'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 259 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7741 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 06:49 AM
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Looks like our girl is expanding her horizons. Look at what she's learned from the faceless ones.
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post #7742 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 06:59 AM
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Myrcella being dead is a maybe/maybe not. Her boy friend/lover is on the boat with them and may have the antidote with him and the knowledge on how to use it. If not, there is the guy to rundown the snacks. He is a true born and his father is sure to help.
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post #7743 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 07:40 AM
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Looks like our girl is expanding her horizons. Look at what she's learned from the faceless ones.
Did anybody catch what she said to The Doctor? I couldn't make it out...
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post #7744 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 09:26 AM
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Did anybody catch what she said to The Doctor? I couldn't make it out...
"What took you so long, old man."
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post #7745 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 09:38 AM
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Myrcella being dead is a maybe/maybe not. Her boy friend/lover is on the boat with them and may have the antidote with him and the knowledge on how to use it. If not, there is the guy to rundown the snacks. He is a true born and his father is sure to help.

I see her death as continued fulfillment of the Gypsy prophesy .. 2 down, one to go .. the question being, why would anyone just happen to have the antidote handy .. ?? And, it would have to be that specific antidote .. B&W just don't make things that sloppy .. using the same logic, Jaqen H’ghar could be given an antidote .. I don't think so ..
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post #7746 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 10:48 AM
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I see her death as continued fulfillment of the Gypsy prophesy .. 2 down, one to go .. the question being, why would anyone just happen to have the antidote handy .. ?? And, it would have to be that specific antidote .. B&W just don't make things that sloppy .. using the same logic, Jaqen H’ghar could be given an antidote .. I don't think so ..
Well it is plausible that "the most beautiful woman in the world" Sand Snake knew what was coming & slipped Bronn the antidote while slipping him the tongue. All depends on her motivations etc. But that scenario wouldn't be "sloppy" IMO.
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post #7747 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 10:53 AM
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Well it is plausible that "the most beautiful woman in the world" Sand Snake knew what was coming & slipped Bronn the antidote while slipping him the tongue. All depends on her motivations etc. But that scenario wouldn't be "sloppy" IMO.

Her 1st loyalty is to her "mother". It would be sloppy if the antidote was slipped to Bronn by her. This is just part of the prophecy. The antidote must be taken early, Mycrella was dead when we last saw her and I don't think the antidote would work.


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post #7748 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:10 AM
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Well it is plausible that "the most beautiful woman in the world" Sand Snake knew what was coming & slipped Bronn the antidote while slipping him the tongue. All depends on her motivations etc. But that scenario wouldn't be "sloppy" IMO.

To paraphrase David Nutter/David Benioff /D.B. Weiss ... they confirm her death talking to Entertainment Weekly, and suggest that Cersei won’t necessarily be leading a war party to Dorne for revenge. “In her mind, Myrcella was taken away from her by Tyrion; she still blames him for Joffrey’s death, and he is directly responsible for Myrcella going to Dorne,” says Benioff. “So in her worldview, both of her children’s deaths are to be laid at his doorstep. This is one more thing to motivate her homicidal hatred of him.”


If somehow somebody "coughed up" an antidote, it would, in fact, be the sloppiest writing the show has ever seen ..


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post #7749 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:14 AM
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Her 1st loyalty is to her "mother". It would be sloppy if the antidote was slipped to Bronn by her. This is just part of the prophecy. The antidote must be taken early, Mycrella was dead when we last saw her and I don't think the antidote would work.
Ellaria Sand isn't her mother though. Ellaria is just the "step-mistress" - she's the mother of some of Oberyn's other daughters, but not "the most beautiful" one. It's hard to say exactly where Tyene's loyalties really lie.

And how do we know the antidote only works if taken quickly? Bronn didn't take the antidote for a long time after he got nicked - although I don't think we know for sure that the poison is the same. But frankly the whole Bronn got poisoned & saved story line sets up nicely for a cure of Myrcella here via a slipped in antidote from our favorite Sand Snake.
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post #7750 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
If somehow somebody "coughed up" an antidote, it would, in fact, be the sloppiest writing the show has ever seen ..
Isn't this the "No Spoiler" thread? Are B&W interviews about cliffhangers kosher?

I disagree on the sloppiest writing should Myrcella survive, tough to top the Greyjoys in the kennel scene or Jon Snow's raiding party on the turncoats at Kraster's IMO, but YMMV.

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post #7751 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
Her 1st loyalty is to her "mother". It would be sloppy if the antidote was slipped to Bronn by her. This is just part of the prophecy. The antidote must be taken early, Mycrella was dead when we last saw her and I don't think the antidote would work.


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And, we must also assume Ellaria Sand told her daughter she was going to poison Myrcella ..
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post #7752 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:43 AM
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Ellaria Sand isn't her mother though. Ellaria is just the "step-mistress" - she's the mother of some of Oberyn's other daughters, but not "the most beautiful" one. It's hard to say exactly where Tyene's loyalties really lie.
Question: Where is the lineage of the Sand Snakes gone into with that much detail on the show .. ?? I'm curious since I just can't seem to remember that bit .. my understanding indicates we are led to assume they are pretty much all Oberyn's daughters .. no .. ??
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post #7753 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 11:43 AM
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I don't think they have any more use for Myrcella. She was always a pawn. Now she's off the board.
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And as always, many choose to discount the statements made by those that run the show as mere fog designed to somehow fabricate a different outcome outside of what they believe should be the eventual outcome .. so, pardon me for taking David Nutter/David Benioff /D.B. Weiss seriously, they are obviously trying to create a smoke screen .. in order to intentionally drive up the speculation fire .. since we've beat this horse to "death" with Jon Snow, let's beat a new horse ..
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post #7755 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 12:02 PM
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Ellaria Sand isn't her mother though. Ellaria is just the "step-mistress" - she's the mother of some of Oberyn's other daughters, but not "the most beautiful" one. It's hard to say exactly where Tyene's loyalties really lie.

And how do we know the antidote only works if taken quickly? Bronn didn't take the antidote for a long time after he got nicked - although I don't think we know for sure that the poison is the same. But frankly the whole Bronn got poisoned & saved story line sets up nicely for a cure of Myrcella here via a slipped in antidote from our favorite Sand Snake.

Notice how I put the word mother in quotes...aka she is a symbolic mother to them (leader). How do you know it was the same poison? It seems that the poison used was different since Bronn didn't start bleeding through his orifices. We know you need to take it fairly quickly as Ellaria took it as soon as the 1st drop of blood fell. You would think that the family so involved with poison death tactics knows when to take the antidote. If she could wait without harm they could have walked away without any issues




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Isn't this the "No Spoiler" thread? Are B&W interviews about cliffhangers kosher?.

I disagree on the sloppiest writing should Myrcella survive, tough to top the Greyjoys in the kennel scene or Jon Snow's raiding party on the turncoats at Kraster's IMO, but YMMV.

It wasn't a cliffhanger to many people if they meant it to be a cliffhanger they wouldn't say anything. She died on screen yet some people for whatever reason think that her collapsing after bleeding out of her eyes meant she didn't die. I thought it was obvious she died in her father's arms. This scene was another blow to Jamie as he was at last able to embrace her as his daughter only to have her taken away. This scene also was part of the prophecy that we saw earlier in the season.


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post #7756 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 12:04 PM
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Question: Where is the lineage of the Sand Snakes gone into with that much detail on the show .. ?? I'm curious since I just can't seem to remember that bit .. my understanding indicates we are led to assume they are pretty much all Oberyn's daughters .. no .. ??
One of the Sand Snakes referenced Ellaria as her Mom on the show. I had thought it was not our favorite Sand Snake & was using a Wiki which said it wasn't, but then also said it was in the detailed description of Tyene so I believe on the show Tyene actually indicated Ellaria is her Mom. My bad there.

Oberynn in season 4 also references his 8 daughters in a conversation and I believe indicates how many different mothers they have.

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post #7757 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 12:11 PM
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It wasn't a cliffhanger to many people if they meant it to be a cliffhanger they wouldn't say anything. She died on screen yet some people for whatever reason think that her collapsing after bleeding out of her eyes meant she didn't die. I thought it was obvious she died in her father's arms. This scene was another blow to Jamie as he was at last able to embrace her as his daughter only to have her taken away. This scene also was part of the prophecy that we saw earlier in the season.
When is Dead really Dead? That scene didn't have me 100% convinced that Myrcella is gone. She may very well be, but we did just see someone else survive the same poison, so...Why not Myrcella? Given the season starting prophecy, you're probably right though that Myrcella the Pawn has fallen as it's tidy...
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post #7758 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 12:33 PM
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When is Dead really Dead? That scene didn't have me 100% convinced that Myrcella is gone. She may very well be, but we did just see someone else survive the same poison, so...Why not Myrcella? Given the season starting prophecy, you're probably right though that Myrcella the Pawn has fallen as it's tidy...

Why not Myrcella? Well for one she didn't have the antidote right away, she bled out and collapsed. Dead is usually dead in GoT with only a few exceptions (none of which come into play here).


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post #7759 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 12:38 PM
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One of the Sand Snakes referenced Ellaria as her Mom on the show. I had thought it was not our favorite Sand Snake & was using a Wiki which said it wasn't, but then also said it was in the detailed description of Tyene so I believe on the show Tyene actually indicated Ellaria is her Mom. My bad there.

Oberynn in season 4 also references his 8 daughters in a conversation and I believe indicates how many different mothers they have.

They are all Oberynn's daughters (as are all sand snakes). Using wiki can open yourself up to spoilers itself they have changed some things so the wiki that uses the book is not always accurate for the show.


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post #7760 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 05:34 PM
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And, we must also assume Ellaria Sand told her daughter she was going to poison Myrcella ..
That is exactly what she did.
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post #7761 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 05:36 PM
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If somehow somebody "coughed up" an antidote, it would, in fact, be the sloppiest writing the show has ever seen
The whole Dorne thing is sloppy writing! They murder Myrcella without a reason. They spit on the memory of Oberyn, who died in a trial by combat.

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The whole Dorne thing is sloppy writing! They murder Myrcella without a reason. They spit on the memory of Oberyn, who died in a trial by combat.

She was killed because of Oberyn's death. Not sure how you can say it was for "no reason". Elariah new she was Jamie's and Cersi's daughter. She wanted to cause them the pain that she felt. While you say she spit on Oberyn's memory she in fact thought that was justice and justified revenge.


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post #7763 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 08:46 PM
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She was killed because of Oberyn's death. Not sure how you can say it was for "no reason". Elariah new she was Jamie's and Cersi's daughter. She wanted to cause them the pain that she felt. While you say she spit on Oberyn's memory she in fact thought that was justice and justified revenge.


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But, Oberyn CHOOSE to take part in that "trial". Myrcella had nothing to do with it. Elariah was told that "we don't hurt little girls", yet she did.

If she wanted revenge, Jamie would have made far more sense, if for nothing else, she would be taking Cersei' lover, as hers was taken. This way she merely sentenced her entire line to death, for, "A Lannister always pays their debts."

I agree that whole "sidequest" was horribly written. There was no logic there.
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post #7764 of 7781 Old 07-14-2015, 09:34 PM
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'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion

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But, Oberyn CHOOSE to take part in that "trial". Myrcella had nothing to do with it. Elariah was told that "we don't hurt little girls", yet she did.



If she wanted revenge, Jamie would have made far more sense, if for nothing else, she would be taking Cersei' lover, as hers was taken. This way she merely sentenced her entire line to death, for, "A Lannister always pays their debts."



I agree that whole "sidequest" was horribly written. There was no logic there.

She wanted revenge and hurting Jamie NOT killing him was the better solution. As the saying goes hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. You expect Elariah to listen when she was so set on revenge and play nice? She KNOWS he volunteered, that doesn't stop her feeling hurt over his loss. Jeoffery was told to send Ned to the Nights Watch, we all know how that ended.

She knew it was war either way. The more hurtful thing was to kill Mycrella and have BOTH Jamie and Cersi feel that pain. Right now the Lannister power is in flux this is the "perfect" time to strike them. The only debts a Lannister doesn't pay are the ones they owe the crown


I never said it was the "right" thing or the "smart" thing to do in the big picture. I just know the WHY she went after Mycrella and not Jamie.

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post #7765 of 7781 Old 07-15-2015, 06:36 AM
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We do not hurt little girls in Dorne. Oberyn last season. Did Prince Doran tell Ellaria to fallow his orders or off comes the head as she kiss his ring. Maybe all Jaime need do is turn around and bring her body back to Prince Doran, off comes the head, he well know with one look.
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post #7766 of 7781 Old 07-15-2015, 01:23 PM
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I do hope Jamie takes the body back to Doran. It is the ONLY way to keep Cersei from going full-on, bat-**** crazy. Hide the death.
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post #7767 of 7781 Old 07-15-2015, 01:33 PM
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I do hope Jamie takes the body back to Doran. It is the ONLY way to keep Cersei from going full-on, bat-**** crazy. Hide the death.

You mean you think she's sane? Hmmmmmm


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post #7768 of 7781 Old 07-15-2015, 08:13 PM
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You mean you think she's sane? Hmmmmmm


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Nuts it is
But not stupid
One other thought, the young Prince from Dorne that is with Jaime also wound want to get even with the snacks, but I think I said that before.
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post #7769 of 7781 Old 07-17-2015, 10:25 AM
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There is nothing on the TV thats as interesting as the Game, even a few months after the last episode of the season.
Next Year.
Traditionally, I re-watch each season after some time has passed .. I started my re-watch of Season 5 last night .. I always get a little more out of it the second time around ..
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post #7770 of 7781 Old 07-17-2015, 10:41 AM
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Traditionally, I re-watch each season after some time has passed .. I started my re-watch of Season 5 last night .. I always get a little more out of it the second time around ..
I can still get stuff the third and fourth times too. Really helps to coalesce the story in the brainium. Season four is fantastic as a binge watch.
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