'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 235 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7021 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Yrd View Post
I find myself asking the same question, on different shows, you are answering here. I answer my own question this way:

This, and pretty much any media, is a story about important events. We are seeing the worthwhile elements of the story. Why not show the parts where they sailed over and nothing happened except sleeping and sh**ing? Because we want the exciting parts. If nothing happened at hardhome we wouldn't see it.
No, my point was it was a little to convenient they attack within hours of the Crows arrival. They could have made it much more believable with 2 seconds of dialogue. At the end of the meeting with the elders Torrmund say "Think it over and those that want to live, we will be leaving tomorrow at noon." Then cut to noon tomorrow and have the same insane battle go down.
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post #7022 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 12:07 PM
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Did everyone else see it that way? My memory is that the undead poured over the cliff and lay completely still in a huge pile of rotting flesh for a bit and then seemed to wake up suddenly and attack. We have not yet established the "Zombie Rules" for killing the undead in GOT. Obviously burning the bodies will do the trick, but it seemed that many of the undead were killed in the battle. Jon cut a bag of bones in two with his sword. I don't see that one coming back. Others had their heads cut off or crushed. I didn't notice any headless undead attacking. There was that one dude still attacking with an arrow in his head.

There was a brief moment of suspense between when they landed and got up again, but it wasn't that long. We don't know the rules for the wights outside of fire. They may actually rise again unless burned. What stuck me was no one thought to set the wall on fire, this would have temporarily stopped those on that side since wights can't go through.


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post #7023 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 12:11 PM
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anyone know how many Wildlings were staying at Hardhome?...I forget where I read it but think it said that 100,000 Wildlings were there...and since Jon mentioned that 5000 were on the boats, 95,000 decided to stay behind (before the Walkers attacked)???...seems like a high number that wouldn't take Jon's offer...any book readers or otherwise know the numbers
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post #7024 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Viventis View Post
Did everyone else see it that way? My memory is that the undead poured over the cliff and lay completely still in a huge pile of rotting flesh for a bit and then seemed to wake up suddenly and attack. We have not yet established the "Zombie Rules" for killing the undead in GOT. Obviously burning the bodies will do the trick, but it seemed that many of the undead were killed in the battle. Jon cut a bag of bones in two with his sword. I don't see that one coming back. Others had their heads cut off or crushed. I didn't notice any headless undead attacking. There was that one dude still attacking with an arrow in his head.

if they thought they were going to die then they wouldn't have all hurdled over that cliff...they knew that it was the fastest way down and that they couldn't be killed from the fall...otherwise it would have been a mass suicide
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post #7025 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
anyone know how many Wildlings were staying at Hardhome?...I forget where I read it but think it said that 100,000 Wildlings were there...and since Jon mentioned that 5000 were on the boats, 95,000 decided to stay behind (before the Walkers attacked)???...seems like a high number that wouldn't take Jon's offer...any book readers or otherwise know the numbers

100,000 was the original army. We don't know how many died in the attack on Castle Black or how many moved to Hardhome.

If you want book reader info there is a separate thread for that


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post #7026 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 01:11 PM
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I think it was pretty sound advice. She let Jorah live after he conspired to kill her.

Tyrion sees the situation - someone who helped plots to assassinate her. He was a trusted advisor and had many opportunities to tell her what had happened and take the consequences.

He didn't.

Tyrion sees this, asks explicitly whether he had those opportunities, sees Jorah's devotion to her but also his inability to trust her to that extent.

So he sees exactly what Daenerys saw when it all came out. He also sees that she believes she can't trust Jorah and comes to the same conclusion. It was a test of his abilities by Daenerys. If he had counseled clemency, she probably would have executed Tyrion, since she had no ties to him like she did Jorah.

Tyrion gave good advice, which is why he was alive to have the later conversation with her. As Tyrion said, she's terrible.... just what kind?
He didn't conspire to kill her or help plot to assasinate her. He spied on her and reported back. Nothing more. He had no say in what was decided to be done with that information...though he stopped it when he found out.

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post #7027 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
No, my point was it was a little to convenient they attack within hours of the Crows arrival. They could have made it much more believable with 2 seconds of dialogue. At the end of the meeting with the elders Torrmund say "Think it over and those that want to live, we will be leaving tomorrow at noon." Then cut to noon tomorrow and have the same insane battle go down.
Maybe the White Walkers attacked because they saw the Wildlings attempting to leave? They had to act then if they wanted to stop them and build their army.

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post #7028 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
No, my point was it was a little to convenient they attack within hours of the Crows arrival. They could have made it much more believable with 2 seconds of dialogue. At the end of the meeting with the elders Torrmund say "Think it over and those that want to live, we will be leaving tomorrow at noon." Then cut to noon tomorrow and have the same insane battle go down.
We don't know much about the wight walkers, so it's completely possible that they have some way of seeing the future just like the red priests. So they knew that a rescue attempt was coming.
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post #7029 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 02:03 PM
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just read this on another site and thought it was funny yet true...We learn that Valyrian steel is as good as dragon glass at killing the Others, which means that characters with named weapons are more or less holding the lightsabers of this series...Jon with Longclaw, Brienne with Oathkeeper and Tommen with the other half of Ice (Joffrey's Valyrian sword)

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post #7030 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 02:26 PM
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The swords that Brienne and Tommen hold may very well no longer be Valyrian Steel. Melting down, and re-forging steel changes it. I would be surprised if the characteristics were still the same.
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post #7031 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 02:30 PM
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Not all named weapons are Valyrian steel. Arya's Needle for example. And not all Valyrian blades have names, like Littlefinger's dagger that was used to attack Bran in season 1.

Regardless of having a name or not, Valyrian steel (tempered by dragon fire and rippled by the process of making it), seems to be just as good as Dragon Glass for killing White Walkers (or is it Wight Walkers?)
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post #7032 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 03:02 PM
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Not all named weapons are Valyrian steel. Arya's Needle for example. And not all Valyrian blades have names, like Littlefinger's dagger that was used to attack Bran in season 1.

Regardless of having a name or not, Valyrian steel (tempered by dragon fire and rippled by the process of making it), seems to be just as good as Dragon Glass for killing White Walkers (or is it Wight Walkers?)

White Walkers (lieutenants). Wights (undead soldiers) and the "kings" (generals). I only say "kings" because there were 4 on the cliff and multiple when they changed the baby in a previous season. Right now though we've only seen 1 up close.


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post #7033 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by John dhein View Post
The swords that Brienne and Tommen hold may very well no longer be Valyrian Steel. Melting down, and re-forging steel changes it. I would be surprised if the characteristics were still the same.
Go back to episode 1 of I think Season 4 when Tywin Lannister brought in forgers that could recast and rework the steel and save its properties that give it its strength.
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post #7034 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 03:53 PM
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White Walkers (lieutenants). Wights (undead soldiers) and the "kings" (generals). I only say "kings" because there were 4 on the cliff and multiple when they changed the baby in a previous season. Right now though we've only seen 1 up close.


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We saw (up close) the one who Jon killed and the short haired arm raising one too, yes? Plus the one Samwell saw when he was lost behind the wall. And the one Sam killed. Or do I have my w(h)ights crossed up?

They need uniforms or something.
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post #7035 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 03:55 PM
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White Walkers (lieutenants). Wights (undead soldiers) and the "kings" (generals). I only say "kings" because there were 4 on the cliff and multiple when they changed the baby in a previous season. Right now though we've only seen 1 up close.


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Wasn't it 2. The one Jon Snow "killed" and the King with the ice crown.
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post #7036 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 04:05 PM
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Go back to episode 1 of I think Season 4 when Tywin Lannister brought in forgers that could recast and rework the steel and save its properties that give it its strength.
I remember. Doesn't mean he was right.
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post #7037 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 04:21 PM
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We saw (up close) the one who Jon killed and the short haired arm raising one too, yes? Plus the one Samwell saw when he was lost behind the wall. And the one Sam killed. Or do I have my w(h)ights crossed up?

They need uniforms or something.


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Wasn't it 2. The one Jon Snow "killed" and the King with the ice crown.

The lieutenants are the long hair ones and I believe there are more than one. These are White Walkers and a step above the Wights (undead). Actually we know there is more than one due to Sam killing one and Jon killing one.

There were 4 on the cliff watching the battle, they focused on the Night King however. We also saw him back when Craster's son was brought north.

Up close we've seen Sam's long hair version in the storm, The one Sam Killed with dragon glass, the one whom Jon killed and the King.


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post #7038 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 04:25 PM
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I'd love to see a featurette on the making of the battle scenes in this episode, showing the real terrain and stages/sets and weather without all the added CG effects. And how many actors were really present.

There you have it
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post #7039 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 04:28 PM
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Was just about to post that


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post #7040 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 05:26 PM
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if they thought they were going to die then they wouldn't have all hurdled over that cliff...they knew that it was the fastest way down and that they couldn't be killed from the fall...otherwise it would have been a mass suicide
They freaking zombies. What do they care. The giant stomped and tore apart several, so they are not physically indestructible.

I think it would've been cooler if they'd jumped to their death and their corpses piled up until their comrades could run down the cliff.
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post #7041 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 05:39 PM
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After a season of walking and talking with some of the dullest characters and lethargic storylines, this episode was already on to a good thing by giving Arya something to do in her mysterious guild and allowing Tyrion to do what he does best with someone of importance.

Even Snow's meeting with the Wildlings was interesting progression and finally establishing that the army of the dead was a threat of some urgency. Then the ending happened ...

it doesn't alleviate the foot dragging of the previous episodes but it sure was one of the best moments of the entire series in every possible way. With only two episodes left I hope escalation is the direction and they don't waste momentum.


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post #7042 of 7777 Old 06-02-2015, 08:13 PM
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No, my point was it was a little to convenient they attack within hours of the Crows arrival. They could have made it much more believable with 2 seconds of dialogue. At the end of the meeting with the elders Torrmund say "Think it over and those that want to live, we will be leaving tomorrow at noon." Then cut to noon tomorrow and have the same insane battle go down.
Let's not act like the time they were meeting with the elders and the time they had loaded up those ships with 5000 wildlings, kids, supplies, elderly, etc. happened in an instant. It took time for the elders to go talk to all their clans, gather them up, gather the supplies for the trip, help the elderly and kids get on the ships, etc. etc. It seemed to me that it was many hours later before they were attacked.

"Think it over, wait until tomorrow" is dialogue that makes it seem that the situation is not really dire at all. It calms down the tension and is also a more boring tone that has never fit this show. Just my opinion. But to break the tension build up, from the wildlings who didn't want to go n wanted Jon Snow dead, with a "sleep on it, we'll talk after breakfast", after a calming, quiet sleep. Then start from the bottom and have to build up the tension from zero with the dogs barking is not good writing and a wasted opportunity. Glad it was the way it was.
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post #7043 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 12:44 AM
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After a season of walking and talking with some of the dullest characters and lethargic storylines, this episode was already on to a good thing by giving Arya something to do in her mysterious guild and allowing Tyrion to do what he does best with someone of importance.

Even Snow's meeting with the Wildlings was interesting progression and finally establishing that the army of the dead was a threat of some urgency. Then the ending happened ...

it doesn't alleviate the foot dragging of the previous episodes but it sure was one of the best moments of the entire series in every possible way. With only two episodes left I hope escalation is the direction and they don't waste momentum.

besides Dorne I was most disappointed in Arya's storyline this season...she's one of my favorite characters so I was expecting more once she reached Braavos...all season long all she's done is stay inside that incredibly dark House of Black and White and do basically nothing of note...now I can see why they decided to shelve Bran this season because his training would probably be even more boring...might have been better to shelve Arya as well for a season (even though fans would be more upset with this versus Bran)...Arya's story has finally improved now that she got her first assassination mission but will it be enough to salvage her season long disappointment?...how about a Syrio Forel cameo?

another thing that got me thinking...are these Faceless Men meant to be good guys or villain's?...they seem more like villains now...killing people just because they might be bad people doesn't make it right
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post #7044 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 01:00 AM
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another thing that got me thinking...are these Faceless Men meant to be good guys or villain's?...they seem more like villains now...killing people just because they might be bad people doesn't make it right
They are assassins for pay. "Good people" is not how I'd describe them.
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post #7045 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 03:59 AM
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When ice Darth maul was raising his arms I was expecting him to do some crazy magic like freezing the ocean or something. Since it was taking so long for anything to happen.
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post #7046 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 04:19 AM
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They probably don't have ship builders which they need. You need experienced ship builders and sailors to do something like that. As far as we know all of the free folk are "land" people.


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In the hundreds and hundreds of years since they have been there, no one practiced, learned, tried, perfected it? The first ship builders in any culture did not go to school to be ship builders, they practiced, learned, tried it. They have been there for generations upon generations.

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besides Dorne I was most disappointed in Arya's storyline this season...she's one of my favorite characters so I was expecting more once she reached Braavos...all season long all she's done is stay inside that incredibly dark House of Black and White and do basically nothing of note...now I can see why they decided to shelve Bran this season because his training would probably be even more boring...might have been better to shelve Arya as well for a season (even though fans would be more upset with this versus Bran)...Arya's story has finally improved now that she got her first assassination mission but will it be enough to salvage her season long disappointment?...how about a Syrio Forel cameo?

another thing that got me thinking...are these Faceless Men meant to be good guys or villain's?...they seem more like villains now...killing people just because they might be bad people doesn't make it right
They are good guys, as far as I am concerned. The gambler, who fails to pay the debt to the family of a wagerer is the type of payback, is due some retribution. If the law doesn't, then the Faceless men can provide it. I miss Arya reciting those she will kill as payback. I guess in her new persona, she cannot harbor personal grudges, but imagine she may become a new free agent and do as she pleases. BTW, is the kingsguard that has accompanied the Tyrell, Master of Coin, the same one that killed Syrio Forel? He should be on her list, as well.
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post #7048 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 04:44 AM
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In the hundreds and hundreds of years since they have been there, no one practiced, learned, tried, perfected it? The first ship builders in any culture did not go to school to be ship builders, they practiced, learned, tried it. They have been there for generations upon generations.
And, I would expect fishing to be a major source of food for those thousands of people.....

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post #7049 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 06:41 AM
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Enter the Dragons?

I haven't read but one of the books, and this wasn't covered it that, so this is not a spoiler; just my speculation. After the Hardhome battle, I think I've figured out, probably along with the rest of you, how this is going to play out, i.e., after the Wites, et. al., make it over the Wall, followed by another, even bigger, massacre, Daenerys and the dragons with save them. I just hope she's riding one of them. If anyone knows if this is true, please don't tell me. I'm not reading the other books because the one I read definitely spoiled some of season 2 for me. I just wonder if anyone else shares my speculation. Or, maybe I shouldn't even be asking this.

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post #7050 of 7777 Old 06-03-2015, 07:16 AM
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In the hundreds and hundreds of years since they have been there, no one practiced, learned, tried, perfected it? The first ship builders in any culture did not go to school to be ship builders, they practiced, learned, tried it. They have been there for generations upon generations.


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And, I would expect fishing to be a major source of food for those thousands of people.....

*shrug* was just giving one explanation for why...I don't know why actually they didn't. While I would expect fishing ships, those don't need to be that big. Again I'm just throwing things out there. It's not one of the details I have seen discussed a lot.


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