'Game of Thrones' on HBO HD - NO SPOILERS or Book Discussion - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 10:53 AM
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I'm having a hard time finding a story in this show. I know it's there but it's pretty well buried. Still I stay interested mainly for the weird lore and place. And what's with the weather? The seasons apparently change with no known pattern?
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post #62 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 10:54 AM
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thought it was a good episode even though there wasn't any action. Right now I'm still learning the characters, so more dialogue from them is actually appreciated.

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post #63 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 11:01 AM
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The frame jumps remain for me (Cablevision, Nassau County, Long Island), I was hoping they would be gone. I will not comment again about the jitters, for fear of sounding like a broken record, unless they suddenly go away.

I enjoyed last nights episode very much, as well as Treme that followed.

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post #64 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Vipfreak View Post

I think watching paint dry was more exciting then the last episode of Game of Thrones...

It's opinions like this that have Hollywood churning out crappy stories with mindless action and explosions instead of taking time to really build characters . Slow episode, yes, but boring...not a chance.
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post #65 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 12:53 PM
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I agree - it wasn't action packed, but very entertaining IMO. This is obviously a very intricate story, so the extra exposition when done so exceptionally, is worthwhile to me. I was as intrigued by this episode as the first two. I'd prefer quality to The A-Team meets the Dark Ages.

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post #66 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 01:08 PM
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Once again a very enjoyable episode. What's very intersting to me is what seems to be the rapidly evolving relationship between Daenerys and her hubby Khal, especially now that she's pregnant. This is going in a direction far different than she anticipated, in part because of her own inner strength. It looks like she is going to, if not have a direct say in what he does, at least have some serious influence over it. If I was her weasely brother, I wouldn't push her around or assault her again. The only thing that he'll rule is a six foot hole in the ground
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post #67 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 01:33 PM
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Hhmmm.. expected Dany to gain influence with her Hubby Khal.. just not this quickly.
The warrior put evil Big Brother in his place followed up with... You walk. Hoping those dragon eggs... hatch !!!

Loved the swordplay with the instructor...

The Drawf keeps getting better & better.

The Lanisters vs. the Starks... this will get interesting.
And the Queen advising the Prince...(luv hating the trewp)...
"Anyone who's not Family... is an Enemy".
Does that include the KING ?

We learn the King's brother is still in love with mother Stark... ahh the Wheel turns.

Uncle Ben the first Ranger... whats really on the North side of the WALL ?

Yep... this show's a WINNER !!!
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post #68 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 01:53 PM
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We learn the King's brother is still in love with mother Stark... ahh the Wheel turns.
Petyr Baelish (Littlefinger?), Master of Coin, is the one holding a torch and a few whorehouses for Catelyn Stark...not the King's brother. Personally, I think they cast Catelyn too old. Not that the actress is doing a bad job, but she's definitely faded. Should have been someone closer to Lena Heady's age.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #69 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

Ned being forced to kill Lady is vastly different than gratuitous violence.

The plot point(s)/character "development" had already already been made (in the first episode), therefore the whole scene was un-neccessary (aka. gratuitous.)
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post #70 of 6037 Old 05-02-2011, 11:01 PM
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I love this show and how they take time to develop characters.

I think the Bastard is going to become very important in the future. It don't get any better than the Dwarf.
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post #71 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

And what's with the weather? The seasons apparently change with no known pattern?

Yes. It's like the planet slowly tilts on its axis in an unpredictable manner, sometimes bringing many years of constant summer or winter.
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post #72 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post


The plot point(s)/character "development" had already already been made (in the first episode), therefore the whole scene was un-neccessary (aka. gratuitous.)

Um, no. You've missed that the wolves are very important, having yours killed is not meaningless. It's not about the queen being a bitch, it's how that affects the Starks.
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post #73 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

Um, no. You've missed that the wolves are very important, having yours killed is not meaningless. It's not about the queen being a bitch, it's how that affects the Starks.

+1

It was also a dramatic telling of Stark doing something he obviously knew was both wrong and still required of a King at the same time. The look on his face and the slight hesitation were important IMO. Sorry, I think they are doing a great job. It's not meant to be simple hack-n-slash.

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post #74 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Bonus points for no gratuitous violence toward four footed critters. Seriously, they very nearly lost me at the end of episode two. I think we could have understood that the Lanisters are "less than noble" without that last punch.

You'd better stop watching now. Seriously.

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post #75 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

The plot point(s)/character "development" had already already been made (in the first episode), therefore the whole scene was un-neccessary (aka. gratuitous.)

As others have said, you're missing the point. The direwolf is a sigil of the Stark family. All of the children have one. That Sansa lost hers because she turned her back on her family (even if she thought she had good cause, as Ned explained to Arya), is meaningful on many levels.

If you think the off camera killing of an animal for an important storytelling and thematic point is gratuitous, I'm telling you quite seriously that this show is not going to be for you. Keep watching if you want, but I don't think you're going to enjoy it.

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post #76 of 6037 Old 05-03-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by David F View Post

As others have said, you're missing the point. The direwolf is a sigil of the Stark family..

I thought this was the no spoilers thread.

For the record, I GET THE FRAKING POINT. I just think the point was ... well ... pointless (not to mention redundant and derivative of countless stories that have preceeded this one.)

We are three episodes in, and I haven't seen anything remotely "original" in plot or character development yet.
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post #77 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

We are three episodes in, and I haven't seen anything remotely "original" in plot or character development yet.

- That's due to the fact that we're only three episodes in.
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post #78 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 08:10 AM
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Hoping those dragon eggs... hatch !!!

Wasn't it said in the first episode that the eggs were petrified? I now this is a fantasy world so, anything is possible but, I don't think petrified eggs will hatch. Maybe I'm wrong but, I think I remember one of the characters saying they were petrified during the wedding scene when they were given to her.

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post #79 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post


I thought this was the no spoilers thread.

The fact that dire wolves are the symbol / sigil of House Stark was quite plainly stated in the first episode, when they found the pups. No spoiler here.
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post #80 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:24 AM
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If you think the off camera killing of an animal for an important storytelling and thematic point is gratuitous,.

PS: Hearing an animal cry in pain is not exactly "off screen."

It's weak, cheap and lazy writing ... (and unnecessary)

That having been said, I'm sure it's much less of a putrid "scene" on the printed page (the books) than it is on screen.
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post #81 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

Wasn't it said in the first episode that the eggs were petrified? I now this is a fantasy world so, anything is possible but, I don't think petrified eggs will hatch. Maybe I'm wrong but, I think I remember one of the characters saying they were petrified during the wedding scene when they were given to her.

Yes, it was stated that they're petrified. But maybe the folks who thought that are wrong.
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post #82 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:37 AM
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Yes, it was stated that they're petrified. But maybe the folks who thought that are wrong.

That is what I was thinking as well. Not only do they keep showing the eggs I believe a dragons head is one of the symbols above the map (which also includes a wolf)
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post #83 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:41 AM
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Personally, I think they cast Catelyn too old. Not that the actress is doing a bad job, but she's definitely faded. Should have been someone closer to Lena Heady's age.

I would disagree. To be true to the books, Ned and Catelyn need to be reasonably close in age. It would be wrong if she were 30-35 when Ned is clearly in his 50's. (From the best I can gather in my brief Googling, Fairley is 45 or 46. Sean Bean is 52.)

Also, unlike the more glamorous women of the south's great houses, I think she is supposed to look her age, due to the much harsher conditions of the north. Not every actress is required to be beautiful, anymore than every actor is required to be handsome -- they are required to look right for the role, and "faded" is not wrong for Catelyn. She lives in a land with a harsh climate and has had five children. It would be somewhat silly, IMO, and not true to the realism of the books, if she was still a great beauty untouched by time.
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post #84 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:43 AM
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That is what I was thinking as well. Not only do they keep showing the eggs I believe a dragons head is one of the symbols above the map (which also includes a wolf)

The Dragon is the sigil for the Targarayen family, thus the dragon reference in the opening credits. Other major sigils are:

Lannisters -- Lion
Tullys -- Fish
Baratheon -- Stag
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post #85 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

PS: Hearing an animal cry in pain is not exactly "off screen."

It's weak, cheap and lazy writing ... (and unnecessary)

It was a powerful and revealing scene. It directly demonstrated that there are psychic interconnections between the children and the wolves. It directly demonstrated that Ned will obey the King even in something that hurts his own family. It demonstrated that the wolves trust the Starks. And it was emotionally wrenching, dramatic in its own right.

It established the wolves' importance to the family in a way that had not previously been done.

And nobody who has not seen the rest of the series (which includes everybody here, even you), can judge whether the scene was "necessary" or not. Necessity is revealed by consequences; the ramifications are yet to be shown. If the wolves prove to be a very important element, then that scene will, I imagine, appear vital in retrospect. If Ned's loyalty to the King becomes pivotal, that scene will appear vital in retrospect. If Lady being dead comes to be an issue to the daughter who is now wolf-less, that scene will appear vital in retrospect.

You do seem to be reacting very strongly to the imaginary death of a fantasy animal, almost as if it engages some agenda for you that actually has nothing to do with this show.

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post #86 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 11:03 AM
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Very well said.

For some reason the death of an animal provokes more emotion from many people than the death of a human (great example on the Starship Troopers commentary).

I see no weeping for the butcher's boy - his death is the one that could actually be considered meaningless to the plot.
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post #87 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

PS: Hearing an animal cry in pain is not exactly "off screen."

Your obsession with this scene is getting funny. I say this because in a show that has already had beheadings, rape, incest, animals killing humans, visions of a massacre, a small boy getting hunted and trampled to death by a rider on a horse, a 10 year old kicked from a window, the same boy getting attacked by an assassin while unconscious, and an entire harem of whores having sex with a dwarf for money...THIS is the objectable point for you ...the killing of a Dire Wolf! I can assure you that no animal was actually harmed in that scene simply because those creatures DON'T EXIST.

I thought the shot of them parading the trampled body of the butches son back into town may have been too strong for some, that would seem like a reasonable statement. Forum posts about the suffering of a MYTHICAL CREATURE, or too many naked breasts, are ridiculous given what else has been displayed in the show.

Maybe (and I have not read the books), the killing of that Dire Wolf will have a serious impact later in the story, and the emotion of that scene was in no way "unnecessary".

Wow, "rdclark" posted almost the same comment as I was typing mine. Oh well.
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post #88 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 11:16 AM
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I am one of those people who react very strongly to seeing (furry) animals in pain or dying onscreen -- I really, really hate it. When it's in a movie in a theater, mostly it just makes me want to run home and hug my own pets. So I totally sympathize with those who find animal harm to be particularly upsetting.

That said, I thought it was handled as gracefully as possible. To take it totally offscreen would have been shortchanging the moment.
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post #89 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 11:34 AM
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I would disagree. To be true to the books, Ned and Catelyn need to be reasonably close in age. It would be wrong if she were 30-35 when Ned is clearly in his 50's. (From the best I can gather in my brief Googling, Fairley is 45 or 46. Sean Bean is 52.)

Also, unlike the more glamorous women of the south's great houses, I think she is supposed to look her age, due to the much harsher conditions of the north. Not every actress is required to be beautiful, anymore than every actor is required to be handsome -- they are required to look right for the role, and "faded" is not wrong for Catelyn. She lives in a land with a harsh climate and has had five children. It would be somewhat silly, IMO, and not true to the realism of the books, if she was still a great beauty untouched by time.

Good post. Actually, I considered that before I posted. I think, both you and I have read the books. They've aged up the characters somewhat and I have no problem with that. In my mind's eye, she's younger, slightly faded, but a contemporary of Cersei, maybe slightly older. Michelle Fairley looks closer to SBs true age, perhaps older (even if she's not). That's probably a showrunner choice and I'm not trying to be shallow here. I just have a disconnect with her appearance...it's minor.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #90 of 6037 Old 05-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

PS: Hearing an animal cry in pain is not exactly "off screen."

It's weak, cheap and lazy writing ... (and unnecessary)

That having been said, I'm sure it's much less of a putrid "scene" on the printed page (the books) than it is on screen.

You couldn't be more wrong about this scene and it seems most agree with me on this point. There is nothing weak, cheap or lazy about it and it was absolutely necessary. Just because you don't understand why it happened doesn't make it unnecessary.
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