of the show, how does Star Wars' scrolling intro fit into the Science Fantasy theme?
It's typography that isn't anachronistic with the world it represents, (most of) the Rebels and the Empire still use the English language and sans serif fonts. Probably bought or stolen from gww.myfonts.empire.

Plus as mentioned, like the screen wipes, it was a throwback homage to the old shows.


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post #5990 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 03:11 PM
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Why does everything have to "fit" [emoji6] sometimes people do things just because it looks "cool"


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post #5991 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 03:40 PM
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Now that entire spinning device is actually inside a giant sphere. The 3D map of the entire GoT world is on the inside of that sphere.
Of course, if the giant sphere really was a Dyson sphere, it wouldn't be a map. It would be the entire world of GOT.
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post #5992 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 03:50 PM
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Why does everything have to "fit" [emoji6] sometimes people do things just because it looks "cool"
And having someone to say to a creative when something doesn't fit is the difference between something that works and something that doesn't. I think A Place to Bury Strangers are cool. Does that mean they would be the perfect replacement as the new soundtrack?

Someone thought it was cool to create Jar Jar Binks, add lips to Optimus Prime, have Shia LeBouf swinging with monkeys and add nipples to the Batsuit. Justin Beiber is cool too.

Your definition of "cool" will vary. As it does for everyone, even watching GoT. Characters dying, amount of boobs onscreen, amount of blood-spurting, number of dire wolves and horses killed ... some viewers think less is cool others want more.

Coolcoolcool.
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post #5993 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 04:03 PM
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Of course, if the giant sphere really was a Dyson sphere, it wouldn't be a map. It would be the entire world of GOT.
And it is. According to the creators they used all the maps of the world Martin had, with space to add more when needed. You only see the relevant places each episode and they render new structures and land when the plot requires it.

Jeez, you guys really should read some of those interviews. It would save me the effort of trying to describe their idea.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/rac...credits-179656


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post #5994 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 04:05 PM
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Geesh I got 3 paragraphs for something I was having fun with hehe. Honestly I think this forum is one of the only places you'll see dissecting and debating the validity of an intro title sequence [emoji6]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, you can just tell the season is over and people are Jonesing for next year lol


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post #5995 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 04:14 PM
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Geesh I got 3 paragraphs for something I was having fun with hehe. Honestly I think this forum is one of the only places you'll see dissecting and debating the validity of an intro title sequence [emoji6]
Honestly, I'm kind of disappointed that given the amount of AVS readers who supposedly miss the days of the elaborate title sequence and which is now increasingly being replaced by a title card and "boink!" noise, that more people haven't been interested in how one of the most widely viewed was created.

As RD said above, at least HBO are still being creative with their titles. Even when I don't think they work, they still have great production value - Boardwalk Empire being another I don't agree with.

The super short intro to Silcon Valley and it's pocket history of the computer tech world is one of my current favorites.

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post #5996 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 05:48 PM
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I agree it's a nice change of pace with HBO. While I understand why some people have issues with the GoT sequence, I am not one of them. I enjoy watching it every week. HBO has done an excellent job with the recent intros of their shows. Sometimes short intros are good and sometime a adding just a little creativeness will have the viewer sit through then even though they don't need to


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post #5997 of 6039 Old 07-06-2014, 08:34 PM
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Ge
I'm not saying it's a bad thing, you can just tell the season is over and people are Jonesing for next year lol

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Yep. That's exactly what I said back in post 5975. I think this whole discussion has been hilarious and a bit enlightening.
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post #5998 of 6039 Old 07-07-2014, 05:17 AM
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Wink

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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
Then there were those who could tell it was a Dyson Sphere and then started speculating that the entire world is literally on the inside of a sphere just because of the title design. Talk about confusing the issue.
Oh, it's like the final scene in Just Like Heaven where Jon Header's, Darryl. shows the snow globe of which all is contained within and says, "Righteous".
Or in MIB, the amulet worn around the cat's neck that contains the galaxy. Come on people!
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post #5999 of 6039 Old 07-07-2014, 05:42 AM
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I wouldn't mind seeing it go away. Make way for more show time. It is a pretty long intro.
You want more show time you talk to the show runners who keep putting up 52 minute episodes. The title sequence has no effect on them cutting the episodes short. Even two more minutes per episode of slightly extended scenes would help give breathing room between scenes.
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post #6000 of 6039 Old 07-07-2014, 07:44 AM
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It's not a Dyson Sphere, but it is news on Season 5 ...




http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/travel...ml?hpt=hp_bn10

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