'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 292 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #8731 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 10:07 AM
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think the show set things up differently then what you saw. Also, Edemure was under control of Jamie (thus the surrender). Blackfish called this out and Brienne wouldn't be as naive to think they just "surrendered". As soon as the surrender happened it was clear what had occurred.


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We will have to disagree since I think it is vastly different than what you saw.

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post #8732 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 10:42 AM
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Meh.. I thought Daenerys will show up with her dragon but burning up the attackers, not quite (yet?)

I guess the showrunners also said: it's a fight in the dark, nothing to show here, better show the loser's face instead...
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post #8733 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 10:52 AM
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Uh...the Tully's surrendered to Jaime. Brienne and Pod left alone on the boat. Not sure what you watched.
We saw the Tully army walking out the front gate still wearing their armor (and no escort was shown). My wife and I took that to mean that they might be headed north per a deal between Edmure and Jaime? Jaime was very much willing to let that happen if Brienne talked the Blackfish down and he obviously wants to help her. Edmure accomplished what Jaime ultimately wanted.. no drawn out battle and he can now go home to Cersei.

I wont be surprised if the Tully's show up next week right when it looks like Jon's army is about to be trampled..

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post #8734 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:07 AM
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We saw the Tully army walking out the front gate still wearing their armor (and no escort was shown). My wife and I took that to mean that they might be headed north per a deal between Edmure and Jaime? Jaime was very much willing to let that happen if Brienne talked the Blackfish down and he obviously wants to help her. Edmure accomplished what Jaime ultimately wanted.. no drawn out battle and he can now go home to Cersei.

I wont be surprised if the Tully's show up next week right when it looks like Jon's army is about to be trampled..
I didn't see a shot of that happening. The only shot of Tully soldiers walking through any gates that I saw had a Lannister escort.

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post #8735 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:11 AM
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that Arya vs Waif showdown was silly...you would think that the Waif would have been trained to fight in the dark as well...it's like Arya had this special ability that no one else in the House of Black and White had...and why would Jaqen just let Arya walk out after all that?...the Faceless Men were made to look silly on the show and I have a feeling GRRM is laughing because the books will have a much more satisfying outcome
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post #8736 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:18 AM
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that Arya vs Waif showdown was silly...you would think that the Waif would have been trained to fight in the dark as well...it's like Arya had this special ability that no one else in the House of Black and White had...and why would Jaqen just let Arya walk out after all that?...the Faceless Men were made to look silly on the show and I have a feeling GRRM is laughing because the books will have a much more satisfying outcome
Arya had to learn to fight while she was blind (blindness was a punishment). We have no idea if the Waif ever had to learn to fight in the dark and we have no reason to believe Arya would have learned it if it hadn't been for her punishment.
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post #8737 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:22 AM
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Arya didn't train to fight in the dark; She had to learn to fight while she was blind (blindness was a punishment). We have no idea if the Waif ever had to learn to fight in the dark and we have no reason to believe Arya would have learned it if it hadn't been for her punishment.

it's the same principle...you're talking semantics...yes Arya was blind but my point was she was then forced to train to fight blind (meaning in complete darkness)...if the Waif was not trained the same way then that would be the most silly thing ever...why on Earth would you train a new assassin to be more powerful then one of your most trusted lieutenants
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post #8738 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:22 AM
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that Arya vs Waif showdown was silly...you would think that the Waif would have been trained to fight in the dark as well...it's like Arya had this special ability that no one else in the House of Black and White had...and why would Jaqen just let Arya walk out after all that?...the Faceless Men were made to look silly on the show and I have a feeling GRRM is laughing because the books will have a much more satisfying outcome
Perhaps her advantage was she had been blinded in the past with much more honed sensory perception. Yes you can "train" all you want in the dark, but your brain knows that it still has that sense when they light returns. Yes, the waif may know how to fight in the dark, but Arya was smart and knew that the advantage was hers by hearing the waif approach her. Do you remember when the waif was abusing her while still without sight? She left a face to the faceless god, and that was her way to leave.
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post #8739 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:25 AM
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I didn't see a shot of that happening. The only shot of Tully soldiers walking through any gates that I saw had a Lannister escort.
You are correct! Just rewatched and they did have a few escorts.

I'm still half expecting them to show up next week. Someone has to pull the Stark army's bacon out of the fire.

Unless it's Petyr.. Hmmm.

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post #8740 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:38 AM
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I thought the look and sound of this week's episode were both startlingly wonderful. I suspect that those who complained that it looked "muddy" have displays with less than great black levels. On my60 inch Pioneer Kuro plasma, the dark scenes were a joy to behold. The surround sound was particularly good too.

I was surprised that several posters were disappointed by this week's show. I loved every minute of it. My only disappointment was that the wonderful Essie Davis, who played Lady Crane, will apparently be seen no more. Davis stars in the wonderful Australian series, Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries. I particularly enjoyed her scene with Arya. Davis does sassy well.

Tommen is a credulous dork for the ages, who gives new meaning to the words, "weak" and "ineffectual."
Well, honestly Trial by combat should be banned. His policy isn't weak, his demeanor is very much so.

An extremely skilled fighter that happens to be a serial rapist/murderer/whatever evil you like can get out of any crime by defeating his lesser skilled opponent.
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post #8741 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:38 AM
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it's the same principle...you're talking semantics...yes Arya was blind but my point was she was then forced to train to fight blind (meaning in complete darkness)...if the Waif was not trained the same way then that would be the most silly thing ever...why on Earth would you train a new assassin to be more powerful then one of your most trusted lieutenants
The show doesn't tell us that fighting in the dark is one of their skills, even though it would make sense for it to be. All the show tells us is that Arya was blinded as a punishment and during that time she had to learn to fight off the Waif. Maybe the Waif was never blinded and again, we have no idea if fighting in the dark is standard training. Whether it should be is just opinion. You can think it's silly but in the context of what the show has given us it's a skill that Arya had and the Waif didn't.
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post #8742 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:42 AM
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...in the context of what the show has given us it's a skill that Arya had and the Waif didn't.

which is my main point and what I think doesn't make a whole lot of sense...there's no way a rookie assassin should have more skills or abilities then a presumably long tenured member of the Faceless Men...plus Arya was always acting out against the principles of the House and rebelling which makes it even crazier that they would continue to train her while she was blind and give her an advantage against them in any situation
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post #8743 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:49 AM
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I don't think the Tully army will be joining the north. Maybe the brotherhood without banners will be the clutch saviors. Unless Jaime sends them, which is very unlikely considering his speach to Edmure. I would like to know what convinced eddy to keep his word. He could have stayed in the castle safely.
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post #8744 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 11:52 AM
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...I would like to know what convinced eddy to keep his word. He could have stayed in the castle safely.

he wants to see his child again...and wife too since she's a hottie...if he had betrayed Jamie then he might have gotten his family killed
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post #8745 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 12:28 PM
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he wants to see his child again...and wife too since she's a hottie...if he had betrayed Jamie then he might have gotten his family killed

I think that when Jamie looked him in the eyes and told him that he did indeed love Cersi, that made him realize what he was missing at home. It wasn't worth the heartache of losing his wife and children.

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post #8746 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 12:44 PM
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I don't think the Tully army will be joining the north. Maybe the brotherhood without banners will be the clutch saviors. Unless Jaime sends them, which is very unlikely considering his speach to Edmure. I would like to know what convinced eddy to keep his word. He could have stayed in the castle safely.
I'm guessing Littlefinger and the little kid will ride in to the rescue.
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post #8747 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 12:57 PM
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We saw the Tully army walking out the front gate still wearing their armor (and no escort was shown). My wife and I took that to mean that they might be headed north per a deal between Edmure and Jaime? Jaime was very much willing to let that happen if Brienne talked the Blackfish down and he obviously wants to help her. Edmure accomplished what Jaime ultimately wanted.. no drawn out battle and he can now go home to Cersei.

I wont be surprised if the Tully's show up next week right when it looks like Jon's army is about to be trampled..
Good, you saw what I saw - I'm not going crazy

If this didn't happen, the end shot would make even less sense. I doubt Jaime and Brienne would be waving at each other like schoolgirls if he just screwed her out of the deal.
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post #8748 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 01:39 PM
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Jamie did not screw Brienne out of a deal.

The deal was, B gets The Blackfish to surrender, and J will allow her and the Tully army to go north. B failed, so no deal.

Edmure then was convinced to surrender via the threat by J to kill E's wife and child, and EVERY remaining Tully. Every ****ing one.

When E surrendered, the command was given to all to "Drop your weapons"

There is no chance that B (Or Pod, for that matter.) were going to disarm, thus they needed to sneak out, thus the boat.

J now has the "Tully Army" as his prisoners, and I saw zero indication that he was letting them go north.

PS. The only marching Tullys I saw were weaponless.
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post #8749 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 01:51 PM
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Jamie did not screw Brienne out of a deal.

The deal was, B gets The Blackfish to surrender, and J will allow her and the Tully army to go north. B failed, so no deal.
I guess we'll find out next week, but if I were Brienne, and I made a deal to get the Blackfish to surrender, and instead it was Edmure Tully that surrendered *to the exact same effect*, and the deal was not still honored? I would certainly not be casually waving goodbye to the person that screwed me over on that deal. At a minimum there would be a middle-finger salute involved!
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post #8750 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 02:02 PM
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I guess we'll find out next week, but if I were Brienne, and I made a deal to get the Blackfish to surrender, and instead it was Edmure Tully that surrendered *to the exact same effect*, and the deal was not still honored? I would certainly not be casually waving goodbye to the person that screwed me over on that deal. At a minimum there would be a middle-finger salute involved!
Why??? By her own code of honor, she did nothing to make that happen. I doubt that character would feel she was owed anything.
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post #8751 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 02:10 PM
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Why would Jaime go out of his way to help the Starks gain strength?

He has to know that if Starks get Winterfell back, eventually they're coming for payback, to the Freys and eventually the Lannisters.

He doesn't know that Jon will be more preoccupied with the WW.
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post #8752 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 02:13 PM
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This episode was slow, but there was a lot of stuff going on under the surface. I think Jamie and Brienne love each other in some way (or perhaps just deeply respect), and that's kind of what that scene was about. It was probably just faster for Brienne and Pod to leave by river instead of going through the camp, otherwise it would've taken time away from her mission and complications may have sidetracked her. And... we never saw the Blackfish's body, so that could be a ruse saying he was dead. Maybe he isn't. If he is dead, it's kind of lame to bring him back just to kill him, but the producers could be setting the story up in Riverrun for something else later on.

Arya... I think in the end she lured the waif to where she wanted to fight her, so she would have the advantage. I don't think she would've been stupid enough to leave a blood trail along the walls (by touching them) if she wasn't setting a trap. Sure, she was caught off guard, and I don't understand why she didn't have Needle with her, but at any rate, I liked the scene between her and Ja'qen. I think he always knew she was Arya Stark, but he liked her and wanted to help her anyway. And the god has a face, and a face is all that's required for payment. As far as her fighting skills in the dark, I would think any assassin would train blindfolded to learn how to fight in the dark, especially professional ones as renouned as the faceless men. You can't rely only your eyes, you have to heighten all your other senses as well, like hearing and smell. Any serious fighter would know that. But, Arya knew the lay of that room, so that gave her an advantage. Who knows. Maybe she set the entire thing up.

LOVED the scene with Bron and Pod. We need more Bron!
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post #8753 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 02:27 PM
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post #8754 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:13 PM
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Good, you saw what I saw - I'm not going crazy

If this didn't happen, the end shot would make even less sense. I doubt Jaime and Brienne would be waving at each other like schoolgirls if he just screwed her out of the deal.
Yeah, that scene was dark lol. Went back and looked again and did see a couple of escorts.

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post #8755 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:22 PM
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I just rewatched this episode. Did anyone else notice how that waif said, "The many faced god was promised a name. He must always receive what is his. You can’t change that. I can’t change that. NO ONE CAN." So if she is "no one" wouldn't that mean she could change the name? Seems so to me.
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post #8756 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:26 PM
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this is what Blackfish Tully should have done...take Jamie's offer and be able to leave Riverrun with his army...then (along with Brienne and Podrick) go and help Jon at Winterfell and make Jon promise that if he wins then he has to help Blackfish re-take Riverrun...win for everybody!
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post #8757 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:27 PM
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I just rewatched this episode. Did anyone else notice how that waif said, "The many faced god was promised a name. He must always receive what is his. You can’t change that. I can’t change that. NO ONE CAN." So if she is "no one" wouldn't that mean she could change the name? Seems so to me.
You seem to be confusing the phrase "no one" used as a name and "no one" used to mean not anyone.
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post #8758 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:30 PM
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I guess we'll find out next week, but if I were Brienne, and I made a deal to get the Blackfish to surrender, and instead it was Edmure Tully that surrendered *to the exact same effect*, and the deal was not still honored? I would certainly not be casually waving goodbye to the person that screwed me over on that deal. At a minimum there would be a middle-finger salute involved!

She made a deal to get the keep on her terms. It failed, Jaime made the surrender happen on his terms. Brienne had nothing to do with their surrender. I also don't think she would have been denied leave of the keep with her arms. They were expecting to leave with blackfish and that didn't happen.

I doubt they could walk behind blackfish up the stairs, him being the only one fighting. "Hey, we're not with him."


For some reason I quoted the wrong post, I'll figure it out later. Too hard to adjust on a phone.
Edit: fixed the quote.

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post #8759 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:35 PM
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Yeah, that scene was dark lol. Went back and looked again and did see a couple of escorts.

wow, I need to re-watch it...I missed the prostitutes...were they naked?...
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post #8760 of 9333 Old 06-13-2016, 04:41 PM
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You seem to be confusing the phrase "no one" used as a name and "no one" used to mean not anyone.
I'm not confusing anything. It just jumped out at me and made sense. They don't use no one as a name, they're the faceless men, they literally are no one. Also, earlier in the series when Arya saved Jaqen and his two companions from death, Jaqen told her three lives had been taken and three were owed, and he killed three people for her, in essence allowing three marked for death to switch places with three others. So apparently "no one" (meaning them) can change that.
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