'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 223 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6661 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
I will say that the Sand Snake battle was the weakest point of the episode for me as well. I think the choreography of the fight was "off" and seemed awkward. The guard however is not a sand snake, and we really didn't get to see him in action. His weapon of choice however seems to be "slow" compared to the sword play we get from the westeros realm.
It was that the fight was too obviously not a fight, but a dance. Whether because of insufficient rehearsal or a lack of ability on the part of the participants, you could almost see them counting off the moves in their heads as they made them. "Spin, lunge, thrust, wait, parry, pause 1, 2, 3, jump..." while someone counted the beats off-camera.

The final scene was heartbreaking, as difficult to watch as anything the show has ever done.

Everything we had to endure when Ramsay was torturing Theon is now being paid off in Alfie's performance as Reek.
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post #6662 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 08:19 AM
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I imagine Reek is going to kill Ramsey, maybe even opening scene next episode.I think when he was made to say his name while giving Sansa away and then seeing Sansa being raped was enough to snap him back.

James Reid:D
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post #6663 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 08:51 AM
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This is what happens basically every season. Everyone says nothing seems to be happening and then it all comes together and everyone says "ohhhhh".
No that is not what happens every season as I pointed out before. In past seasons characters had clear goals and were working towards specific events driving the story forward with increasing consequences. Escape, revenge, in the middle of a war, acquiring allies etc.

This time last season we already had two significant milestone events pushing the story forward with the murder of Joffrey and the siege of Meereen.

This season ... talking about grave threats with no urgency, walking from place to place without a real plan and in the case of Dany, sitting in a pyramid. So much for the world domination plan that kept her on the move for three seasons. She has the men, the dragons, the ships and the resources now but just sits around with no thought of moving forward.


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post #6664 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
No that is not what happens every season as I pointed out before. In past seasons characters had clear goals and were working towards specific events driving the story forward with increasing consequences. Escape, revenge, in the middle of a war, acquiring allies etc.

This time last season we already had two significant milestone events pushing the story forward with the murder of Joffrey and the siege of Meereen.

This season ... talking about grave threats with no urgency, walking from place to place without a real plan and in the case of Dany, sitting in a pyramid. So much for the world domination plan that kept her on the move for three seasons. She has the men, the dragons, the ships and the resources now but just sits around with no thought of moving forward.

Stannis with his army going to take Winterfell
Jon going to meet the wildling army to attempt a truce
Tyrion on his way to meet Danny whom is in great need of someone familiar and skilled in the political side of things.
Arya in training with the faceless men
The Sparrows sparking a religious revolution.

It seems we have a number of grave threats and "bullet points" we are leading to.

Did you forget the talks she had about moving forward? People have urged this already, but she does not want to leave only to have the area fall back to what it was. Also think of this time as "training wheels" for Danny. She even knows herself that if she can't rule here how can she ever expect to rule there.

It seems maybe that because of the way the story is this season, people just don't know what is going to happen and that is leading to what seems like floundering. I'm still enjoying the journey however and can see breadcrumbs being laid for future events.



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post #6665 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 09:19 AM
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Oh, based on little bits and pieces that some post, I think you'd be surprised the number of folks that have read .. but, they are careful, very careful .. I could cite several instances just since yesterdays episode ..


Earlier on, I posted some negative thoughts about this season and was taken to task by some .. so far, I still believe it has been underwhelming, regardless of any "big buildup" .. don't get me wrong, I still love the show, but I will tell you, and it spoils nothing, the source material got pretty boring as well ..

Seems like the House of Black and White would be better in book form. The set is nice and all but I could see how imagination and lots of time and words could help. Feels a little forced at this point.
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post #6666 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 09:20 AM
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I have a feeling Reek may be Ramsey's undoing. He looked almost ready to act when the scene faded to black at the end.

I hope so. Sic 'em Reek! Sic 'em!
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post #6667 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Stannis with his army going to take Winterfell
Jon going to meet the wildling army to attempt a truce
Tyrion on his way to meet Danny whom is in great need of someone familiar and skilled in the political side of things.
Arya in training with the faceless men
The Sparrows sparking a religious revolution.

It seems we have a number of grave threats and "bullet points" we are leading to.

Did you forget the talks she had about moving forward? People have urged this already, but she does not want to leave only to have the area fall back to what it was. Also think of this time as "training wheels" for Danny.
And as I keep saying, none of those story threads are dealt with as if they were important. The characters talk about them while casually walking around as if it's just something they can get to after lunch.

When Stannis left Black to "beat the winter" he couldn't have looked like he was going any slower. I'm surprised if his army wasn't still in bed because from what we saw of them this season, they had nothing to do and did it with aplomb.

Dany is sitting in her pyramid holding court and dragon spotting. Do we see her making rapid plans for conquest, delegating, assembling her armies, barking orders and having her generals whipping the city into shape? No, she just kind of sits there and occasionally tells someone "maybe we should send out more patrols" and goes back to sitting until something else screws up. "Dear diary, I forgot I was planning to rule the Seven Kingdoms again. Need to do something about that tomorrow. Or at the weekend. I wonder if my army is still here?"

Tyrion is walking. And talking. His entire character motivation this season is just to talk to Dany. Which means he has been relegated from one of the best characters to someone hiking. All for the promise of a discussion. Even if they meet this season the payoff will only be talking about doing something that will not hapoen this season.

Snow is now commander of The Wall and an army of the sorcerous undead is bearing down on them. Or maybe they are just having a nap, because that threat which we saw often for three seasons is non-existent now. And if Snow is rushing off to get reinforcements he is following Stannis' lead too closely because he seems to be dealing with that with no due haste.

Meanwhile in King's Landing a character nobody really cares about is on trial by the religious police while Cersei gets drunk and smirks a lot. If I felt like Margaery was in any danger I might have a vested interest, but even if she is executed the threat to her life has not been given any dramatic build up. So I am ambivalent about her outcome.


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post #6668 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 09:26 AM
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Side note, I want nothing more than a spin-off of GOT where Tyrion and Jorah just sail around the world solving mysteries and bantering among each other. Throw in Bronn too and you're talking Emmy material!
True Detective, season three.
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post #6669 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 10:18 AM
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Meanwhile in King's Landing a character nobody really cares about is on trial by the religious police while Cersei gets drunk and smirks a lot. If I felt like Margaery was in any danger I might have a vested interest, but even if she is executed the threat to her life has not been given any dramatic build up. So I am ambivalent about her outcome.
I suspect that this is going to get more interesting. I keep thinking that Cersei is seriously playing with fire in letting the zealots have so much power. If the Tyrell women catch a whiff of Cersei's history with Jaime, she could be the next major character to leave the show.
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post #6670 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 10:19 AM
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I will say that the Sand Snake battle was the weakest point of the episode for me as well. I think the choreography of the fight was "off" and seemed awkward. The guard however is not a sand snake, and we really didn't get to see him in action. His weapon of choice however seems to be "slow" compared to the sword play we get from the westeros realm.


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His weapon is probably based on a wushu Kwan Dao. A heavy chinese halberd.

It's meant as a weapon to be wielded by someone strong, like a war hammer or large axe, but with reach that makes it effective against people on horses as well as on the ground. Meant for heavy penetration.

The Japanese naginata is a lighter version, more like a fighting spear.

I've seen it used, and while slower, it has reach and makes it hard to cover ground against it, since you have to get out of the way when that heavy blade comes a'callin.
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post #6671 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 10:30 AM
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I suspect that this is going to get more interesting. I keep thinking that Cersei is seriously playing with fire in letting the zealots have so much power. If the Tyrell women catch a whiff of Cersei's history with Jaime, she could be the next major character to leave the show.

She knows of their history BUT there is no real proof. What COULD be the trouble is that Her cousin (whom she did have relations with) is now part of the Sparrows. If that were to come to light Cersi would herself be put to trial. I don't think Cersi realizes just how devious she can be. The Tyrells are the sole reason they have the power in Kings Landing that they do.


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post #6672 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 10:44 AM
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The show spares Brienne from being raped but not Sansa.

Brutal!
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post #6673 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 11:17 AM
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It was that the fight was too obviously not a fight, but a dance. Whether because of insufficient rehearsal or a lack of ability on the part of the participants, you could almost see them counting off the moves in their heads as they made them. "Spin, lunge, thrust, wait, parry, pause 1, 2, 3, jump..." while someone counted the beats off-camera.
https://i.imgur.com/UPcmC7b.gifv
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post #6674 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 11:21 AM
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I suspect that this is going to get more interesting. I keep thinking that Cersei is seriously playing with fire in letting the zealots have so much power. If the Tyrell women catch a whiff of Cersei's history with Jaime, she could be the next major character to leave the show.
Looks obvious - never a good idea to mess with Queen of Thorns
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post #6675 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 11:52 AM
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No that is not what happens every season as I pointed out before. In past seasons characters had clear goals and were working towards specific events driving the story forward with increasing consequences. Escape, revenge, in the middle of a war, acquiring allies etc.

This time last season we already had two significant milestone events pushing the story forward with the murder of Joffrey and the siege of Meereen.

This season ... talking about grave threats with no urgency, walking from place to place without a real plan and in the case of Dany, sitting in a pyramid. So much for the world domination plan that kept her on the move for three seasons. She has the men, the dragons, the ships and the resources now but just sits around with no thought of moving forward.
It reminds me of season 1. Seems every storyline started anew and so far it's all foundation laying. I'm sure there will be a payoff in a string of eps soon.
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post #6676 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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Agree, the fight scene was horrible. Especially after being spoiled with such a great one last season with the Viper/Mountain duel.

I read a review on the latest episode this morning which was referring on how this episode sort of destroyed all of the character building Sansa had been given since she arrived at the Vale, only to be torn down by Ramsay. Was pretty similar to what I thought. All of that growth and strength just vanished. Was interesting how that "scene" happened in the book, just not with Sansa. I know the show just likes to go over the top whenever they can, even as far as Game of Thrones standards goes, but that change was disappointing. I guess with also changing the story so that Brienne is there too they give an opening for revenge and slaughter in the episodes to come. Even if she does come to save the day, I am hoping they have Sansa or Theon kill Ramsay in some rediculous way... maybe feed him to the dogs too? hah! Now that they are "off the pages" of the story this much anything can happen so no one really knows.

EDIT: Sorry for mentioning the books, just noticed there are two threads here, but did keep it spoiler free.

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post #6677 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 12:44 PM
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one thing I never understood was the White Walkers...in Season 2 they seemed to be not too far away from The Wall (when Sam saw that large group of White Walkers and the undead army)...what are they waiting for?...are they circling Westeros for any particular reason?...seems like they could attack any time but they are choosing to wait...do they need more Undead to increase their numbers?
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post #6678 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 12:51 PM
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one thing I never understood was the White Walkers...in Season 2 they seemed to be not too far away from The Wall (when Sam saw that large group of White Walkers and the undead army)...what are they waiting for?...are they circling Westeros for any particular reason?...seems like they could attack any time but they are choosing to wait...do they need more Undead to increase their numbers?
You know what they say... "Winter was coming, now it is just delayed due to climate change".
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post #6679 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 12:53 PM
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^^^^^ my guess is that they are Snow Birds and waiting for their vacation season to end before coming back to complete the march to Westeros.
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post #6680 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:06 PM
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Sand Snakes = Gyrrlll Power!! Not. They just looked dumb from start to finish. I'm glad that they didn't have an impact. I don't know why, but I thought that the Sand Snakes had an Army, and were were just seeing the officers. Now I'm guessing that they are just those four women.
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That was in my opinion the worst episode of the season. Boring and flat. The Sand Snake battle was so 'weak'. All that build up on 'do you still know how to use that axe?" and all he does is walk up and threaten people? I found the Snakes as threatening as a bad cold.
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I will say that the Sand Snake battle was the weakest point of the episode for me as well. I think the choreography of the fight was "off" and seemed awkward.
Have to agree completely. After the fight that we saw between their father and the mountain, this was completely weak.

They need a good choreographer or Ang Lee as director to handle their fight scenes. Best women martial artists fighting scene in my opinion is round #2 between Zhang Ziyi and Michelle Yeoh in "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon".

I would also take the fight between Michelle Rodriguez and Elsa Pataki in Furious 6. Of course three out of those four are actual martial artists. They should have done better.
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post #6681 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:06 PM
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one thing I never understood was the White Walkers...in Season 2 they seemed to be not too far away from The Wall (when Sam saw that large group of White Walkers and the undead army)...what are they waiting for?...are they circling Westeros for any particular reason?...seems like they could attack any time but they are choosing to wait...do they need more Undead to increase their numbers?

They are moving very slowly. I'm not sure of Sam's actual location, but I "think" I know where abouts they were. The distance is much farther than the show made it seem. Also, they need to get through the wall 1st. With how slow they are moving, it will probably take much longer than it took living humans to make it back. The only folks they could really attack in any sort of manner are the Wildling army since they are on the wrong side. It would be a good cliffhanger for next season to have them at "the door" or use magic to start their way through. The Wall itself is HUGE and finding weaknesses of hole to travel through is not "easy". If the WW army was going "around" it could take months if not more to make the journey.


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post #6682 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:11 PM
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the Sand Snakes look like they belong on Xena: Warrior Princess and not GoT...for a show with a nearly perfect record when it comes to casting actors this one was a huge miss...none of them have any charisma or real acting abilities (the youngest one with the double daggers has the most potential)...I'm guessing the reason we haven't seen much of them or Dorne this season is because the producers saw this as well but it was too late to recast and train new actors so they went with what they had...they were hyping Dorne up so much in the build up to Season 5 but Dorne has been severely cut back from what I was expecting...
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post #6683 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:17 PM
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Agree, the fight scene was horrible. Especially after being spoiled with such a great one last season with the Viper/Mountain duel.

I read a review on the latest episode this morning which was referring on how this episode sort of destroyed all of the character building Sansa had been given since she arrived at the Vale, only to be torn down by Ramsay. Was pretty similar to what I thought. All of that growth and strength just vanished. Was interesting how that "scene" happened in the book, just not with Sansa. I know the show just likes to go over the top whenever they can, even as far as Game of Thrones standards goes, but that change was disappointing. I guess with also changing the story so that Brienne is there too they give an opening for revenge and slaughter in the episodes to come. Even if she does come to save the day, I am hoping they have Sansa or Theon kill Ramsay in some rediculous way... maybe feed him to the dogs too? hah! Now that they are "off the pages" of the story this much anything can happen so no one really knows.

EDIT: Sorry for mentioning the books, just noticed there are two threads here, but did keep it spoiler free.

I think I know what Review you are referring to,'although I read a "counter" to that and actually agree with that one more. This was standard SOP for GoT, the classic battle of good and evil that the show has been giving us since season 1. Was there really anything else that could be done without very harsh consequences? I think not, Sansa may have weighed her options and decided that this was the only way to survive and reach her goal of revenge. It was Cersi whom counseled her to use her sexuality as a tool of power. Remember Jamie basically counseled Brienne into doing exactly what Sansa did in that same situation.
Let's break it down, Theon kills Ramsey, they get found and both Theon and Sansa are dead. Sansa finds a way to kill Ramsey before it happens, again both she and Theon would die. Ramsey wouldn't be Ramsey if that scene didn't happen the way it did. All of the character building they had done with him would have gone to waste. He is a truly twisted character and that scene played it basically the only way it could.

If what I am thinking (Sansa "allowed" this to happen, which from her actions it seems she did) she may have not lost anything and instead acted more towards her new character traits than her old.


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post #6684 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:26 PM
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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion

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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
the Sand Snakes look like they belong on Xena: Warrior Princess and not GoT...for a show with a nearly perfect record when it comes to casting actors this one was a huge miss...none of them have any charisma or real acting abilities (the youngest one with the double daggers has the most potential)...I'm guessing the reason we haven't seen much of them or Dorne this season is because the producers saw this as well but it was too late to recast and train new actors so they went with what they had...they were hyping Dorne up so much in the build up to Season 5 but Dorne has been severely cut back from what I was expecting...

We still have 4 episodes left for Dorne to expand. We often get thrown off with GoT because of these quick glances. Often we are turned later on because of storyline suet to be revealed. let's look at Sansa she got A LOT of hate for the 1st few seasons, now everyone has empathy and there is a big dust up over that last scene. People are now rooting for her to succeed.

These Sand Snakes are warriors so I think they are acted the part. They remind me much of the Unsullied who act very much the same way.


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post #6685 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:29 PM
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Yeah I got really angry at that rape scene. Yeah I know it's a show ,: but the amount of pain and the manner of it I would inflict on Ramsey would redefine the word "medieval" .

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post #6686 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:34 PM
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They showed a day in the life of GoT S5 where they were shown setting up the logistics to film in Croatia as well as Seville on the same day.

Besides the Alcazar gardens that they've shown already (which they're calling the water gardens of Dorne), they will also show scenes at the Plaza d'Espana, which is a bit off the beaten track from the most popular attractions in Seville.

There will be some kind of big battle scene filmed there, making it look like it's some big arena. They'd have been better off using one of the bullfighting rings, though it would not be as scenic.
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post #6687 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 01:38 PM
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They showed a day in the life of GoT S5 where they were shown setting up the logistics to film in Croatia as well as Seville on the same day.

Besides the Alcazar gardens that they've shown already (which they're calling the water gardens of Dorne), they will also show scenes at the Plaza d'Espana, which is a bit off the beaten track from the most popular attractions in Seville.

There will be some kind of big battle scene filmed there, making it look like it's some big arena. They'd have been better off using one of the bullfighting rings, though it would not be as scenic.
they did film a major scene for Season 5 in a bullring in Osuna, Spain
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post #6688 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 04:55 PM
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I think I know what Review you are referring to,'although I read a "counter" to that and actually agree with that one more. This was standard SOP for GoT, the classic battle of good and evil that the show has been giving us since season 1. Was there really anything else that could be done without very harsh consequences? I think not, Sansa may have weighed her options and decided that this was the only way to survive and reach her goal of revenge. It was Cersi whom counseled her to use her sexuality as a tool of power. Remember Jamie basically counseled Brienne into doing exactly what Sansa did in that same situation.
Let's break it down, Theon kills Ramsey, they get found and both Theon and Sansa are dead. Sansa finds a way to kill Ramsey before it happens, again both she and Theon would die. Ramsey wouldn't be Ramsey if that scene didn't happen the way it did. All of the character building they had done with him would have gone to waste. He is a truly twisted character and that scene played it basically the only way it could.

If what I am thinking (Sansa "allowed" this to happen, which from her actions it seems she did) she may have not lost anything and instead acted more towards her new character traits than her old.


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I can't see Theon killing anything at this point, he is just to bet down. I keep thinking about what the old lady told Sansa about putting a light in the old tower window. I have a hunch that it brings more then just Beinne, and both of the Boltons are killed. Cut the head of that snack and there is not a leader to take over, unless the Dreadfort host and officers follow Sansa Stark. Do not forget that there is a bigger and better Army bering down on Winterfell with the best leader in Westeros in command. If they follow Sansa and she is more then familiar with Stannis Baratheon, like family maybe, she opens the gates of Winterfell, then Stannis Baratheon's Army is joined with the Dreadfort host. That would make Sansa the Warden of the North for Stannis. Now the rest of the north falls in line and follows the pre war of five kings alliances with only the King's Landing Baratheon's and the Lannister's to oppose a Stannis crown. The Tyrell's set this one out also and Freys become much fewer in number. Whats left, the Martell's and Petyr Baelish. Petyr goes with the wind, Stannis my not like that and take s few fingers to make a point.
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post #6689 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil17108 View Post
I can't see Theon killing anything at this point, he is just to bet down. I keep thinking about what the old lady told Sansa about putting a light in the old tower window. I have a hunch that it brings more then just Beinne, and both of the Boltons are killed. Cut the head of that snack and there is not a leader to take over, unless the Dreadfort host and officers follow Sansa Stark. Do not forget that there is a bigger and better Army bering down on Winterfell with the best leader in Westeros in command. If they follow Sansa and she is more then familiar with Stannis Baratheon, like family maybe, she opens the gates of Winterfell, then Stannis Baratheon's Army is joined with the Dreadfort host. That would make Sansa the Warden of the North for Stannis. Now the rest of the north falls in line and follows the pre war of five kings alliances with only the King's Landing Baratheon's and the Lannister's to oppose a Stannis crown. The Tyrell's set this one out also and Freys become much fewer in number. Whats left, the Martell's and Petyr Baelish. Petyr goes with the wind, Stannis my not like that and take s few fingers to make a point.

Personally I think we are seeing Theon start to break through. He has been so beaten that it will not happen overnight though. Brienne and Pod are at her call as well. Sansa would be Wardeness of the North it will be an interesting ride regardless and I look forward to see what the creators do.


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post #6690 of 7777 Old 05-18-2015, 07:18 PM
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I don't see Theon killing anything, I can see him and Sansa sneaking off and running away on yet another one of those multi season, two person travel odysseys GOT is famous for. It's also being set up for Stannis and his small army to get washed trying to take Winterfell. Why else would they keep alluding to his small number of forces. Plus there are never any happy rescues in this show
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