'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 217 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6481 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
It was burned out until they replaced it with House Bolton. Once House Bolton took over they showed the "rebuilding" with their sigil. What don't you know about? That was a pretty in depth article on how decisions are made and how much work it actually takes to get changes or additions done.


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That wasn't meant as a negative statement so sorry if that's how it sounded. My wife just happened to point that out last night while watching the opening sequence.
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post #6482 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 11:02 AM
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If there is any truth to the rumor on Jon that's floated around the Web since season 1 or 2, the clues reside within any discussion Jon has had with Maester Aemon Targaryen .. and Aemon pretty much confirmed Ned was Jon's father ... at least that's how I see it .. Ned telling Jon he would talk about his mother does not imply in any way anything other than a talk ..
How would anything Aemon said confirm that?

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post #6483 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 11:07 AM
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How would anything Aemon said confirm that?
Season 1, Episode 9 ...

Maester Aemon: Tell me, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night's Watch take no wives and father no children?
Jon Snow: No.
Maester Aemon: So they will not love. Love is the death of duty. If the day should ever come when your lord father was forced to choose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?
Jon Snow: He... He would do whatever was right. No matter what.
Maester Aemon: Then Lord Stark is one man in 10,000. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman's love? And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?

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post #6484 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Season 1, Episode 9 ...

Maester Aemon: Tell me, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night's Watch take no wives and father no children?
Jon Snow: No.
Maester Aemon: So they will not love. Love is the death of duty. If the day should ever come when your lord father was forced to choose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?
Jon Snow: He... He would do whatever was right. No matter what.
Maester Aemon: Then Lord Stark is one man in 10,000. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman's love? And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?
Hmm, I don't think it really confirms anything. Only one of his 3 examples would apply to Ned/Jon/Catelyn/Other Woman. You could take that as a possible clue, but I wouldn't see it that way in this instance, and certainly not as a confirmation.

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post #6485 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
That wasn't meant as a negative statement so sorry if that's how it sounded. My wife just happened to point that out last night while watching the opening sequence.

No need to apologize the House Bolton has been there since at least the beginning of this season and I want to say the end of last.


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post #6486 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Season 1, Episode 9 ...

Maester Aemon: Tell me, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night's Watch take no wives and father no children?
Jon Snow: No.
Maester Aemon: So they will not love. Love is the death of duty. If the day should ever come when your lord father was forced to choose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?
Jon Snow: He... He would do whatever was right. No matter what.
Maester Aemon: Then Lord Stark is one man in 10,000. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman's love? And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?
Don't forget who Aemon is. He could as easily (in my mind, more easily) be talking about himself, and the life and family he left behind for the sake of honor. If anyone can actually answer those questions, it's Aemon.

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post #6487 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post
Putting weapons in the hands of religious nut balls is never a good idea. I wonder to what end Cersei did that, if I understand it right.
I missed why she's doing this in the first place--just to gain more of an army & power?

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post #6488 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 12:25 PM
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I missed why she's doing this in the first place--just to gain more of an army & power?
To cause some grief for Margaery. By using a semi-autonomous group to attack/abduct Loras she can feign a lack of control over how to get him released. End result being Margaery is off home to get help, which is what Cersei wants, Margaery gone. Why Margarery has to go home to do that is puzzling to me though, why couldn't she just send a messenger? I suppose she feels her position in Kings Landing is tenuous at best at this point and leaving seems like the prudent move.
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post #6489 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 12:38 PM
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To cause some grief for Margaery. By using a semi-autonomous group to attack/abduct Loras she can feign a lack of control over how to get him released. End result being Margaery is off home to get help, which is what Cersei wants, Margaery gone.
aah, got it-thanks.

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post #6490 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post
I missed why she's doing this in the first place--just to gain more of an army & power?
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
To cause some grief for Margaery. By using a semi-autonomous group to attack/abduct Loras she can feign a lack of control over how to get him released. End result being Margaery is off home to get help, which is what Cersei wants, Margaery gone. Why Margarery has to go home to do that is puzzling to me though, why couldn't she just send a messenger? I suppose she feels her position in Kings Landing is tenuous at best at this point and leaving seems like the prudent move.
Margaery can't leave because that leaves Tommen alone under Cersei's gentle care. He could divorce her claiming abandonment or some other foolishness that Cersei comes up with.

Tyrion is gone, Tywin is gone, her uncle is gone and Jaime is irrelevant and also gone. She is fully free to be as crazy as she can be.
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post #6491 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 01:12 PM
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Margaery can't leave because that leaves Tommen alone under Cersei's gentle care. He could divorce her claiming abandonment or some other foolishness that Cersei comes up with.

Tyrion is gone, Tywin is gone, her uncle is gone and Jaime is irrelevant and also gone. She is fully free to be as crazy as she can be.
I've forgotten - who is the Hand of the King now that Tywin is no more?
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post #6492 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 01:47 PM
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Margaery can't leave because that leaves Tommen alone under Cersei's gentle care. He could divorce her claiming abandonment or some other foolishness that Cersei comes up with.

Tyrion is gone, Tywin is gone, her uncle is gone and Jaime is irrelevant and also gone. She is fully free to be as crazy as she can be.
Well yes, and that's what makes her comment about going home curious to me.
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post #6493 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 01:59 PM
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Hmm, I don't think it really confirms anything. Only one of his 3 examples would apply to Ned/Jon/Catelyn/Other Woman. You could take that as a possible clue, but I wouldn't see it that way in this instance, and certainly not as a confirmation.

I am simply taking dialog evidence from the show .. I'm not using thinly disguised speculation taken from the Books as some do here .. we have little to no real evidence within the show itself .. however, besides Aemon's talk with Jon .. we have :

Robert Baratheon seems certain of Jon’s mother’s identity. While lunching along the King’s Road and engaging in ‘Who bedded whom?’ nostalgia, he poses the question to Ned, “Yours was, Elena. You told me once, your bastard’s mother. Meryl?” To which Ned reluctantly responds, “Wylla.”


Cat asks Ned about Jon's mother .. Ned says : “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know.” .. Cat seems frightened by Ned's attitude ..

Also, in Episode 2, before Jon and Ned part ways on the Kingsroad, Ned says, "There's great honor in serving the Night's Watch. The Starks have manned the Wall for thousands of years, and you are a Stark. You may not have my name, but you have my blood. "

It is known ..

the TV show has downplayed the mystery to the point where it seems extremely clear-cut: Eddard is Jon's father and his mother is, according to Eddard himself, a common girl named Wylla... myself, I doubt very much there will be any TV Show great mystery reveal ..



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Don't forget who Aemon is. He could as easily (in my mind, more easily) be talking about himself, and the life and family he left behind for the sake of honor. If anyone can actually answer those questions, it's Aemon.
Exactly, the question is who is left on the show that would be privy to the knowledge .. ??

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post #6494 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 02:28 PM
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I've forgotten - who is the Hand of the King now that Tywin is no more?
Nobody.

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post #6495 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 05:03 PM
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I wanted to pose a quick question a bit off track.
At the end of last season Brienne found Ayra and
During the fight with the Hound Ayra slips away.

At the beginning of this season Brienne and Pod
Stumble upon Sansa and Littlefinger in the tavern.

During the ensuing verbal exchange I wonder why
Brienne didn't mention to Sansa that Ayra was still
Alive????

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post #6496 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 05:40 PM
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I wanted to pose a quick question a bit off track.
At the end of last season Brienne found Ayra and
During the fight with the Hound Ayra slips away.

At the beginning of this season Brienne and Pod
Stumble upon Sansa and Littlefinger in the tavern.

During the ensuing verbal exchange I wonder why
Brienne didn't mention to Sansa that Ayra was still
Alive????

It probably wasn't the 1st thing on her mind. Also, she was rejected by Arya so it probably wouldn't be best to say that. Don't forget she doesn't trust who Sansa is with so saying that would put Arya at risk.


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post #6497 of 6518 Unread Yesterday, 06:41 PM
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Every person who knows the Stark kids are alive makes them bigger targets for capture, ransom or execution.
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post #6498 of 6518 Unread Today, 04:54 AM
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I don't think Aemon has any clue about Jon's heritage. He would be under the same ruse as everyone else that Ned was his father. If it's a ruse. Plus he's most likely been on the wall since before Jon's birth.

If he knew a different truth, why would he reveal it in an innocent sentence such as what was quoted earlier.
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post #6499 of 6518 Unread Today, 06:45 AM
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I don't think Aemon has any clue about Jon's heritage. He would be under the same ruse as everyone else that Ned was his father. If it's a ruse. Plus he's most likely been on the wall since before Jon's birth.

If he knew a different truth, why would he reveal it in an innocent sentence such as what was quoted earlier.
I remember Aemon's dialogue - it was to remind Jon of his duty to the cause; he recounted his long lost love in the past and all he forsook to take the black.

I don't think it had to do with Jon's parentage.
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post #6500 of 6518 Unread Today, 07:32 AM
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I don't think Aemon has any clue about Jon's heritage. He would be under the same ruse as everyone else that Ned was his father. If it's a ruse. Plus he's most likely been on the wall since before Jon's birth.

If he knew a different truth, why would he reveal it in an innocent sentence such as what was quoted earlier.
True Aemon has been on the wall for a long long time. It's unclear in my mind what he did first, become a Maester first or a man of the Night's Watch. If we could get a time line I would bet he has been on the wall as a Maester for at least 60 years and thats a low number. Aemon's knowledge of Jon and his parentage would be limited to what he is told on the wall more then likely from Jon's uncle.

As for the truth about Jon and what King Robert knew of it is convent for what Ned wanted him to know. There is a question about what Robert did see but I would guess that Robert was thinking if he was doing it so was Ned and Robert was drunk most of the time also. I think in the time line Ned was married to Kat very early in the war, and she was still at her parents home and expecting a baby. Ned and Robert both spent the youth with Jon Arryn but both left with the character they came with. They were complete opposite in character. Later Ned found it convent to go along with Robert and his drunken fantasies.
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post #6501 of 6518 Unread Today, 08:29 AM
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I'm thinking the producers have saved up the production money for something yet to come this season .. when I watched the pre-season "Making Of" .. we were led to believe the lush and rich Dorne would be featured, etc .. yet, to this point, we have a recycled Night's Watch set, a bleak stretch of sand where the Sand Snakes meet, a beach where Bron and Jamie show up, some street scenes, recycled Meereen sets, a side street fight with the Sons of the Harpy .. etc ..


Maybe it's just me, but it just feels the production values are not up to what we've seen in previous seasons and we're 4 episodes in .. maybe something big is coming .. ??


I also find it interesting that The Sons of the Harpy and The Faith Militant are coincidentally inserted ..


I was a little disappointed in the intro of "Deadly Viper Assassination Squad" .. I guess I expected more fanfare ..


Is Barristan dead .. ?? Is Grey Worm dead .. ?? Was Dany's talk with Barristan really a good bye .. ??


Tommen Baratheon is the total polar opposite of Joff .. how in the heck could they both have come out of the same womb, raised in the same place .. ??


The renewed pairing of Bronn and Jamie is great ..


Lastly, kudos to Stannis for what I thought was one of the best scenes on Sunday between him and Shireen .. Stannis is now, in fact, being softened into less of an emotionless Droid, at least a little ..

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post #6502 of 6518 Unread Today, 08:58 AM
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I'm thinking the producers have saved up the production money for something yet to come this season .. when I watched the pre-season "Making Of" .. we were led to believe the lush and rich Dorne would be featured, etc .. yet, to this point, we have a recycled Night's Watch set, a bleak stretch of sand where the Sand Snakes meet, a beach where Bron and Jamie show up, some street scenes, recycled Meereen sets, a side street fight with the Sons of the Harpy .. etc ..
Are you kidding? Arya's journey featured spectacular Braavos harbor scenes and the House of Black and White; we saw the harbor again during the kidnapping. Doran Martell's dialog with his sister took place in a beautiful garden and palace setting (the very one you allude to from the special). We've returned to Winterfell (via a spectacular panoramic composite shot past Littlefinger and Sansa to Winterfell in the distance) and the tombs. Lots of expansive exteriors in the Daenerys scenes.

I certainly don't feel deprived so far in S5. Far from it.

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post #6503 of 6518 Unread Today, 09:00 AM
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I'm thinking the producers have saved up the production money for something yet to come this season .. when I watched the pre-season "Making Of" .. we were led to believe the lush and rich Dorne would be featured

Maybe it's just me, but it just feels the production values are not up to what we've seen in previous seasons and we're 4 episodes in .. maybe something big is coming .. ?

Is Barristan dead .. ?? Is Grey Worm dead .. ?? Was Dany's talk with Barristan really a good bye .. ??

Lastly, kudos to Stannis for what I thought was one of the best scenes on Sunday between him and Shireen .. Stannis is now, in fact, being softened into less of an emotionless Droid, at least a little ..
We did see some dorne gardens in ep2 when doran (the wheelchair dude) & ellaria were arguing - from previews should see more when myrcella story really kicks in.

Going by how previous seasons have played out isnt something big always coming ?

Barriston sure looked dead in the next ep promo.

Still did take stannis a few moments there to finally put his arms around shireen though didnt it.


Guess viewership has finally hit "The Wall" --- slower pace - loss of key players - hbo now - 4 eps leaked ?

Ep 4 was 6.815 million up from ep3 6.711 but was the 1st time ever an ep was lower than the previous seasons same ep - last season ep4 was 6.948.

On the + side 18-49 rating was 3.6 making it #2 on all of tv last week - nfl draft day 1 was #1 with 3.9 espn/nfln combined.

Ep5 is 1st ep not leaked so be interesting to see the #.

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post #6504 of 6518 Unread Today, 09:07 AM
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Still did take stannis a few moments there to finally put his arms around shireen though didnt it.
Which is understandable considering the whole "showing affection"men had in that era unless trying to get laid!
I looked at it as a moment where he finally opened up to her when recalling the story to her. He was being a father.
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post #6505 of 6518 Unread Today, 09:22 AM
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Are you kidding? Arya's journey featured spectacular Braavos harbor scenes and the House of Black and White; we saw the harbor again during the kidnapping. Doran Martell's dialog with his sister took place in a beautiful garden and palace setting (the very one you allude to from the special). We've returned to Winterfell (via a spectacular panoramic composite shot past Littlefinger and Sansa to Winterfell in the distance) and the tombs. Lots of expansive exteriors in the Daenerys scenes.

I certainly don't feel deprived so far in S5. Far from it.
RD, I did not mean to imply we were totally deprived ..

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post #6506 of 6518 Unread Today, 09:24 AM
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Ok, Tommen is a nice kid and all, but he's so ineffectual, it's infuriating! He makes me want to shout expletives and throw things at the TV. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I *almost* wish that Joffrey was still around . I'm also left to wonder... who yields more power: Cersei, the King's mother, or Queen Margaery? Even without Tommen to do her bidding, I would think Margaery has more legal authority than Cersei (seriously, what's her official position), and as such, could wage quite an effective political battle on her own.

edit: Wouldn't it be hilarious if *someone* produced evidence of Cersei and Jaime's incestual relationship to the High Sparrow, and she got thrown in the dungeon by the very people she gave power to? I think that would be fun to see

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post #6507 of 6518 Unread Today, 09:45 AM
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We did see some dorne gardens in ep2 when doran (the wheelchair dude) & ellaria were arguing - from previews should see more when myrcella story really kicks in.

Going by how previous seasons have played out isnt something big always coming ?

Barriston sure looked dead in the next ep promo.

Still did take stannis a few moments there to finally put his arms around shireen though didnt it.


Guess viewership has finally hit "The Wall" --- slower pace - loss of key players - hbo now - 4 eps leaked ?

Ep 4 was 6.815 million up from ep3 6.711 but was the 1st time ever an ep was lower than the previous seasons same ep - last season ep4 was 6.948.

On the + side 18-49 rating was 3.6 making it #2 on all of tv last week - nfl draft day 1 was #1 with 3.9 espn/nfln combined.

Ep5 is 1st ep not leaked so be interesting to see the #.

This past weekend was very heavy on sports, I suspect the live +3 numbers will bring it back in line. As you said this past week as also the last of the leaked episodes so it will be interesting to see what uptick if any we see next week.

Speaking of next week it looks like a good one from the previews.


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Lots of hints dropped about Job Snow's lineage this episode. First Stannis said random tavern wench is not Ned's style. Then Melissandre tried to get it on with Jon to make another smoke baby? We know she is a total royal groupie. Then Littlefinger gave Sansa a history lesson. Raeghar (sp?) kidnapped and raped Lianne, Ned's sister and Sansa's aunt, and started a war that killed tens of thousands. Put two and two together and Jon is Raeghar and Lianne's rape (love?) child. Ned, being the noble guy that he is, is just the sort to bring up his sister's bastard child as his own. Jon has Stark and Targaryan blood. That is a potent magical and political combo.

Sorry if this is old news.

How old is Tommen supposed to be? In the book I think he is like ten. Of course in the book Marge is probably like sixteen so it's not that creepy. Poor guy. He just wants to get it on with his hot older chick wife but look what he has to deal with.

It's hard to believe, but it does seem like Littlefinger does not know what a total psycho Ramsay is, because I think he is really fond of Sansa (albeit in a creepy dirty uncle way) and would not throw her in the lion's maw. But no he seems to think Ramsay is your run of the mill douche and it's daddy Bolton she needs to worry about.

I kind of feel like the fight with the sons of gold face was shoe horned in to add some action to this episode and was bored by it. I guess Ser Barrester has served his purpose. Dude went out in style. Grayworm will live with a bit of ministering from what's her name.

What, Jaime finally figured out his could use his gold hand as a sword stopper? He has a lousy teacher!

Does everyone in the seven kingdoms know about the twincest? Poor Brann got thrown out the window for nothing.
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post
Does everyone in the seven kingdoms know about the twincest? Poor Brann got thrown out the window for nothing.

I think the Twincest rumours really picked up after Ned stirred things up and lost his head, so Brann had already taken his flight.
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Then Melissandre tried to get it on with Jon to make another smoke baby? We know she is a total royal groupie.
The counter argument would be that Jon's brother Rob was "King of the North" so Jon has royal blood as a half Stark regardless of any Targaryen ties. I tend to believe the Targaryen love story being Jon's origin, but...Jon's a royal for any self-respecting royal groupie like Melisandre as long as he's part Stark.

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