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Old 05-23-2016, 06:20 PM
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I wish they hadn't recast Rila Fukushima (the one in this pic). She had a much more mysterious presence and chemistry with Tyrion without a single word being said.

it's a different red priestess that Tyrion meets with in Meereen...but I'm with you that Rila Fukushima looked much more mysterious and to be honest sexy...that new priestess isn't all that sexy in my opinion nor does she have that 'it' quality that makes Melisandre and the Rila priestess perfectly cast
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:40 PM
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The temptation to jump up and yell "HEREEEEEEEES JONNNNNNNNNNY!" must have been strong.
First that.^ Now this... HOLD THE DOOR /HORDOR! Is it just me?

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Old 05-23-2016, 06:42 PM
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I know George RR Martin has publically stated that the books and TV show are 2 separate entities but he cannot be happy that the show spoiled the Hodor revelation...such a major twist/reveal is something the books thrived on and now this and most likely many other major events are going to be spoiled...and in case anyone was wondering the 'Hold the Door' moment came from George R.R. Martin's notes/himself and wasn't something the show made up on its own...it was already mentioned in this thread but here's the 'Inside the Episode #5' where the showrunners discuss meeting with GRRM where he tells them about the Hodor reveal...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Jsj9V_Aqg
Someone predicted this way back in 2008 - http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...omment-1236249

And then GRRM all but confirmed it - https://ventrellaquest.com/2014/04/20/got-got/ but without giving it away
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:14 PM
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How far away were they?

How should I know? Obviously they were in distance of "30 minutes or less or your Zombie is free".
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:23 PM
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How should I know? Obviously they were in distance of "30 minutes or less or your Zombie is free".

the White Walkers and their army don't travel normally on foot or horse...they can if they want to but as we saw with Hardhome they can move within a snowstorm...almost like they move with the wind...they are supernatural creatures so normal laws of physics don't apply...you can make a better argument that Littlefinger got to Sansa way too fast...the White Walker army has always been strange...in the earlier seasons you see them roaming around and killing people here and there but where are they going?...shouldn't they already be at The Wall?...at the end of Season 2 Sam sees them close to the Fist of the First Men so they should have easily made it to the Wall or beyond by now
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:24 PM
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They certainly got to the tree quick. Those bastards must take some reeally big steps. Of all the things you wish would arrive early... they aren't one of them.
It makes total sense. This wasn't linear time, there's no reason to assume the WW army got there quick. Bran visited them in the past since he can travel through time, so who knows when he visited the WW army and why they were gathered at the weirwood? Probably an earlier attempt to attack? Since then the NK knew at some point in the future Bran would be marked and thus had time to plan to be there.
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:36 PM
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Jesu Christo, the internet is stripping the humor out of everything. I reread my posts and I really can't see anything but lighthearted banter, yet the Shell Answer Man Autocorrect posts come out in full force. VisionOn got it at least.

OK, you guys do play by play and I'll do color. Deal? Deal.
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:15 PM
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is this the last we're going to see of Ser Jorah for some time?...his story seems complete now that he admitted his feelings for Daenerys plus his Greyscale advancing rapidly...the show always seems to create new groups or pairings every season but I don't see where Ser Jorah would fit now...great character so I'm going to miss him...maybe he'll go back home to the Bear Islands to recruit them to Dany's cause
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Old 05-23-2016, 08:17 PM
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Is it me or does the show seems to progress at quicker pace, (except Ayra's story line), now the show runners are mostly free of the books?
What they do is they spend less time on each arc so it seems that more is happening by jumping around more quickly. They used to linger more with a single story arc making it feel slow especially with Arya's for example or the journey of Bran.

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Old 05-23-2016, 11:34 PM
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Wow very nice story for hodor.

Arya's story does not make sense. She wants to become faceless man to avenge her family. To do that, she has to lose her identity and become an assassin for some mysterious org. What's the length of this contract? Is she going to be a free agent at some point? Doubt it. Everything's for life in this world.

I know it'll make sense at some point but it doesn't make sense now and I don't get why Arya agreed to it.

I'm pretty sure the priestess is the same one Tyrion ran into earlier which is why he thought of her and sought her out. It ties in nicely. I agree the previous actress is better for the part.

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Old 05-24-2016, 12:24 AM
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Jesu Christo, the internet is stripping the humor out of everything.
Tormund and Brienne can help with that.

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Old 05-24-2016, 02:32 AM
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I'm pretty sure the priestess is the same one Tyrion ran into earlier which is why he thought of her and sought her out. It ties in nicely. I agree the previous actress is better for the part.

it's not the same priestess...there are tons of Red priests running around Westeros, Essos etc...proof that it's a different priestess?...the one Tyrion speaks to in Meereen mentions the other priestess in their conversation...listen to it again...she mentions the other priestess they encountered on the Bridge to Volantis...that is the one played by Rila Fukushima
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Old 05-24-2016, 05:47 AM
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Just when you expect there to be some kind of slow down episode, they throw another action packed episode in with so much going on.


Another direwolf gone.


Sansa's talk with Littlefinger was amazing and touching.


Even Theon's part was awesome to watch and I've grown to not like his character all that much.


Touching scene with Daenerys and the two of them finally admitting how they really feel.


Awesome battle with the white walkers.


Hodor's reveal!!!


Bran can influence the past.


Awesome stuff, so much revealed/happening.

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:43 AM
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How should I know? Obviously they were in distance of "30 minutes or less or your Zombie is free".
Wise man say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late Zombie."

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Old 05-24-2016, 11:08 AM
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Am I the only one a bit disappointed that the story went with that kind of time loop? I've never been a fan of them because my mind tells me that logically it doesn't work. I know a lot of people say it does because of being a closed loop and all that, but it doesn't work for me. You have to look at time in strange ways.

I feel the same about Terminator and a lot of other movies that have time travel and do something similar.

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Old 05-24-2016, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Am I the only one a bit disappointed that the story went with that kind of time loop? I've never been a fan of them because my mind tells me that logically it doesn't work. I know a lot of people say it does because of being a closed loop and all that, but it doesn't work for me. You have to look at time in strange ways.



I feel the same about Terminator and a lot of other movies that have time travel and do something similar.


Can't say I have an issue with it. If you have issues with time travel period (which it looks like you may) then I can see it bothering you. You don't "have" to look at time in strange ways to understand either


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Old 05-24-2016, 12:10 PM
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Can't say I have an issue with it. If you have issues with time travel period (which it looks like you may) then I can see it bothering you. You don't "have" to look at time in strange ways to understand either


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I don't have an issue with time travel, or changing the past. I have an issue with the way it is used a lot.

I do not like the idea that the what is changed or affected in the past is a big part of the reason or cause for a person going back in the first place. Like the only reason John Conner exists is because John himself sent Kyle back to save his mom. Without B there is no A, and it doesn't follow logically. I think there needs to be a virgin timeline, and in the case of the Terminator, it would mean that there is a John Conner regardless of whether or not Kyle Reese comes to the past or not. There needs to be an initial John Conner, not of Kyle Reese, to send Kyle Reese back.

For GoT, Hodor should be Hodor regardless of what happens in the present, because Willas being Hodor is a big part of why they are in that position in the present and why Bran can warg into him.

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Old 05-24-2016, 12:33 PM
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Am I the only one a bit disappointed that the story went with that kind of time loop? I've never been a fan of them because my mind tells me that logically it doesn't work. I know a lot of people say it does because of being a closed loop and all that, but it doesn't work for me. You have to look at time in strange ways.

I feel the same about Terminator and a lot of other movies that have time travel and do something similar.
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Can't say I have an issue with it. If you have issues with time travel period (which it looks like you may) then I can see it bothering you. You don't "have" to look at time in strange ways to understand either


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I had an issue with it last time I was here. This time, I'm fine with it.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:14 PM
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Tormund and Brienne can help with that.

Tormund is the best barbarian ever! He's gruff and brutish but not a fool, capable of forming alliances and behaving himself in mixed company (barely), exactly how I used to play my D&D barbarians back in the day.
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Old 05-24-2016, 01:24 PM
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Yeah but how many of them look as fantastic as Melisandra does when she takes off that necklace.
That's what alcohol and drugs were invented for!
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:28 PM
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Tormund is the best barbarian ever! He's gruff and brutish but not a fool, capable of forming alliances and behaving himself in mixed company (barely), exactly how I used to play my D&D barbarians back in the day.

I love every second of the Tormund/Brienne scenes. I need a whole episode dedicated to these two.
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:40 PM
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I loved LOST's version of time travel where 'everything that happened, happened'...you don't remember it happening in the present because it hasn't occurred in the past yet...so once you go back and change something then everything else happens naturally...with GoT, Hodor being Hodor technically never happened until Bran went back and caused it to happen...so it doesn't really make sense that Hodor was like that in the present...either way I love really deep, complicated, thought provoking shows and GoT adding time travel paradoxes to the mix has raised the bar even higher
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:57 PM
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I quite enjoy time travel paradoxes in Hodor's case, since without Hodor being Hodor, Bran wouldn't have even made it to the point where he had to hold the door. Meaning, it was preordained Fate. That has cosmological implications.

Or, conversely, if Bran could possibly have died at any point before Hodor held that door, or for example not being pushed my Jaime off the tower and become a cripple such that he needed Hodor, there is no way Wilys could have had those magical convulsions through hearing those echoes calling him out to hold the door. Meaning at least insofar as Bran is concerned, his entire story could not have turned out any different, at least not until Hodor died from holding the door.

Must be the work of the Old Gods!

Even more tantalizing, is the idea that Bran can physically transport himself through the roots, or perhaps through Astral projection or something akin to that, with the end result of him being physically able to touch things or be touched by them (like the White Walker's hand print), and affect their outcome.

Bran could become like a teleporting, all knowing Oracle, capable of unearthing secrets that no one alive still remembers or perhaps no book has ever recorded, or even perhaps no living being has ever known. If knowledge is power, his power just became immense. Now what's the outcome of all this? I guess we'll find out soon! I wonder if Bran can communicate to beings other than White Walkers, deliberately. Obviously Wiley heard "hold the door" but it wasn't Bran himself saying it, it was some metaphysical connection between Bran's ears hearing the girl yell out the phrase, and Wiley looking over and seeing Bran's temporally reprojected body. And he didn't even speak to him. So perhaps even one way communication is difficult. But since we know that both Wiley and Ned Stark could be made to hear things when Bran is nearby (whether he's the one speaking or acting as a conduit), the big question from now on is whether Bran can now actually use this ability to communicate to those living now, but across vast distances. And without harming them in the process.

It would be like Napoleon having a cellphone to speak to his various armies or informants, that no one else could use but him and those he wanted to speak to. It would make you like a God among men. A huge advantage.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
I loved LOST's version of time travel where 'everything that happened, happened'...you don't remember it happening in the present because it hasn't occurred in the past yet...so once you go back and change something then everything else happens naturally...with GoT, Hodor being Hodor technically never happened until Bran went back and caused it to happen...so it doesn't really make sense that Hodor was like that in the present...either way I love really deep, complicated, thought provoking shows and GoT adding time travel paradoxes to the mix has raised the bar even higher


It does make sense since we are watching from a point where it already happened, thus we were just "catching up with the future" because of where we started the story. We just weren't privy to the "how/why" knowledge until last episode. What will happen has already happened, it's just waiting for us to catch up to it.



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Old 05-24-2016, 03:17 PM
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I loved LOST's version of time travel where 'everything that happened, happened'...you don't remember it happening in the present because it hasn't occurred in the past yet...so once you go back and change something then everything else happens naturally...
That's not how I recall it. Lost used a fixed past time travel logic to prevent anything from changing. Everything that happened, already happened, therefore when you go back in time any action you do or do not take was always going to happen regardless. The future you came from was a direct result of you already visiting the past. It was a smart move on Lost, because in every scene they traveled to the past events conspired so that characters never interfered with previous events and contradicted scenes we already saw in previous seasons. No retcons required and no earlier scenes ruined.

So if you go back in time with the intent to kill your parents the fact you were born and traveled back in time means that you never succeeded and whatever you try never will. Your actions were already part of your history before you jumped. If your time traveling self has no memory of meeting a future you, then going back in time will not allow you to meet an earlier you. You can always alter your future, but your past is immutable.

Which is similar to Thrones but since we haven't seen the extent of Bran's power we don't really know yet. Did Bran change the future, or was it always going to happen? We never saw the scene of Wyllis earlier so there is no contradiction and this is not a time travel retcon.

If Hodor is not dead and somehow regains his mind then at some point he might remember being told to hold the door as a kid and having a vision of Bran as a youngster. So all this time Hodor could have had knowledge of a future Bran visiting him as a child which made Hodor realize it was important that he should he should help Bran, because at some point Bran would need to go back to tell him to hold the door. Since Hodor could never communicate we will likely never know if helping Bran was something he always knew he should do.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:24 PM
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I personally don't like the paradox. The past is based upon something in the future. Hodor is caused by a person that didn't exist yet. The future Bran must already exist for past Willis to be Hodor. Time is either not linear as we experience it or it's a constant loop, or some other crap. I accept the story, I just don't like these kinds of things.

Was he warging into young Willis vision or present Hodor?



I don't remember if the show explained that his power is based around the trees, those specific wierwood trees. White ones with red leaves, have faces carved into them, used for old religious ceremony. He's witnessing whatever the trees have witnessed. Maybe it was explained, maybe it wasn't and the show is changing it and giving him limitless range?
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:45 PM
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I personally don't like the paradox. The past is based upon something in the future. Hodor is caused by a person that didn't exist yet. The future Bran must already exist for past Willis to be Hodor. Time is either not linear as we experience it or it's a constant loop, or some other crap.
Time is only a loop up to the point that a future event affects the present.

If Bran caused Hodor, then between that point and Bran jumping back in time are a sequence of fixed events that can never be changed. Which is handy if you know that, because if you see a future version of someone right now then you know they are effectively immortal. They cannot die until they have made that jump to the past.

Unless the future version you see is a robot, hologram, doppelganger or clone. Or they were in the "Speed Force."
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:06 PM
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Wow very nice story for hodor.

Arya's story does not make sense. She wants to become faceless man to avenge her family. To do that, she has to lose her identity and become an assassin for some mysterious org. What's the length of this contract? Is she going to be a free agent at some point? Doubt it. Everything's for life in this world.

I know it'll make sense at some point but it doesn't make sense now and I don't get why Arya agreed to it.

I'm pretty sure the priestess is the same one Tyrion ran into earlier which is why he thought of her and sought her out. It ties in nicely. I agree the previous actress is better for the part.
I think Arya believes most if not all of her family is dead. When she was out on her own she witnessed so much horror, and this guy Jaq'en comes along and he can kill anyone with stealth, and change faces, and she wants Justice for a lot of people. I think that's why she went to Braavos to look for Jaq'en - she wanted that power as well. I don't think she knows her brothers are still alive, or Sansa. Once she finds out, will it change anything? Or will she be too far gone into the faceless world?

I like the actress that played the Priestess this time. I thought she played the role very well.






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I don't have an issue with time travel, or changing the past. I have an issue with the way it is used a lot.

I do not like the idea that the what is changed or affected in the past is a big part of the reason or cause for a person going back in the first place. Like the only reason John Conner exists is because John himself sent Kyle back to save his mom. Without B there is no A, and it doesn't follow logically. I think there needs to be a virgin timeline, and in the case of the Terminator, it would mean that there is a John Conner regardless of whether or not Kyle Reese comes to the past or not. There needs to be an initial John Conner, not of Kyle Reese, to send Kyle Reese back.

For GoT, Hodor should be Hodor regardless of what happens in the present, because Willas being Hodor is a big part of why they are in that position in the present and why Bran can warg into him.


Well, many physicists say that all time exists at once. So if that's true, then there really is no past or future, only now. I find it hard sometimes to wrap my brain around this stuff. Thinking about time travel makes my head hurt. And I agree with everything you said about it.

Also, with regard to time travel, I would imagine if you could actually go back in time and affect the future, either it would have to be fate and couldn't actually be affected because it already happened, or, you would just create a new and different timeline/reality/parallel universe. Otherwise there would be chaos, things would just be too complicated, because you (or whoever could time travel) would constantly be going back in time and everything would be constantly changing. Who knows? Maybe it already is and we just aren't aware of it. Star Trek (I think it was Enterprise) did an ongoing subplot about time travel and a collective from the future who go back into the past to make sure no one from any time period goes back in time and changes anything. In the end, they screwed themselves. I loved that ST series, but that subplot (along with the one about the Xindi) became a snoozefest after awhile.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:33 PM
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I love every second of the Tormund/Brienne scenes. I need a whole episode dedicated to these two.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:56 PM
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with regard to time travel, I would imagine if you could actually go back in time and affect the future, either it would have to be fate and couldn't actually be affected because it already happened, or, you would just create a new and different timeline/reality/parallel universe.
Time travel fiction is not that hard if you stick to a couple of basic points like those two you mentioned. Either you cannot change what is past and it always happens that way or you can but jumping into the future will always take you to places affected by the changes you made.

So far this show has done so little they haven't messed anything up. If in the books Bran is appearing in scenes that were described previously but Bran and his actions never originally affected then Martin has some answering to do at some point.

Coming back to this thread after watching the time travel abomination on Flash just reminds me that Thrones is not particularly complicated at all!


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