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post #2881 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

He's with the enemy now. The Night's Watch wouldn't voluntarily let him and his wildlings in with him. Thus, sneaking over the wall which apparently is not that uncommon.

I would agree with this and add that he is not 100% with them, so he only tells them what they ask for. The only way they would a battle is with the element of surprise, otherwise the men left back would probably be abel to defend the castle and the entrance without taking many losses. The mroe you funnel through a tight space the easier they are to pick off and kill en masse. If you hit them by surprsie though you may be able to take control of the entrance, get enough men through and control the high ground as well as funnel enough men to take the castle....
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post #2882 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by spike jones View Post

Funny, it looked like only four of them made it.

It was only a small "force" to begin with not the entire army wink.gif more of a scouting party IMO
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post #2883 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Forgive me is this was stated already, I need to hurry today.

Why didn't Jon Snow just go through the door in the wall he used initially to enter the north side of the wall with is whole group? They showed them all coming out a secret door last season. Why not just go back that way?

If you think the door is just *open*, I wonder why you think there's a wall there in the first place! biggrin.gif
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post #2884 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

I'm impressed how some of you can watch these eps and retain some of the more obscure facts. I watch each show at least twice, but the series is so cleverly written and challenges you to figure things out ( not much on a silver platter) that it is maybe the most rewarding television series I can recall.

To keep up with you super knowledgeable folks, guess I need to read the books and purchase season 1 & 2.

Thanks for all the help

I agree with Tulsa just watch on HBOGO smile.gif although I must say the Blu-rays are breathtaking and some of the audio is eek.gif

I've only read the 1st 2 books, I find them more of a tool and I only read them after the respective seasons were over. This show along with Fringe are ones that are easier for me to remember and on repeat viewings I often pick up on things that I missed (little looks etc)..I knwo a lot of people have gotten into the habbit of surfing the web or doing other things while "watching" TV, me I am 100% invested into the show I am watching if I like it. If there are distractions going on then I tend to loose focus and then all bets are off wink.gif This show like Rubicon and Fringe I think deserves my 100% attention so I tend to stay off the computer and put away the gadgets so I can watch the show and focus on it.
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post #2885 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 10:24 AM
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I believe there is a scene in the second season where she confesses to someone her actions. Whenever I get around to a rewatch I'll look out for it.

Found it yet? The Sansa character is so stupid--like all Stark's can be at times--it might be possible she did something like that in the book, but I don't think you'll find it on the show. There really wasn't anyone for her to confess to in season 2--mostly she just played along with whatever Joffrey and the Queen wanted. Now there was a scene in season 1 where she appeared before Joffrey and the Queen to plead mercy for her father after he was betrayed in the thrown room--saying he was under the influence of poppy milk...she had no idea what was going on, so in her mind that might have made sense...now that I think about it--does she know what's going on now? Does she know any of it???? Like why Bran was pushed out the window--does she even know he was pushed out the window, or does she think he just fell? Does she know Joffrey is a false king as far as bloodlines go, and that's why her father tried to remove him? Does she know that Littlefinger was the one that betrayed her father? Now that I think about, it bothers me that she hasn't been interested enough to find out these things--to do a little investigating.

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post #2886 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Forgive me is this was stated already, I need to hurry today.

Why didn't Jon Snow just go through the door in the wall he used initially to enter the north side of the wall with is whole group? They showed them all coming out a secret door last season. Why not just go back that way?

His garage wall remote control ran out of batteries. smile.gif

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post #2887 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TulsaCoker View Post

No need to purchase season 1 or 2 mr. wally...just use HBO Go to see them anytime you want if you have already deleted them smile.gif that's what I do

Yes. I watched all 3 seasons between the last ep and the previous one.
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post #2888 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

Found it yet? The Sansa character is so stupid--like all Stark's can be at times--it might be possible she did something like that in the book, but I don't think you'll find it on the show. There really wasn't anyone for her to confess to in season 2--mostly she just played along with whatever Joffrey and the Queen wanted. Now there was a scene in season 1 where she appeared before Joffrey and the Queen to plead mercy for her father after he was betrayed in the thrown room--saying he was under the influence of poppy milk...she had no idea what was going on, so in her mind that might have made sense...now that I think about it--does she know what's going on now? Does she know any of it???? Like why Bran was pushed out the window--does she even know he was pushed out the window, or does she think he just fell? Does she know Joffrey is a false king as far as bloodlines go, and that's why her father tried to remove him? Does she know that Littlefinger was the one that betrayed her father? Now that I think about, it bothers me that she hasn't been interested enough to find out these things--to do a little investigating.

Does Bran know he was pushed out of the window?
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post #2889 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 01:01 PM
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His garage wall remote control ran out of batteries. smile.gif

biggrin.gif You beat me to it no fair!!!!
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post #2890 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 01:51 PM
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Does Bran know he was pushed out of the window?

good point.

Does Ned know his head was cut off? biggrin.gif

 

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post #2891 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 03:11 PM
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The Wall is very high and almost impossible to climb. It was built to keep the North out. Some wildings are brave and skillful enough to climb it, but not without mishap, as we saw in the episode. On the south side there are ways to get to the top without climbing; there are also gates those on the south side can use to go to the north. There is none of that on the north side because it would defeat the purpose of the wall. Atain, its purpose is to keep the north out. To sum up: south to north, easy. North to south, not so much.Jon would not show his captors where the gates are or open them because it would be a betrayal of his fellow crows. And yes, that comes from the series-one doesn't need to read the books to understand,

As far as Sansa telling the Queen about Ned's plan, I knew she had by the end of the first season and I hadn't read the book yet.So its in there.

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post #2892 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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you know what kinda bugged me is the way the king of the family whose daughter Robb was supposed to marry (frey?)

came running back to provide Robb with his men for his army.

ya think the king woulda been a little more pissed and demanded a whole lot more.

that just seemed too convenient to me, he loses half his army and, voila, new soldiers are readily available.

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post #2893 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

you know what kinda bugged me is the way the king of the family whose daughter Robb was supposed to marry (frey?)

came running back to provide Robb with his men for his army.

ya think the king woulda been a little more pissed and demanded a whole lot more.

that just seemed too convenient to me, he loses half his army and, voila, new soldiers are readily available.
- Edmure Tully noted that Walder Frey has been trying to marry him to one of his daughters. Most likely to get rid of another Frey out of his household and to establish a marriage to one of the more powerful houses of the North.
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post #2894 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

you know what kinda bugged me is the way the king of the family whose daughter Robb was supposed to marry (frey?)

came running back to provide Robb with his men for his army.

ya think the king woulda been a little more pissed and demanded a whole lot more.

that just seemed too convenient to me, he loses half his army and, voila, new soldiers are readily available.


As its been pointed out, and we ahve seen talked about and shown Walter Frey has been trying to marryoff one or more of his daughters for some time now. Whiel this is not as good as his daughter marrying Robb, it would be a marraige to on of the more powerful famlies in teh North. This would give him ties and make his name\bloodline more powerful.

I am sure walter is miffed at what happened, but lets face it no one is visiting the and offering up thier sons or daughters for marraige into that family.
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post #2895 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

Found it yet? The Sansa character is so stupid--like all Stark's can be at times--it might be possible she did something like that in the book, but I don't think you'll find it on the show. There really wasn't anyone for her to confess to in season 2--mostly she just played along with whatever Joffrey and the Queen wanted. Now there was a scene in season 1 where she appeared before Joffrey and the Queen to plead mercy for her father after he was betrayed in the thrown room--saying he was under the influence of poppy milk...she had no idea what was going on, so in her mind that might have made sense...now that I think about it--does she know what's going on now? Does she know any of it???? Like why Bran was pushed out the window--does she even know he was pushed out the window, or does she think he just fell? Does she know Joffrey is a false king as far as bloodlines go, and that's why her father tried to remove him? Does she know that Littlefinger was the one that betrayed her father? Now that I think about, it bothers me that she hasn't been interested enough to find out these things--to do a little investigating.


Sansa is a prisoner. She may have some free reign to do certain things and visit certain people, but she's not free to do whatever she wants. Like go home, or investigate the truth behind her father's beheading. When the king tells you your father is a traitor, he's a traitor.

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post #2896 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 08:07 PM
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Sansa is a prisoner. She may have some free reign to do certain things and visit certain people, but she's not free to do whatever she wants. Like go home, or investigate the truth behind her father's beheading. When the king tells you your father is a traitor, he's a traitor.

I don't see why you quoted me. There is nothing in my post you're responding to as far as I can tell?

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post #2897 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 08:23 PM
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I probably picked the wrong post, let me find the post I wanted.

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post #2898 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post



I don't see why you quoted me. There is nothing in my post you're responding to as far as I can tell?

Last sentence of your post:

"Now that I think about, it bothers me that she hasn't been interested enough to find out these things--to do a little investigating."
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post #2899 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 08:45 PM
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Walder Frey also gets Harrenhal out of the new deal.
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post #2900 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Last sentence of your post:

"Now that I think about, it bothers me that she hasn't been interested enough to find out these things--to do a little investigating."

I edited the quoted post, I had originally quoted one of his posts by mistake.

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post #2901 of 6039 Old 05-07-2013, 11:05 PM
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Walder Frey also gets Harrenhal out of the new deal.

Seems like everyone gets Harrenhal but no one really wants it.

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post #2902 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 01:04 AM
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As far as Sansa telling the Queen about Ned's plan, I knew she had by the end of the first season and I hadn't read the book yet.So its in there.

Sorry, but you are mistaken...it's not in the show. When the Lannisters attacked the Starks, Arya managed to get away, but the Hound found Sansa and brought her before the Queen and the council. Of course they lied to her and told her Ned is a traitor--she was so stupid she still thought it possible to live happily ever after with Joffrey--and the Queen used her stupidity and fear over what would happen to her father, to get her to write a letter to her brother...that's all I could find that comes even remotely close to her having a meeting with the queen--but she never divulged any plans...at that point there wasn't anything to divulge--and honestly, the girl is clueless anyway...On the show anyway.

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post #2903 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 01:23 AM
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Something I wasn't very clear on: was it not Cersei who tried to have Tyrion killed by Ser Mandon? When Tyrion asked her about it she turned away and got silent. I took her silence as guilt but Tyrion seemed to gather from her reaction that it was actually Joffrey who gave the order. Did I understand that correctly? Cersei wasn't involved?

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post #2904 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 01:49 AM
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Something I wasn't very clear on: was it not Cersei who tried to have Tyrion killed by Ser Mandon? When Tyrion asked her about it she turned away and got silent. I took her silence as guilt but Tyrion seemed to gather from her reaction that it was actually Joffrey who gave the order. Did I understand that correctly? Cersei wasn't involved?

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That's a good question. I'm wondering if it really was Joffrey...because If that's what happened, I guess Viserys was playing Tyrion? It does seem plausible, afterall Tyrion's always treated Joffrey like a biotch lol

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post #2905 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 04:28 AM
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If you think the door is just *open*, I wonder why you think there's a wall there in the first place! biggrin.gif

Why wouldn't a member of night watch NOT know how to get back in? This is not the first time they have gone to this side of the wall as they indicated over and over in this show and they obviously did not climb back.

Plus, for those saying he didn't want to open the door for them. So instead, he risks his life and the life of the person he has falling for by climbing the wall and just hoping he doesn't fall to his death. The point of getting to the top was so he can let this group of people attack. So once they got to the top what would he do, run away? No, he is going to let them attack. Why take all the risk climbing instead of just going to the door, having them open it and then attack. The end result is the same, he is letting them attack.

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post #2906 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 05:00 AM
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Why wouldn't a member of night watch NOT know how to get back in? This is not the first time they have gone to this side of the wall as they indicated over and over in this show and they obviously did not climb back.

Plus, for those saying he didn't want to open the door for them. So instead, he risks his life and the life of the person he has falling for by climbing the wall and just hoping he doesn't fall to his death. The point of getting to the top was so he can let this group of people attack. So once they got to the top what would he do, run away? No, he is going to let them attack. Why take all the risk climbing instead of just going to the door, having them open it and then attack. The end result is the same, he is letting them attack.

From the north they have to come with the entire army and push through a closed entrance that is easily defensible and he has no way, if he chooses to alert people of the oncoming attack. From the top with just three others he can either try and find an easier way to let Mance and the army in or he can turn back(ygritte even tells us she knows he is still loyal to the watch) and let the watch know of the plan to be even more prepared.

Yes he risks his life climbing but he risks it just as much walking through a defended door as a traitor.

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post #2907 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 05:03 AM
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....and because the gates of the wall are guarded and they weren't just going to let him through with a bunch of wildings to take control of the wall from the crows.
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post #2908 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 07:09 AM
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I have a different take on Jon Snow and the Wall climb. Remember when the wildlings asked Jon which places were guarded? The wall is very long and they picked a spot (not Jon) to climb where it's not guarded. Look at the scene where they reach the top and the lookout was abandon for a long time. The Nightswatch does not guard the entire wall just three spots if memory serves me. I'm assuming then they would open the gate from the other side and let the wildlings army in. Just my take of it.
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post #2909 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 07:16 AM
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I have a different take on Jon Snow and the Wall climb. Remember when the wildlings asked Jon which places were guarded? The wall is very long and they picked a spot (not Jon) to climb where it's not guarded. Look at the scene where they reach the top and the lookout was abandon for a long time. The Nightswatch does not guard the entire wall just three spots if memory serves me. I'm assuming then they would open the gate from the other side and let the wildlings army in. Just my take of it.

I think that's more or less what we are saying.

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post #2910 of 6039 Old 05-08-2013, 07:19 AM
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Seems like everyone gets Harrenhal but no one really wants it.

Given it's a half-built ruin in the middle of a swamp...I can understand why...
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