'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 286 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8551 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 09:07 AM
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Ok. Glad to see he's still in the show. I was afraid that stayed behind in Dorne and married a Sand Snake.

Hell, if they were not so lethal, I'd marry a Sand Snake .. .. then again, even if I lasted only a week, what a way to go out ..
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post #8552 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:00 AM
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But really, who would the "Faith Militant" put up against Zombie Mountain Ser Robert Gregor? Lancil? Tommen? Cardinal Steve Austin, the Red Hat of Pain!!!?

putting Tommen up against The Mountain would be brilliant strategy by the High Sparrow...it'll force Cersei to back down or face the slaughter of her son which she will be responsible for...but I don't see that happening as the person has to volunteer and is not simply chosen (Bronn volunteered for Tyrion at the Vale and Oberyn did the same for Tyrion against the Mountain)
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post #8553 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:06 AM
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I don't think you explicitly have to volunteer. I'm not positive. But, Tyrion's situation was unique. He was a prisoner, surrounded by people fighting for the Vale/Starks. He just needed a person immediately to fight for him in Bronn's case. The other situation was him accused of regicide. No one in king's landing will support a king killer. Except that particular one that offered his service.

The person can ask another and they can say yes or no.

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post #8554 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:11 AM
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putting Tommen up against The Mountain would be brilliant strategy by the High Sparrow...it'll force Cersei to back down or face the slaughter of her son which she will be responsible for...but I don't see that happening as the person has to volunteer and is not simply chosen (Bronn volunteered for Tyrion at the Vale and Oberyn did the same for Tyrion against the Mountain)
That's still an interesting theory .. I'm sure with the new Church / State Alliance, the High Sparrow could try and convince Tommen .. the only problem being, Cersei being found guilty if Tommen is allowed to kill FrankenMountain .. .. (I would assume Cersei would demand FrankenMountain not raise a hand against Tommen ..)

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post #8555 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:12 AM
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I don't think you explicitly have to volunteer. I'm not positive. But, Tyrion's situation was unique. He was a prisoner, surrounded by people fighting for the Vale/Starks. He just needed a person immediately to fight for him in Bronn's case. The other situation was him accused of regicide. No one in king's landing will support a king killer. Except that particular one that offered his service.



The person can ask another and they can say yes or no.


You are correct. You can volunteer or be asked (and say yes/no).


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post #8556 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:20 AM
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putting Tommen up against The Mountain would be brilliant strategy by the High Sparrow...it'll force Cersei to back down or face the slaughter of her son which she will be responsible for...but I don't see that happening as the person has to volunteer and is not simply chosen (Bronn volunteered for Tyrion at the Vale and Oberyn did the same for Tyrion against the Mountain)

I like it. Is Mountain classified as Kings Guard? If so he my be obliged to yield to Tommen in a fight.

Checkmate, courtesy of Mr Sparrow.
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post #8557 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
putting Tommen up against The Mountain would be brilliant strategy by the High Sparrow...it'll force Cersei to back down or face the slaughter of her son which she will be responsible for...but I don't see that happening as the person has to volunteer and is not simply chosen (Bronn volunteered for Tyrion at the Vale and Oberyn did the same for Tyrion against the Mountain)

if Tommen were to die, who is the next *legal* rightful heir to the throne?

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post #8558 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by OggideM View Post
if Tommen were to die, who is the next *legal* rightful heir to the throne?
Believe it or not, I think it is Cersei. At least that is what I read, somewhere.

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post #8559 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:32 AM
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if Tommen were to die, who is the next *legal* rightful heir to the throne?

that's a good question...since neither of the last 2 kings were rightful heirs (Joffrey, Tommen) it really should be Gendry Baratheon (still rowing that boat?)...Gendry is Robert Baratheon's bastard son...but if the Lannisters continue the false kings then can it be Lancel Lannister?
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post #8560 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 10:33 AM
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Wouldn't it be Margerie, she's the actual queen.

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post #8561 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 11:28 AM
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It will have to Saint Hound of .... well wherever the hound's broken body outside of the vale was left to die. Hound vs Mountain II, its time to pay back for a burned face.
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post #8562 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 11:37 AM
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that's a good question...since neither of the last 2 kings were rightful heirs (Joffrey, Tommen) it really should be Gendry Baratheon (still rowing that boat?)...Gendry is Robert Baratheon's bastard son...but if the Lannisters continue the false kings then can it be Lancel Lannister?
Wondering if Dany would come into play .. ?? .. my History gets confused, but is she not the rightful ruler .. ??
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post #8563 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 12:33 PM
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Since when did feeding the poor and wanting those in power to "atone" for their blatant "above the law" attitude become a bad thing .. ?? Somebodies got to do it ..


Cheers to the High Sparrow ..
When you conveniently justify whatever you want to do politically as God's will?
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post #8564 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 12:35 PM
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Who's going to fight/beat "zombie Mountain"?
Could it be.... zombie Hound?

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post #8565 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 12:47 PM
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Wondering if Dany would come into play .. ?? .. my History gets confused, but is she not the rightful ruler .. ??

she definitely has a claim...I still think that Gendry, being the only remaining living son of Robert Baratheon would be the 'rightful' heir according to succession rules but others like Dany have claims based on circumstances
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post #8566 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 12:53 PM
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When you conveniently justify whatever you want to do politically as God's will?
Trust me, at 70, I get how it works .. I have simply not seen any evidence of High Sparrow political ambition .. what does he want .. ?? A seat on the Small Council .. ?? A House and Lands .. ?? And where did his Political Ambition show up .. ?? I honestly don't recall ..

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post #8567 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 01:05 PM
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she definitely has a claim...I still think that Gendry, being the only remaining living son of Robert Baratheon would be the 'rightful' heir according to succession rules but others like Dany have claims based on circumstances
Gendry is a bastard though & bastards have little to no claim. Gendry would have to be "de-bastardized" like Ramsay was allowing him to become the Bolton heir. Typically that's been the King with the power to do that & if Tommen is dead that seems a no go. Gendry would need someone powerful who knows his ancestry who was willing to back the long shot to put Gendry on the throne. Not sure who that is.

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post #8568 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 01:39 PM
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The throne is going to be taken, not by any political claim, but by force. The very first king doesn't get voted in either. Whatever "claim" they have doesn't matter.

Tommen will die eventually, if you believe the witch predictions from the flashback.
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post #8569 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 02:51 PM
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Your Arya theory is amazing and frankly I think if that happened it'd be one of the most shocking things on the show, the Internet would explode in outrage. I can see GRRM doing that though.

I may be in the minority but I liked Sam's dad. Sam is a nice guy with a kind heart but would make a horrible leader. He'd be dead without Jon. And his dad is apparently a legendary military leader. Its not like Sam deserves the sword, he's no fighter and got lucky with the WW. Tywin was also an evil tycoon but you can see without his leadership the Lannisters are a joke with idiot Tommen and useless Cersei + Jaime.
Regarding your comment about Sam... While it's true he's not a great warrior, he would be a great Maester. Also, being a great leader is about a lot more than being able to fight. Look at Tyrion. While he has been in battle and even done well leading men into battle, he's not a great warrior, but he has a keen mind, and he knows a LOT of stuff. Knowledge is his thing, his raison d'etra. He had to develop his mind-- that was his contribution to his family (he said that early on). I think Sam might eventually (possibly) become Tyrion's equal with regard to knowledge, perhaps not in leadership skill, but leaders need men with knowledge. That's why all leaders have advisors.


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As far as your Arya theory, it's cool, but missing the requirement of the black and white assassination, the payment. Who would be requesting Sansa's death, that needed a faceless man? The waif does seem have some weird vendetta against Arya, but I don't think she's going to take over her life to kill Sansa.

Personally, I'm annoyed that she's giving up on the assassin thing this fast. Basically a waste of time coming over here. I'm missing something.

I don't think she's given up the assassination thing, otherwise she never would have hidden needle and then gone back for it. I think a possibility is, she'll kill the waif and that will be payment enough for the god (Jaq'en just said a face is owed," he never specified whose). I think she decided to stay so she could learn all their tricks before going out on her own. She's using them. She became very adept at lying though. And, she learned patience and stealth.


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I think the high sparrow is a villain. He may be much more so because he seeks power by claiming to be righteous. How many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion.
I agree. Religious leaders *always* have an agenda. They all seek ultimate power, no matter how humble and meek they may seem. And when the Sparrow said they were all willing to die for their cause, well, that's what makes them dangerous. In this world we would call them fanatics.


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I don't believe that King's Landing was torched under Mad King Aerys...he ordered it but Jamie killed him before his orders could be carried out...


you can't expect David Benioff and Dan Weiss to spend there entire life (or at least there prime) writing and directing Game of Thrones...I'm sure they have other projects they want to do but the show requires pretty much a year round commitment...I think they are doing their best to accurately depict the books but yes I'm sure they are also condensing it as well...but they are still following the outline GRRM gave them...so to that end I'm sure they will do a great job all the way to the end...without question they did an amazing job with this adaptation and I don't think anyone else could have done a better job with such a dense and epic series of fantasy novels

D&D are huge fans of the book and it shows in the way they have crafted the show
The Mad King did like burn people though. He was insane.

There is no way they could follow the books exactly. There are far too many characters and so much more going on. If they wanted to do it exactly the show would have about 20 episodes/season. It would be too hard and cost too much. They're doing a great job, imo, even though they've changed certain things.

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Someone asked if HBO owned the show. I *think* D&D own the rights to adapt and produce the show and they have a contract with HBO. HBO (I'm sure) has some kind of exclusivity contract with both D&D and also George RR Martin for the show. I could be wrong about that, but I think that's normally how they do it when adapting a book to screen. Someone buys the rights to the book, and then they have x amount of time to produce it before the production rights go away. They have to sell it to someone in order to produce it, in this case, HBO. In some other countries the show is on a different network (like Showcase).
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post #8570 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 03:20 PM
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I agree. Religious leaders *always* have an agenda. They all seek ultimate power, no matter how humble and meek they may seem. And when the Sparrow said they were all willing to die for their cause, well, that's what makes them dangerous. In this world we would call them fanatics.
So, you think Pope Francis fits the bill .. ?? What about a guy named Jesus .. ?? A blanket statement like this is simply wrong .. and I am an Atheist .. I ask again, of anyone, what evidence have we seen that the High Sparrow is anything more or less than what he's shown as .. ??

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post #8571 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 03:57 PM
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So, you think Pope Francis fits the bill .. ?? What about a guy named Jesus .. ?? A blanket statement like this is simply wrong .. and I am an Atheist .. I ask again, of anyone, what evidence have we seen that the High Sparrow is anything more or less than what he's shown as .. ??


I think by his own admission he is a "sinner" although never admitting to what sin. His actions, have been pinpointed to those in power as well instead of city wide. That right there is a grab of power. His vanity also allowed him to stand up against Jamie when in the sept. If he was truly righteous then the power he would shrug off and his judgements would be against big and small. When his power is threatened he pushes back so that he doesn't lose that power as well. It's not hit you over the head type things, but his actions and words have countered what he says his mission is.


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post #8572 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 04:39 PM
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Speaking of Jamie, that scene where he gallops up the steps was spectacular.
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post #8573 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 05:18 PM
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So, you think Pope Francis fits the bill .. ?? What about a guy named Jesus .. ?? A blanket statement like this is simply wrong .. and I am an Atheist .. I ask again, of anyone, what evidence have we seen that the High Sparrow is anything more or less than what he's shown as .. ??
It was explicitly stated that the High Sparrow sought to have the Crown and the Church be as one. That means secular power for the Church. Martin has based much of GOT on European history. That tells me the HS desires to be the equivalent of a Pope. We all know that they had not only secular power, but armies.
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post #8574 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 05:49 PM
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So, you think Pope Francis fits the bill .. ?? What about a guy named Jesus .. ?? A blanket statement like this is simply wrong .. and I am an Atheist .. I ask again, of anyone, what evidence have we seen that the High Sparrow is anything more or less than what he's shown as .. ??


The fact that the high sparrow changes his tune to get the upper hand on Jamie and Granny Tyrell is telling. He's manipulating the hell out of everyone. He's bad news, I guarantee it. He might be giving our hated subjects their comeuppance right now, but he has an ulterior motive.
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post #8575 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 05:50 PM
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Speaking of Jamie, that scene where he gallops up the steps was spectacular.

I was wondering if that was a stunt double or really the actor himself...it had to be a stunt double as that's a dangerous stunt
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post #8576 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 06:09 PM
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I was wondering if that was a stunt double or really the actor himself...it had to be a stunt double as that's a dangerous stunt

Had to be. Looked great though.
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post #8577 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 06:34 PM
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if Tommen were to die, who is the next *legal* rightful heir to the throne?
Technically speaking, Tommen isn't a legal or rightful heir. He's not a Baratheon, he's a Lannister, which is why both Stannis and Renly went to war against the throne (after Robert was killed) and why Ned Stark was beheaded (because he was dumb enough to tell Cersei he knew her secret). So really, the only two "legal, rightful heirs" to the throne that we know about are Gendry (Robert's bastard) or Daenerys Targaryen.

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Gendry is a bastard though & bastards have little to no claim. Gendry would have to be "de-bastardized" like Ramsay was allowing him to become the Bolton heir. Typically that's been the King with the power to do that & if Tommen is dead that seems a no go. Gendry would need someone powerful who knows his ancestry who was willing to back the long shot to put Gendry on the throne. Not sure who that is.
Bran, because he can see into the past. Although, there must be someone else alive who knew. Who did both John Arryn and Ned Stark confide in about that book that helped them figure it out?

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So, you think Pope Francis fits the bill .. ?? What about a guy named Jesus .. ?? A blanket statement like this is simply wrong .. and I am an Atheist .. I ask again, of anyone, what evidence have we seen that the High Sparrow is anything more or less than what he's shown as .. ??
Oh come on. The Vatican and the Catholic Church is one of the wealthiest organizations on the planet. They have one of the most extensive, and priceless, collections of art in the world. If all those men really believed what they taught, they would sell all that art and give the money to the poor. And in the past the Pope had even more power than a King. You don't get to that point by being naive and not *wanting* power. Just saying.

So, maybe the "High Sparrow" hasn't shown his hand yet, but it sure looked to me like he played everyone very well in this last episode. Get a king on your side, especially a very young, inexperienced and easily influenced king, and see who ends up with the power.
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post #8578 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 06:38 PM
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I was wondering if that was a stunt double or really the actor himself...it had to be a stunt double as that's a dangerous stunt
A lot of actors can ride. Don't know if Nikolaj Coster-Waldau can ride or not, but if he can, it wouldn't be that difficult to do. It did look impressive though.
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post #8579 of 9333 Old 06-01-2016, 06:57 PM
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I was wondering if that was a stunt double or really the actor himself...it had to be a stunt double as that's a dangerous stunt


Heard on a podcast that it was actually the actor.


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post #8580 of 9333 Old 06-02-2016, 03:53 AM
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High Sparrow may be a bad guy, and he almost certainly has ulterior motives, but so what? Under the Lannister rule the people live like slaves, so a change would be better, even if it were to exchange tyranny for religious dogma. This is exactly why religion has a hold on people, it promises them so much. But in the end, the lives of poor people are never improved no matter what lies they are sold, its the way in fantasy and its how the real world works as well.

I'm almost certain the HS will die this season and the Lannisters will survive because without them there would be no Kings Landing story to tell.
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