'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

One of Varys' "little birds"

Hmm.. ok. Could be. Was it hinted that way in the episode?
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post #722 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

Where I am losing this, is that the masses don't seem to have much of a say in the matter. As Cersei made her point to Littlefinger on Sunday, power is power. Claims don't mean anything unless you have the power to back it up. Not sure what would happen to Joffrey if Ned's "claim" of illegitimacy was proven. The Targaryens intermarried and handed the crown over to the spawn of siblings. Maybe the difference is the legitimate heir versus bastard standing which would imply the impact of a religious authority.

That is certainly Cersei's interpretation of power. Masses never seem to have much to say until ... they do have something to say. Just ask Hosni Mubarak.
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post #723 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 11:46 AM
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So just to be clear, you would say that Cersei's hair is dark?


You're kidding me, right?

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post #724 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

The children are being killed since they are living proof that all of Robert's children have dark hair, no matter who the mother is.

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the next step is to get rid of the REASON "someone believes it"...ie the evidence--the EVIDENCE is the black haired bastards--those bastards could expose her lol.

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the Bastards = black haired offspring of Robert, which is proof that the queen is a ho because her Bastards = golden haired.

I think everyone is missing the point that WilliamR was making when he originally started this discussion. That point is that there's no point in killing the kids because there is no way to prove that they are actually Robert's bastards, and no way to prove that any other random kids aren't.

There aren't DNA tests in this world, the only way that public knows that someone is someone's bastard is because someone in power tells them. If Stannis wants to discredit Joffrey he could just as easily pick out 12 random dark-haired orphans and say they're all Robert's bastard kids. The public knows no difference between them and Robert's actual bastard kids.

Likewise, whether they're real bastards or made up ones Stannis/Renly have no way of proving it. Either way, it's just their word. Cersei could just as easily say hey, look at that little blond kid over...uhm right over there. That's one of Robert's bastard kids too and he's blond!

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post #725 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FreeBaGeL View Post

I think everyone is missing the point that WilliamR was making when he originally started this discussion. That point is that there's no point in killing the kids because there is no way to prove that they are actually Robert's bastards, and no way to prove that any other random kids aren't.

There aren't DNA tests in this world, the only way that public knows that someone is someone's bastard is because someone in power tells them. If Stannis wants to discredit Joffrey he could just as easily pick out 12 random dark-haired orphans and say they're all Robert's bastard kids. The public knows no difference between them and Robert's actual bastard kids.

Likewise, whether they're real bastards or made up ones Stannis/Renly have no way of proving it. Either way, it's just their word. Cersei could just as easily say hey, look at that little blond kid over...uhm right over there. That's one of Robert's bastard kids too and he's blond!

That's why I said that apparently in this world, that is enough to meet the burden of proof...the Baratheon lineage is all black of hair (the seed is strong), King Robert's bastards are not only black of hair, but they look like him too (at least the last one does)--according to Ned Stark.

Also, I'm guessing that Aryn knew who the king was having relations with on a regular basis, and if they had children. If the women weren't around, and their children still were, like the last Bastard (can't remember his name), he was still able to ask them about their mother's physical characteristics (hair color)...so it's not presented in a way that ANYONE can just make that claim.

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post #726 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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well whether robert's bastards are all killed or not, it appears several houses will unite and try and unseat geoffrey by force.

in this case might makes right and that will decide who the king shall be.

even then, the king may no longer hold dominion over the 7 houses as robb stark and possibly other houses no longer wish to be subject to whoever is king at kings landing.

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post #727 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well whether robert's bastards are all killed or not, it appears several houses will unite and try and unseat geoffrey by force.

mr. wally, you continue to call the incestuous king by the wrong name. It is not Geoffrey. It is Joffrey!

Bobby 

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post #728 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 04:40 PM
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Nevermind.
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post #729 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well, as we all know, the kingship is going to be decided by battle as the queen and geoffrey will never voluntarily give up the throne

its just a big game to them.


The.......Game of Thrones, maybe???
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post #730 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

mr. wally, you continue to call the incestuous king by the wrong name. It is not Geoffrey. It is Joffrey!


well never having read the book or taking the time to read the credits..................

i stand corrected.


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The.......Game of Thrones, maybe???

yeah! someone finally got my joke

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post #731 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 05:39 PM
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Enough about the bastards...the red headed whore that's now the madam at Littlefinger's place looks like she porked up in the off season a bit. Preggers or too many McMuffins...what u think?

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #732 of 6039 Old 04-05-2012, 09:41 PM
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Enough about the bastards...the red headed whore that's now the madam at Littlefinger's place looks like she porked up in the off season a bit. Preggers or too many McMuffins...what u think?

Twinkies and/or ladyfingers.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #733 of 6039 Old 04-06-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

Twinkies and/or ladyfingers.

Ladyfingers? Funny choice given one of the scenes in the first season.

In regards to the bastards. While they might have no legitimate claim to the thrown, that doesn't mean down the line they couldn't get the support of someone with power and use the linage (legitimate or not) to their advantage. It's usually better to error on the side of caution. Even if it's barbaric, acts like that have happened in our past and in GOT's past. Better to be feared or loved? Fear usually quiets questions.
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post #734 of 6039 Old 04-06-2012, 12:12 PM
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good info here:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of.../guide/houses/

That was really helpful. There's a lot of stuff in there that just kind of seems like it gets glossed over in the show that really puts things into perspective. It's hard to take Renly seriously in the show because he's barely been seen/mentioned at all, yet that gives some good insight into how much power he has.

Reading through that whole thing, it seems like all the stuff that happened before GoT started would make for a really good book/show as well.

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post #735 of 6039 Old 04-06-2012, 01:54 PM
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Reading through that whole thing, it seems like all the stuff that happened before GoT started would make for a really good book/show as well.

And so it did.

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post #736 of 6039 Old 04-08-2012, 07:08 PM
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Crap, I totally misremembered that.
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post #737 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 09:15 AM
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Another great episode. I really like Tyrion and the moves he is making this season. Glad to see his character focused on more....
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post #738 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 09:39 AM
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Too little Daenarys again.. I want more..

RIP Mom, we always love you 8/18/13
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post #739 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 09:49 AM
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Too little Daenarys again.. I want more..

Agreed.

But I can wait until she hydrates....and bathes.
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post #740 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 10:30 AM
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Wow after just watching it, I guess the queen didn't order the slaughter of the bastards...not that it makes me hate her any less. In fact, I'm glad I was wrong because it gives me one more reason to enjoy what is bound to happen to Joffrey sooner or later...and it better be epic--I want to write songs about how he dies lol. I thought it funny that Tyrian mentioned those bastrds may have a better claim to the throne than his bastard nephew--he didn't put it that way, but that's how it sounded--at least they were bastards of the king. Now does this mean that Joffrey was talking about himself, when he said "someone believes it"? Or was this just a precaution so that no one would be able to use the bastards to try to fool people into believing that "disgusting lie"? The way the queen appeared to react, she almost looks as if she's starting to fear her son...I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing his own mother, especially after everyone saw her slap him--that and she could never confess to having an affair with his uncle--so umm, yeah...if he killed off the bastards, maybe mom and uncle are next.

So is GreyJoy throwing his forces in with the Lanisters/Baratheon1/Baratheon2 or waiting for an opportune time to make his own move against the warring factions? All I know is I don't like him...and his son probably isn't too fond of him right now. Hopefully Ned instilled enough honor in him that he won't turn and go against Rob Stark.

Once Arya hears of the reason her father was really killed, she'll know Gendry is one of those bastards. I hope she's the one to poke Joffrey full of holes...and then slices off his head lol...and then she'll probably marry Gendry--oh wait, her mother promised her to another "high born".

I still hate how this show ends just when it's getting good lol. What are the white walkers doing with the babies? adopting them? making baby stew? turning them into glowing blue eyed zombie babies?

Thought it funny how no one in King's Landing, besides Tyrian, is taking the threat of what lies beyond the wall seriously...so hoping the walkers make it that far south!

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post #741 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

Wow after just watching it, I guess the queen didn't order the slaughter of the bastards...not that it makes me hate her any less. In fact, I'm glad I was wrong because it gives me one more reason to enjoy what is bound to happen to Joffrey sooner or later...and it better be epic--I want to write songs about how he dies lol. I thought it funny that Tyrian mentioned those bastrds may have a better claim to the throne than his bastard nephew--he didn't put it that way, but that's how it sounded--at least they were bastards of the king. Now does this mean that Joffrey was talking about himself, when he said "someone believes it"? Or was this just a precaution so that no one would be able to use the bastards to try to fool people into believing that "disgusting lie"? The way the queen appeared to react, she almost looks as if she's starting to fear her son...I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing his own mother, especially after everyone saw her slap him--that and she could never confess to having an affair with his uncle--so umm, yeah...if he killed off the bastards, maybe mom and uncle are next.

So is GreyJoy throwing his forces in with the Lanisters/Baratheon1/Baratheon2 or waiting for an opportune time to make his own move against the warring factions? All I know is I don't like him...and his son probably isn't too fond of him right now. Hopefully Ned instilled enough honor in him that he won't turn and go against Rob Stark.

Once Arya hears of the reason her father was really killed, she'll know Gendry is one of those bastards. I hope she's the one to poke Joffrey full of holes...and then slices off his head lol...and then she'll probably marry Gendry--oh wait, her mother promised her to another "high born".

I still hate how this show ends just when it's getting good lol. What are the white walkers doing with the babies? adopting them? making baby stew? turning them into glowing blue eyed zombie babies?

Thought it funny how no one in King's Landing, besides Tyrian, is taking the threat of what lies beyond the wall seriously...so hoping the walkers make it that far south!

Not making any predictions about Joffrey, but he resembles in some ways the Emperor Caligula. No one is safe around this kid, Cersei, Tyrion, Uncle Jaimie or anyone else.

I tell you, being a Stark and being limited to their Dudley DooRight sense of honor is a real handicap in this world, as John Snow's perdicament illustrates. He was told to leave it alone and he just won't/can't listen.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #742 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 12:21 PM
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Kudos for HBO for continuing to shock on Sunday nights. Gay sex is no longer the taboo it was in the early naughts with "Six Feet Under." Incest on "Game of Thrones" still is.

What is it with these noblemen and their sisters (even if they don't know)?
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post #743 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 01:07 PM
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Kudos for HBO for continuing to shock on Sunday nights. Gay sex is no longer the taboo it was in the early naughts with "Six Feet Under." Incest on "Game of Thrones" still is.

What is it with these noblemen and their sisters (even if they don't know)?

It keeps the lines "pure" I believe it was said. They don't want to tarnish the bloodlines with having children with other families. It's posted somewhere on the site and in this thread if you look.
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post #744 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 02:38 PM
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I am going to steal from something I read earlier. Arya is basically the character anyone can relate to because we would all act the same way in this world. Tough on the inside, but pissing our pants scared on the inside.

I know Daenarys storyline is not getting much air, but I think it is by far the weakest of the bunch. I was expecting battles and dragons, not Moses Part II.


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post #745 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 02:59 PM
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yeah for tyrion, best character in the show. smartest too only one besides the wall watch that seems aware of the growing threat north of the wall.

loved the way he got rid of the head of the kings watch to keep
him from doing to him what happended to the last hand.

not sure i'm buying in yet that joffrey gave the order. it seems to me the queen may well be covering for herself as it seems clear that she
would have tyrion killed but for her father. the intrigue only grows.

so now we know where the male babies go. i want the whitewalkers to tear up kings landing but unfortunately, winterfell will probably be the first to taste their wrath.

and i hate series that have an end that leaves you hanging for a week. almost makes me want to go to the spoilers allowed thread.

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post #746 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 05:25 PM
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Too little Daenarys again.. I want more..

+100

Bring on the dragon lady. She is the one character who grew the most in season 1 & to me became the most interesting along with Tyrion. I'll truly be disappointed if all we see of her in this season is snippets.

We only have 8 to go.

Hate to say it but they could edit some of the sex scenes (Littlefinger wiping "something" from the mouth of whore #2 - gee - wonder what that was ) to give a little more airtime to Daenarys. Don't get me wrong, a few graphic sex scenes are A-OK but I'd still take a few minutes more story development instead this season. We already got the picture...it's a brothel & we all know what goes on there

Steve
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post #747 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 06:19 PM
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I am going to steal from something I read earlier. Arya is basically the character anyone can relate to because we would all act the same way in this world. Tough on the inside, but pissing our pants scared on the inside.

I know Daenarys storyline is not getting much air, but I think it is by far the weakest of the bunch. I was expecting battles and dragons, not Moses Part II.

It's only episode 2. The struggle her and her people are going through is just the lead up (IMO) to her becoming a badass leader. Without her struggle there would be much connection for her and her people. She represents the people IMO to the best of her ability. While she does act like a leader she also has the most compassion for those under her from what we have seen.

Since we are only at episode 2 I expect things will pick up, but there needs to be background to the battles. This show would not be as good if it were just battles and sex , if I want that I can watch Spartacus ;-). This show develops slowly but usually pays off in the end.
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post #748 of 6039 Old 04-09-2012, 08:31 PM
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I know Daenarys storyline is not getting much air, but I think it is by far the weakest of the bunch. I was expecting battles and dragons, not Moses Part II.

I disagree, I'm anxious to see that play out. It's all the scenes with Littlefinger and the brothel that are boring me so far.


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post #749 of 6039 Old 04-10-2012, 05:08 AM
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I disagree, I'm anxious to see that play out. It's all the scenes with Littlefinger and the brothel that are boring me so far.

yup - titilating to be sure but not really needed for the story/plot/character development. Seems like this season it's being more thrown in as gratuitous as a check-list.

not really needed to gain or retain the audience who are already hooked.

And I don't have a problem with the pacing or the trials of her people trekking across the desert. But if they had deleted just 1 of the brothel scenes or Theon doing it in the galley with the ship girl, they could easily have added 3 minutes for Daenarys.

The scene where Littlefinger is telling the whore about "being happy" to me did serve a purpose because it showed even more how ruthless he is & no better than a common street pimp.

Steve
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post #750 of 6039 Old 04-10-2012, 05:27 AM
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It keeps the lines "pure" I believe it was said. They don't want to tarnish the bloodlines with having children with other families. It's posted somewhere on the site and in this thread if you look.

Really? It mainly died out with the Egyptians. First cousins--yes. That's fairly common. Even the Hapsburgs didn't do brother/sister unions.

Back to Deanarys, she's the second most intriguing character behind Tyrion. I'm not sure if it's her acting, but I always pay attention when she's on the screen.
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