'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 238 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7111 of 7777 Old 06-04-2015, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
My $0.02. I think the WW's have had enough of the Wildlings encroaching on their space. The Wall, in my opinion, is a "line in the sand" separating what the WW's felt was their territory (by an ages old agreement?) and the humans. They built up their armies by killing the "encroachers" and now is the time to either take back what was theirs or just eliminate the humans altogether. Quite possibly the WW's were forced into an agreement of sorts for what ever reason because of dragons. Now that dragons don't exist anymore........
And then again....

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post #7112 of 7777 Old 06-04-2015, 05:25 PM
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This current talk about the failed attack over the wall or not having built boats to escape the North makes me think of a third option. For all I know this might have been addressed in the books, but what about where the wall meets the sea on the Eastern or Western coasts. I would assume the wall sort of peters out to where the Wildings could walk or wade around the width of the wall. Even if there are Knight's Watch garrisons on the coast they are probably nowhere near the strength of Castle Black.
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post #7113 of 7777 Old 06-04-2015, 10:26 PM
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This current talk about the failed attack over the wall or not having built boats to escape the North makes me think of a third option. For all I know this might have been addressed in the books, but what about where the wall meets the sea on the Eastern or Western coasts. I would assume the wall sort of peters out to where the Wildings could walk or wade around the width of the wall. Even if there are Knight's Watch garrisons on the coast they are probably nowhere near the strength of Castle Black.
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post #7114 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 04:12 AM
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But they had no motivation to leave generations ago. They lived and seemingly thrived North of the Wall. And there were no White Walkers then creating armies of the undead hunting them, so why try to sail away and be hunted by the rest of Westeros on the high seas?
You mean they would rather live in an endless winter, scant resources, struggling to survive, sub zero temperatures all year long instead of lush open fields under the warm sun? Doubtful.

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post #7115 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 04:17 AM
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With the number of people they had it wouldn't be easy to hide. Where are they going to sail? "Sail out"? To the east and slavers bay? Farther east to Yunkai? You act as if there are a ton of choices that would cause a lot of trouble before they landed. People were free to go if they wanted they CHOSE to stay, the free folk have been going over the wall and invading northern lands for hundreds of years, yet they always go back. If your theory was "correct" the. Many would just go over and never come back. There are no free lands outside of north of the wall and they will bow to no one.

Just because you personally can't understand them living up north, doesn't mean they don't want to. We have many many many people living in frozen north type conditions and they have no desire to move to warmer climates.


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We don't have many many many people living in the frozen north. Even in Alaska they have gorgeous summers with warm temperatures, lush green landscapes, etc. Go further north where it is more similar to this show and there are only a few people living on research bases that rotate out do to extreme conditions.


If there are that many, then take over a small country or establish yourself somewhere else and start your kingdom where you don't interfere or cause problems but thrive. There are a TON of choices then just sailing to invade, attack, etc.


If that many people were constantly going over the wall then why did they make such a big deal about how climbing the wall was most likely suicide and almost impossible to do? Doubtful that many people were going over that often.

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post #7116 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 04:58 AM
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You mean they would rather live in an endless winter, scant resources, struggling to survive, sub zero temperatures all year long instead of lush open fields under the warm sun? Doubtful.
Live Free vs. Bend a Knee? Mance chose to burn alive rather than bend the knee. You think the promise of a little sun is going to make the Free Folk serve some Lord?

Not to mention how far South do they need to go to find "lush open fields under the warm sun"? Dorne? It's not like just South of the wall is subtropical. It's a long walk to anywhere remotely warm. But the main point is all locations South require servitude to a Lord and that's just not the Free Folks scene...
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post #7117 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
You mean they would rather live in an endless winter, scant resources, struggling to survive, sub zero temperatures all year long instead of lush open fields under the warm sun? Doubtful.
This doesn't really bother me... if there's one thing that the history of human migration has shown us, it's that we can basically live (and thrive) just about anywhere in the planet. Add the fictional elements of GoT to the mix, then they producers/writers basically have a cart blanche canvas upon which to do whatever they want
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post #7118 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
You mean they would rather live in an endless winter, scant resources, struggling to survive, sub zero temperatures all year long instead of lush open fields under the warm sun? Doubtful.

They ah e survived hundreds of years so "scant" is not something I would call their resources. The ONLY reason they are going south is because of the WW army. You are projecting your personal wants/needs on those of the people. You can't imagine people wanting to live in a northern climate. They have survived and thrived in this environment without much struggle. Not to mention this is fictional fantasy writing not real world.


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post #7119 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post
We don't have many many many people living in the frozen north. Even in Alaska they have gorgeous summers with warm temperatures, lush green landscapes, etc. Go further north where it is more similar to this show and there are only a few people living on research bases that rotate out do to extreme conditions.
A couple of years ago I visited northern mainland Nunavut (right at the top of Hudson Bay). There is snow from September to June, and summer rarely gets above 10 degrees C. There are no trees this far north - only artic "tundra" - moss and lichen, and small flowery plants that grow 6 inches at most during the short growing season.

I recall meeting someone who was from much further north - the northern part of Baffin Island - who didn't like it on the mainland because it was "too hot". So yes, people generally can adapt and be comfortable pretty much anywhere on this planet
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post #7120 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 08:00 AM
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A couple of years ago I visited northern mainland Nunavut (right at the top of Hudson Bay). There is snow from September to June, and summer rarely gets above 10 degrees C. There are no trees this far north - only artic "tundra" - moss and lichen, and small flowery plants that grow 6 inches at most during the short growing season.

I recall meeting someone who was from much further north - the northern part of Baffin Island - who didn't like it on the mainland because it was "too hot". So yes, people generally can adapt and be comfortable pretty much anywhere on this planet
Some of what we've seen of the North of the Wall area shows forests and vegetation .. some has been a bleak, cold, rocky landscape .. With total speculation, since I don't recall otherwise, the Free Folk are likely still hunters / gatherers, perhaps living a Nomadic lifestyle .. the Inuits may be a close example in the Modern World .. northern Canada supports a population, as does northern Russia ..

As a side note, many of the geographical / landmark creations we see in the show were based on Historical real life material .. Hadrian’s Wall, Great Wall of China ... Colossus of Rhodes / Braavos Harbor Statue .. etc ...

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post #7121 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 08:09 AM
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You mean they would rather live in an endless winter, scant resources, struggling to survive, sub zero temperatures all year long instead of lush open fields under the warm sun? Doubtful.
When the show first started I liked at Winterfell and thought burr. The North starts well south of the wall and there is a lot of distances to the warmer lands. The W.W. are going to bring winter with them were ever they go, I have always thought the wall was to keep the W.W. out and the wildlings just got stuck on the wrong side. Their culture has had what 998 Load Commanders (7000 years) to develop after the wall closed them out. There are other types of men that live in north that also were south of the wall but the First Men or is that Man killed them off.
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post #7122 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 02:51 PM
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Posted this in the other thread.

A lil off base'

But to the huge basketball fans in this thread after an epic episode last week and a very entertaining nba game 1, which one are you watching live on Sunday episode 9 or game 2?
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post #7123 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 03:14 PM
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I'll be watching episode 9 and will catch the rest of the game after. However, if the series goes into the GoT finale the following week, then it'll be a toss-up for sure!

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post #7124 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 03:28 PM
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post #7126 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 04:18 PM
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Posted this in the other thread.

A lil off base'

But to the huge basketball fans in this thread after an epic episode last week and a very entertaining nba game 1, which one are you watching live on Sunday episode 9 or game 2?

I DVR GoT, I'll be watching most likely after the game depending on how it starts.


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post #7127 of 7777 Old 06-05-2015, 08:32 PM
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But to the huge basketball fans in this thread after an epic episode last week and a very entertaining nba game 1, which one are you watching live on Sunday episode 9 or game 2?

I always DVR GoT and watch it later on that night...I like being able to rewind etc when watching it...always better to watch sports live...but the NBA Finals just got a lot less interesting with the news that Kyrie Irving is out for the rest of the Finals due to a fractured kneecap
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post #7128 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 08:53 AM
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Live Free vs. Bend a Knee? Mance chose to burn alive rather than bend the knee. You think the promise of a little sun is going to make the Free Folk serve some Lord?

Not to mention how far South do they need to go to find "lush open fields under the warm sun"? Dorne? It's not like just South of the wall is subtropical. It's a long walk to anywhere remotely warm. But the main point is all locations South require servitude to a Lord and that's just not the Free Folks scene...
Huh? If they sailed away to another land why would they need to bend the knee? You mean every inch of land everywhere is under someone's rule that they can't establish themselves, or even take over a small area and make it their own? They are incredible fighters and have thousands, more then some of these "armies" that are invading various other factions right now. They have enough to overthrow someone and make an area their own. Again, MANY possibilities then living in an area they obviously do not want to live in since they are trying to leave.

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post #7129 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 08:59 AM
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They ah e survived hundreds of years so "scant" is not something I would call their resources. The ONLY reason they are going south is because of the WW army. You are projecting your personal wants/needs on those of the people. You can't imagine people wanting to live in a northern climate. They have survived and thrived in this environment without much struggle. Not to mention this is fictional fantasy writing not real world.


Sent from nowhere
Sorry you are completely wrong. It has nothing to do with my personal wants and needs, it is exactly what the show has shown us over and over for many seasons now. They do NOT want to live up there, so much so they are throwing themselves at the wall and being slaughtered, they are suicide climbing the wall in a desperate hope they make it, they are launching an assault against the watch in hopes of winning, etc. etc. etc. They clearly do not want to be there as some of you have pointed out that they are thriving and adapting. If that is so, then why spend so much time and effort to breach the wall and leave? Because they don't want to be there. My point is, since the show has shown us time and again they want out of that area (be it the cold, the crazed white walkers or whatever) the fact is they sacrificed hundreds if not more desperately trying to leave. So since the show established it, my point is there are other alternatives then to throwing yourself at an almost impenetrable wall, sail away. They want to leave, the show showed us this, so do it a better way and make a better life for yourself, go around the wall, sail away from the wall.

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post #7130 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 09:04 AM
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Huh? If they sailed away to another land why would they need to bend the knee? You mean every inch of land everywhere is under someone's rule that they can't establish themselves, or even take over a small area and make it their own? They are incredible fighters and have thousands, more then some of these "armies" that are invading various other factions right now. They have enough to overthrow someone and make an area their own. Again, MANY possibilities then living in an area they obviously do not want to live in since they are trying to leave.
They are trying to leave because of the white walkers. Remove them, and they were happy where they were. They want to move for the same reason most migrations happen; pressure from a stronger/hungrier (or more desperate) group.
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post #7131 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 09:27 AM
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Sorry you are completely wrong. It has nothing to do with my personal wants and needs, it is exactly what the show has shown us over and over for many seasons now. They do NOT want to live up there, so much so they are throwing themselves at the wall and being slaughtered, they are suicide climbing the wall in a desperate hope they make it, they are launching an assault against the watch in hopes of winning, etc. etc. etc. They clearly do not want to be there as some of you have pointed out that they are thriving and adapting. If that is so, then why spend so much time and effort to breach the wall and leave? Because they don't want to be there. My point is, since the show has shown us time and again they want out of that area (be it the cold, the crazed white walkers or whatever) the fact is they sacrificed hundreds if not more desperately trying to leave. So since the show established it, my point is there are other alternatives then to throwing yourself at an almost impenetrable wall, sail away. They want to leave, the show showed us this, so do it a better way and make a better life for yourself, go around the wall, sail away from the wall.

The show has shown us time and time again? Ummmm no, I'm not sure what show you are watching but it isn't GoT. As it was said in the post above and a few of my posts the ONLY reason they are leaving now are the WW resurgence. Otherwise they would have stayed where they are at. I'm not sure how many different ways we can say this. Opening the tunnel at Castle Black was the best way for them to get south of the wall and away from the WW army. They have been scaling the wall for raiding parties for many many years, but guess what they don't stay south of the wall, they go back north once done. If your theory was correct anyone who made it across would stay south of the wall.

The wall itself goes from bay to bay, there are not many options for moving large amounts of people around or over it. This is why they use small specially trained people to go over the wall. The "better" life for them is the one they are living free from bending the knee.




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post #7132 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 09:31 AM
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Huh? If they sailed away to another land why would they need to bend the knee? You mean every inch of land everywhere is under someone's rule that they can't establish themselves, or even take over a small area and make it their own? They are incredible fighters and have thousands, more then some of these "armies" that are invading various other factions right now. They have enough to overthrow someone and make an area their own. Again, MANY possibilities then living in an area they obviously do not want to live in since they are trying to leave.

Please since you know so well what lands are free from control of others outside of the North? Of what we have seen in the show ALL lands are controlled by one house or another. Even the Great Plains that the Dothraki control they would be forced to bend to the leader. While they do have many people as we have seen in the past they are not trained via battle in the same way. They are not armored nor do they have cavalry. They could easily be taken by a "large" force of well trained warriors. We saw this already at castle black where they out numbered the crows, but still lost because of fortifications and the training of the other men.


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post #7133 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 11:30 AM
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Posted this in the other thread.

A lil off base'

But to the huge basketball fans in this thread after an epic episode last week and a very entertaining nba game 1, which one are you watching live on Sunday episode 9 or game 2?
Live sports always. Will watch GOT tonight after press conferences/interviews on NBA TV and sportscenter after the game.

Actually I haven't watched any tv show live since the advent of the dual tuner dvr in 2001. With DVR's these days with 6-15 tuners, forget it. If it's a show with commercials, no way I will ever watch live, ever.
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post #7134 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 11:47 AM
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I think it's been implied that the Wildlings have been trying to breach the Wall even before this current zombie army threat...the Walkers were extinct for thousands of years before this current rebirth...
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post #7135 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 12:02 PM
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I think it's been implied that the Wildlings have been trying to breach the Wall even before this current zombie army threat...the Walkers were extinct for thousands of years before this current rebirth...

They've been able to breach the wall before in small raiding parties. They haven't tried this massive if an attack however. The encroaching WW resurgence is what has motivated them to move and attempt to relocate south of the wall. Those both of the wall have been privy to the WW for many more years than the south of the wall have. Craster was "sacrificing" his sons for many many years.


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post #7136 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 01:19 PM
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What do the wildings live on? Seems like there are too many of them to be sustained by hunting and gathering in such a forbidding environment. The Eskimos do it, but they live in small groups and they send their elderly off to sea.

To have so many people, you need some kind of settlement and agriculture. Maybe there are lots of fish in those seas (and yet they have no seafaring tradition).
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post #7137 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 01:57 PM
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What do the wildings live on? Seems like there are too many of them to be sustained by hunting and gathering in such a forbidding environment. The Eskimos do it, but they live in small groups and they send their elderly off to sea.

To have so many people, you need some kind of settlement and agriculture. Maybe there are lots of fish in those seas (and yet they have no seafaring tradition).

Small fishing boats are expected. Not to mention the live game etc. they all don't live together and do separate I to smaller "clans" and even within clans I am sure they live in smaller groups. The North is BIG with lots of land to cover. I think sometimes we think things are smaller than they are because of the cuts between traveling between destinations. While the north is also colder, it was not always as barren as we have seen it (let's be honest we've only seen a very small portion anyways). Just because they haven't done transcontinental travel, doesn't mean they don't use any type of boat. We don't know much about the full traditions of the Wildlings and at this point I don't see the show getting into any details unless they serve the story some way.


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post #7138 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 02:32 PM
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What do the wildings live on? Seems like there are too many of them to be sustained by hunting and gathering in such a forbidding environment. The Eskimos do it, but they live in small groups and they send their elderly off to sea.

To have so many people, you need some kind of settlement and agriculture. Maybe there are lots of fish in those seas (and yet they have no seafaring tradition).
Remember it's a fictional story in a fictional land,no real need IMO to worry about stuff like that just enjoy the series YMMV
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post #7139 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 07:18 PM
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Out of respect for our West Coast brothers I shall but spoil anything. But damn...damn...damn!

Two weeks in a row the show done brought it. Whoo.
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post #7140 of 7777 Old 06-07-2015, 07:25 PM
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From shock to awe, just wow...two weeks in a row of great episodes.


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Game Of Thrones The Complete Second Season , Game Of Thrones The Complete First Season Blu Ray , Game Of Thrones The Complete Third Season Blu Ray , Game Of Thrones The Complete First Season Blu Ray Dvd Combo Digital Copy Collectors Edition
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