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post #241 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 06:31 AM
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So, I wonder if the son's girlfriend is still pregnant, and if his boss is still a crook, and who his real partner is...I didn't see how they were going to be able to wrap everything up in the time they had left, but the beauty of an ending like that is, they don't have to. All they had to do was wake him up. Shades of Bobby Ewing.
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post #242 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 06:43 AM
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I was almost expecting an "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" finale as last night's episode came to a close.

All the activity on the LOST thread recently had brought that short story to mind......

So much for that idea!
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post #243 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandron View Post

So, I wonder if the son's girlfriend is still pregnant, and if his boss is still a crook, and who his real partner is...I didn't see how they were going to be able to wrap everything up in the time they had left, but the beauty of an ending like that is, they don't have to. All they had to do was wake him up. Shades of Bobby Ewing.

Or they could have pulled a "Newhart" and had Michael wake up and come downstairs to see Kath, all pouty (and probably beat up), trying to make small talk with Rose.
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post #244 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dave1216 View Post

What the heck? Dreams within dreams to solve all this. Not sure where the reality ended up. All the bad guys still waiting to get caught? Interesting through.

Did you see "Inception"?
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post #245 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 07:28 AM
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I will go with Bobby Ewing theory and therefore not satisying.
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post #246 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 07:38 AM
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I prefer to think that he devolved into the full-on psychotic break that Dr. Lee mentioned.
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post #247 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post

I prefer to think that he devolved into the full-on psychotic break that Dr. Lee mentioned.

What makes me think that this is supposed to be 'reality' was that fact that, at the end, we got proper, unfiltered color, as if the two worlds had blended together. So, I think, he simply woke up.
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post #248 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 08:25 AM
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Well, I don't think there are actual rules for this sort of thing! He still could have merged the two worlds in his mind. Anyways, for me, it just seems more fitting if it was a pyschotic break.
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post #249 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 08:32 AM
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Personally since this show had to end after one season I actually liked how it finished. Here's a good, long interview with Kyle Killen the show creator done last night after the finale aired. It covers a lot of things including some thoughts on how the show ended, and his feelings about serialized shows on network TV in general.

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...or-kyle-killen

I believe he's purposely a little non committal about the two worlds simply because he wanted to leave the feeling open ended since it had to end there. However he's adamant that the finale ended exactly where it was designed when he pitched the show initially. That was not changed to accommodate the series coming to a close and they had planned on continuing on from there in S2 if there had been one.

I think we saw Britton finally being forced to choose the "real" reality in order to close out the case against the captain as was shown in the cool/green world, as the Cherry Jones shrink outlined at the end. From there I think he simply couldn't let his wife go though and his tenuous psyche simply regressed further and went on to create another "dream" world were both son and wife were alive instead of accepting reality.

If sounds from reading his answers that they would have continued on exploring a season of that new "state" of his mind in the second season, but to tell you the truth I think it would have been less interesting since we would have known what was going on (more or less ). That's why I think having it end where it did actually worked out for the best in the end. To me the interesting thing was exploring how his mind was dealing and what was going on with him from that standpoint. If you know ahead of time the general idea it becomes less interesting to me anyway.


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post #250 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandron View Post

What makes me think that this is supposed to be 'reality' was that fact that, at the end, we got proper, unfiltered color, as if the two worlds had blended together. So, I think, he simply woke up.

That was what I initially thought too but on thinking more about it I think that was probably supposed to signify his new "complete" world where he once again had everything.


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Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post

Well, I don't think there are actual rules for this sort of thing! He still could have merged the two worlds in his mind. Anyways, for me, it just seems more fitting if it was a pyschotic break.

I agree.


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post #251 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 09:09 AM
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Some more interesting quotes from Killen and Isaacs in this article:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/05/24/aw...-jason-isaacs/

Quote:


One thing Isaacs will confirm: One of those worlds is a dream, he says. It's not a rip in the fabric of time. It's not string theory. It was nothing more or less extraordinary than a man who had been in a terrible car crash and could not bear to lose either his wife or his son, so he unconsciously constructed a whole universe in his head. It is a man who is teetering under the weight of this psychological denial.

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In the creator's and star's minds, they definitely saved the best for last: Britten's still fighting for his life in one world, and in the other world, he doesn't know that he's walked right into the heart of the conspiracy against him. He's asked his Captain [Laura Innes], one of the very people who was trying to get rid of him, for help. So there's just as much explosive craziness in this episode as the last one, but it then takes itself to a whole other level when it becomes about Britten's state of mind, Killen says. Adds Isaacs, When the script came in, I had to go down to the writers building and check that they weren't all drinking because I felt they had really finally gone insane. This very tenuous hold that Britten's had on his sanity all this time begins to fray. It's clear that you're watching a guy with deep psychological problems from the beginning but he's a pretty good cop in both worlds, and he's a reasonable father and a reasonable husband, and he managed to hold it all together because he's that kind of alpha male. I can promise you by the end, he's not holding very much together at all. I hope everyone's just sitting there in silence for 10 minutes thinking, Whew, I couldn't have taken anymore of that. Hopefully, your brains and hearts will hurt.


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post #252 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 10:03 AM
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If you'll notice the last shot when the camera is behind him and his kid is on one side of his head and his wife is on the other side of his head it could imply he did combine the two dreams into one.
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post #253 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRM4 View Post

If you'll notice the last shot when the camera is behind him and his kid is on one side of his head and his wife is on the other side of his head it could imply he did combine the two dreams into one.

That's what I got when he lay down on himself in bed and merged into one. Then when he woke he wasn't wearing either rubber band on his wrist.
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post #254 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 10:25 AM
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the series finale of Awake was one of the better series enders I've ever seen...I know it wasn't intended to be a series finale when it was shot but they did an amazing job of wrapping up and explaining a lot...one of the 'realities' is definitely a dream and the ending definitely made it seem like the one with his wife was a dream...the final scene with Dr. Evans freezing in time- that conversation was a dream Britten was using to reboot a new dream world- one in which he didn't need to wear a wristband because both Hannah and Rex are alive

he loved his wife and son so much that his mind couldn't cope with the 'reality' that one of them was dead...mental breakdown or fractured psyche but in the end this show was all about the pain of losing someone you love...Jason Issacs was absolutely amazing in this and deserves Emmy consideration...somebody hire him immediately for another show

the show was an innovative concept but it may have been too clever for its own good...we were lucky to have something this challenging and original, if only for 13 episodes...the series ender episode title was 'Turtles all the way Down' and if you want to know what that means check out the Wikipedia link...interesting, mind bending stuff...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

basically the idea of infinite regress is where to prove one proposition, you need another proposition, which in turn requires another, and so on ad infinitum...there is no provable reality, only the infinite string of attempts to prove the reality, like mirrors facing each other
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post #255 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 10:31 AM
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I was hoping he'd wake up as Laura Innes in prison.
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post #256 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the series finale of Awake was one of the better series enders I've ever seen...I know it wasn't intended to be a series finale when it was shot but they did an amazing job of wrapping up and explaining a lot...one of the 'realities' is definitely a dream and the ending definitely made it seem like the one with his wife was a dream...the final scene with Dr. Evans freezing in time- that conversation was a dream Britten was using to reboot a new dream world- one in which he didn't need to wear a wristband because both Hannah and Rex are alive

he loved his wife and son so much that his mind couldn't cope with the 'reality' that one of them was dead...mental breakdown or fractured psyche but in the end this show was all about the pain of losing someone you love...Jason Issacs was absolutely amazing in this and deserves Emmy consideration...somebody hire him immediately for another show

the show was an innovative concept but it may have been too clever for its own good...we were lucky to have something this challenging and original, if only for 13 episodes...the series ender episode title was 'Turtles all the way Down' and if you want to know what that means check out the Wikipedia link...interesting, mind bending stuff...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

basically the idea of infinite regress is where to prove one proposition, you need another proposition, which in turn requires another, and so on ad infinitum...there is no provable reality, only the infinite string of attempts to prove the reality, like mirrors facing each other

Yes, that all sounds about right to me. I am really glad we got to see it as well but I think I'm happy that all we got was the first 13. In fact, I think that it probably would have been most effective if it could have been tightened up and turned into something like a 8-9 hour miniseries with the exact same ending. Some of the dual reality procedural stuff was necessary to show the progression and build on it, but a lot of it could have been condensed and it would have made much more even viewing.

I remember Damon Lindelof invoking the Turtles All The Way Down conundrum in answering a question about part of their reasoning for not answering many of the peripheral questions about the LOST world . His point was that they would have only brought up more questions and lead down a bunch of paths that didn't directly relate to the main focus of the show anyway, which was the character's personal journeys.


ron
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post #257 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce73 View Post

Or they could have pulled a "Newhart" and had Michael wake up and come downstairs to see Kath, all pouty (and probably beat up), trying to make small talk with Rose.

Heh.

(And they're all in a snow globe)
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post #258 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 01:37 PM
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In fact, I think that it probably would have been most effective if it could have been tightened up and turned into something like a 8-9 hour miniseries with the exact same ending. Some of the dual reality procedural stuff was necessary to show the progression and build on it, but a lot of it could have been condensed and it would have made much more even viewing.

I remember Damon Lindelof invoking the Turtles All The Way Down conundrum in answering a question about part of their reasoning for not answering many of the peripheral questions about the LOST world . His point was that they would have only brought up more questions and lead down a bunch of paths that didn't directly relate to the main focus of the show anyway, which was the character's personal journeys.

If he really said that then he can go frak himself. That's all the did for five frakking seasons and then to bring it up as a reason not to continue doing it? Fraaaak that.

Anyhoo, I do agree that it should have been a miniseries though. It could have then gotten away from some of the boring police-procedural stuff and focused on his family. I didn't know how a concept like this would work as a series, and while interesting, the premise's flaws were definitely on display as the series progressed. I thought it was okay, but it could have been so much better.
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post #259 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 01:47 PM
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Just for a minute I though he was dead and his wife and son were alive

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - C.G.Jung

 

 

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post #260 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 02:32 PM
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If he really said that then he can go frak himself. That's all the did for five frakking seasons and then to bring it up as a reason not to continue doing it? Fraaaak that.

Anyhoo, I do agree that it should have been a miniseries though. It could have then gotten away from some of the boring police-procedural stuff and focused on his family. I didn't know how a concept like this would work as a series, and while interesting, the premise's flaws were definitely on display as the series progressed. I thought it was okay, but it could have been so much better.

Don't be such a moob. Take your butt hurt crap and go commiserate in the proper thread where it belongs with all the rest of the LOST whiners . It's not his fault if a certain segment of fools got themselves way carried over the top with a bunch of stuff that was never central to the main focus of the show anyway. If they weren't intelligent enough to figure out what the show was actually supposed to be about that was their problem not his


ron
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post #261 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 03:15 PM
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series creator Kyle Killen discusses finale...some interesting analysis...

http://tvline.com/2012/05/25/awake-s...ions-answered/
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post #262 of 270 Old 05-25-2012, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

the series finale of Awake was one of the better series enders I've ever seen...I know it wasn't intended to be a series finale when it was shot but they did an amazing job of wrapping up and explaining a lot...one of the 'realities' is definitely a dream and the ending definitely made it seem like the one with his wife was a dream...the final scene with Dr. Evans freezing in time- that conversation was a dream Britten was using to reboot a new dream world- one in which he didn't need to wear a wristband because both Hannah and Rex are alive

he loved his wife and son so much that his mind couldn't cope with the 'reality' that one of them was dead...mental breakdown or fractured psyche but in the end this show was all about the pain of losing someone you love...Jason Issacs was absolutely amazing in this and deserves Emmy consideration...somebody hire him immediately for another show

the show was an innovative concept but it may have been too clever for its own good...we were lucky to have something this challenging and original, if only for 13 episodes...the series ender episode title was 'Turtles all the way Down' and if you want to know what that means check out the Wikipedia link...interesting, mind bending stuff...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

basically the idea of infinite regress is where to prove one proposition, you need another proposition, which in turn requires another, and so on ad infinitum...there is no provable reality, only the infinite string of attempts to prove the reality, like mirrors facing each other

Yeah, to me it's pretty clear that as soon as the Dr. says "You've done it" and he goes whoa whoa whoa, that he decides he's not ready to "straighten up" so to speak. She's frozen, and he enters into the next mind puzzle, one with both members of his family still alive. Too bad that was it for the series, though.
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post #263 of 270 Old 05-26-2012, 02:24 PM
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Don't be such a moob. Take your butt hurt crap and go commiserate in the proper thread where it belongs with all the rest of the LOST whiners . It's not his fault if a certain segment of fools got themselves way carried over the top with a bunch of stuff that was never central to the main focus of the show anyway. If they weren't intelligent enough to figure out what the show was actually supposed to be about that was their problem not his


ron

Lost was as much about the characters as Awake was about the cases they solved.
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post #264 of 270 Old 06-15-2012, 03:30 AM
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From the "Hot Off The Press" Thread (top of 'HDTV Programming' page) cool.gif

Critic's Notes
'Awake' Musings And Thoughts On New Fall 2012 TV Shows
By Maureen Ryan, HuffingtonPost.com

I've been spending a lot of time this week watching pilots for broadcast network shows that will air next season.

They're a varied bunch, but they've done two things particularly well: Firstly, the pilots have made me appreciate even more what what the weird, evocative "Awake" accomplished in its first and only season. And secondly, they've made me wonder if any of the new shows will achieve the kind of visual and emotional poetry that "Awake" did. I'm not completely finished watching the pilots the networks sent (and they didn't send all of them), but I'm sadly of the belief that that'll be a bar that the frequently pallid new offerings won't be able to clear.

I suppose it's understandable that the broadcast networks have (not for the first time) retreated into competent, unexceptional and inoffensive formulas, caught as they are between a rock and a hard place. As Nielsen-measured audiences dwindle (and they dwindled significantly this past season) and as ambitious fare like "Terra Nova" and "Smash" ran aground, the big networks have fewer and fewer options: They can continue to cater to the audiences of a bunch of cult-y shows with passionate viewerships, or they can keep on bland-ifying or lamely tarting up their offerings, in desperate bids to get everyone -- anyone? -- to keep coming around.

Talk about a no-win situation. But all the hedging, de-weirding and focus-grouping ultimately means that the viewers lose the most. (Check out the HuffPost TV staff's thoughts on NBC's pilots and Fox's pilots for proof; more quick reactions to other network pilots -- a few of which may have some potential -- are coming next week.)

This crop of pilots reflects the dilemma of networks who've been burned in attempts to engineer big-tent hits in a media landscape that is more friendly to tiny, small and medium-sized tents on a growing array of platforms. With these new shows, it looks as if the whole goal is not to draw people in with something distinctive, but to refrain from offending people with ideas or formats that might be unfamiliar to them. But does anyone really think the future lies in lowest-common-denominator, purposefully non-distinctive fare?

I don't think all network executives truly think that. To paraphrase something Agent Coulson said in "The Avengers," the networks lack conviction. I don't sense that their hearts are in many of these shows (aside from the excellent new ABC drama "Last Resort," and I think creators Shawn Ryan and Karl Gajdusek are responsible for the conspicuous sense of momentum that show has). Still, whatever the cause, the majority of new shows aren't even memorably awful or weird. They're just there.

You can't say that about "Awake." Sure, it was yet another variation on a cop procedural, but "Awake" did not lack conviction; if it had one flaw, it's that it had too many convictions bursting out of its procedural shell (so many that it gladly dropped the case of the week by the end). The NBC show, which starred Jason Isaacs as a cop who spent time in two different realities, wanted to provide viewers with a relatively interesting case of the week -- if not two -- but it also worked really hard to function as a meditation on how memory works and why its demands can be both a burden and a blessing.

The manipulation of time and memory has been a fruitful source of storytelling for an array of ambitious storytellers: "Inception" is the big kahuna of the genre in the film world, but "Lost," "Fringe," "Dollhouse" and "Doctor Who" have told incredibly poignant ongoing stories in this realm. In an era in which identities are constantly shaped, pruned and massaged, the idea of having our minds and souls examined and edited by anyone (even ourselves) is both addictive and terrifying.

"Awake" creator Kyle Killen was clearly fascinated by the question of how we mold our identities by sifting through our recollections and pursuing certain emotional bonds, sometimes past the point of reason. And if there's one thing I absolutely loved about "Awake," it's that it went batshit insane toward the end, as cop Michael Britten's two worlds began to melt and collide. Things got gloriously, ambiguously, emotionally weird, and that's a term I don't think I'll get to use often when it comes to next year's new dramas.

I'll give my specific thoughts on the final episodes past a spoiler warning below, because I really want people to go back and watch "Awake," if they haven't already. From about "Ricky's Taco's" onward, "Awake" had a much better sense of the array of things it was trying to do. It set up mysteries, but, for example, in the very strong episode "Nightswimming," the question was about whether an informant's wife was a greedy woman or merely someone whose memories of a simpler life were tearing her apart. The show wasn't about the nitty-gritty of police work, though the investigations clicked along nicely; the drama was more of a rumination on the nature of obsession and how we try (and sometimes fail) to keep connections alive.

The best episodes didn't focus on bad guys per se, and that's why "Awake" was never going to be a good fit for network television. The show managed a bigger challenge better: It derived a great deal of dramatic and emotional tension from the question of whether you can and should trust your own mind and impressions. Isaacs' hangdog, wounded quality --and the character's relentless perseverance in the face his bizarre double life -- was a perfect fit for this show: Even in scenes without dialogue, you knew this guy would never give up or lose track of what he was trying to hold on to, even if facts and memories started to collide in bizarre and unsettling ways.

For all its obsessional tendencies, thanks to its subtle but impressive visual style, "Awake" retained a lyrical sense of atmosphere, and that dreamy quality, which it had from the start, was another of its finest accomplishments. Though I think it got a little over-enamored of its timey-wimey ambitions right at the end, you never really forgot that Britten's quest wasn't about "closure," but about raging against death, about keeping his memories and experiences of his son and wife alive as long as possible, even at the cost of his career and almost everything else in his life.

Not surprisingly, the cop's dual therapists were often the weakest parts of the show; they were sidelined more and more because they were just there to rain on Britten's metaphysical parade, and who needed that when there were tension-filled ambiguities to be explored? If anything, the season functioned as something of a repudiation of certain allegedly therapeutic ideas about "closure": Is there anything more condescending than a therapist saying the words, "I think what's happening is real to you." Those last two words are really just twists of the knife, designed to reinforce the speakers superior knowledge of what's real, but Britten clung to the idea that nobody was allowed to pass judgment on his experiences. Besides, haven't there been, in history, some paranoid people whose ramblings turned out to be absolutely right? Britten's tragic fate is that he was just one of those guys. It was all real to him, and who are we to tell him otherwise?

I highly recommend that you watch the episodes that are up on Hulu and NBC.com (and if you have Hulu Plus and can watch from "Nightswimming" onward, all the better), but I'm not necessarily lamenting that "Awake" is over. I honestly don't know what the second season of this show would have been, or if it could have built fruitfully on what the first season eventually became. There's only so many times you can flip reality on its head and rewire characters' connections, as "Fringe" found in its less gripping fourth season.

"Awake" is what it is, and, as Emily Nussbaum once said on Twitter, it was a turducken, a glorious turducken, bound for extinction, but what a ride: It started out strange and got stranger, but in a good way.

So what if it often overstretched and tried to do too much, especially in the patchy early-to-middle section of the season, when it couldn't quite cover all its bases? So what if I agree with basically everyone who thinks Kyle Killen should migrate to cable, where one of his next shows will undoubtedly be a much-loved cult gem that succeeds over multiple seasons? "Awake" gave me hope that wonderfully weird hybrids get to occasionally exist on the big networks, which, I want to state clearly, I want to survive. Sure, of course, let them have those big-tent hits (if that's even possible), but the true glory of this declining era is the fact when networks relax, relent and let the weird kids have a turn and keep the odd ducks around, they sometimes become not-so-out-there institutions.

I just hope the broadcast networks realize that small ball is, over the long term, a loser's game. The more entertainment devices people have, the more nervous the networks become about their role in the world, and the safer their choices. But why not swing for the fences? Sure, hedge your bets with sexy doctors and grim D.A.s, but why not get a little weird too? If now's not the time to embrace subversiveness, boldness and distinctive visions, when exactly do the networks think that moment will arrive?

As Britten might have told them, they should make the most of the time they have left.

Specific thoughts on the "Awake" finale are below. Read on if you've seen the final episodes of the first and final season.

If you saw me clutching my head and rocking in the fetal position during Season 5 of "Lost," you know I'm not always a fan of the M.C. Escher school of time-and-memory shenanigans. Still, I absolutely loved the moment in the "Awake" finale when Britten was talking to Wilder Valderrama in a penguin suit (that gets my vote for the strangest thing to happen on NBC this year, aside from the "Smash" musical number about method acting). From that moment on, I was very much on board with the loopy but rigorous finale. And overall, I was glad that the show had the courage of its convictions and showed incredibly divergent outcomes for the detective in the two different realms: betrayed and jailed in one world, relatively able to wrap up loose ends in the other (at first, anyway). Remembering isn't always a panacea, as Britten found.

Prior to that, the Kevin Weisman/Det. Ed Hawkins story and the way the show's overall mythology took over worked very well toward the end of the season; there was so much good, old-fashioned tension and mystery about seeing where the things would go and I love a good, well-structured mythology that starts to eat everything in its path. In the final hours of "Awake's" season, however, I occasionally got the sense that the machinery was taking over and the ride became somewhat less emotionally engaging here and there, though Isaacs played the hell out of everything he was given, especially Britten's rage at being locked up and betrayed.

I know from this interview with Alan Sepinwall what Killen meant by the finale scene, in which Britten saw both his wife and son still alive; sadly, I'm one of the probably few audience members who didn't quite get what was going on when that actually happened. I wanted it to land for me; it just didn't because I was too confused. The previous scene with Cherry Jones' shrink started to stray into dangerous territory (it wasn't as bad as the Architect scene in "The Matrix Reloaded," but it gave me similar heebie-jeebies). Once Britten was with his family again, I thought that moment negated everything I'd seen before and that the accident had never happened. So my response to that last image was, "Hunh"?

Now I understand that Michael had constructed a third reality in his mind, but I was a little sad that it took a post-finale interview for me to get that. Still, that relatively small disappointment doesn't take away from the fact that "Awake" was a wonderfully intelligent attempt to infuse a genre stalwart -- the cop show -- with ambitious ideas and credible emotional payoffs. Overall, I enjoyed the second half of the season quite a bit, and did I mention that Wilmer Vaderrama wore a penguin suit? And that both actors played that moment sensationally straight? I could hug "Awake" for that, and for having a vision at all, instead of having a formula and sticking to it.

All that being said, I'm not so much mourning the loss of this show (well, maybe a little) as I'm looking forward to Killen's next endeavor. See you on the other side, Britten fans.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-ryan/awake-nbc-fall-tv-2012_b_1579320.html?utm_hp_ref=maureen-ryan
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post #265 of 270 Old 06-15-2012, 05:00 AM
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"Now I understand that Michael had constructed a third reality in his mind, but I was a little sad that it took a post-finale interview for me to get that."

If I hadn't read this thread my wife and I would have continued to think as we did when the last ep ended "what a cop-out, the whole season was one big dream"...I bet that's what a lot of folks who stayed with the show but never read the "exit interview" also think.
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post #266 of 270 Old 06-15-2012, 11:57 AM
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Lost was as much about the characters as Awake was about the cases they solved.

LOL. That's exactly the LOST hater "logic" I meant. For six seasons the producers told us over and over and over that the core of the show was all about the characters and their personal journeys. But a large number of deluded fans apparently could not grasp that reality due to their own overblown and massively anal obsession with the surrounding story setting and all of it's minutia. Flashbacks? All about the characters' personal story lines showing how each of them were flawed, LOST and in need of direction in one way or another. Flashforwards? Largely about those same ongoing issues taken to the future. Sideways? Entirely about the characters ending path of redemption and finding themselves. The present? A study of how all those flawed characters were thrown together and impacted each others' lives in the process of "finding their way" in their lives.

Now apparently that basic concept was a bit too deep and over the heads of many simple fans who never could see the forest for the trees and instead were solely focused on finding answers to things that didn't really matter to the outcome of the core story. What exactly did those pesky numbers mean, what group of people built the statue on the beach, who was shooting at Sawyer in the outrigger, or who really was Widmore etc?. Fun and totally enjoyable stuff to ponder of course, but never more than supporting "richness" surrounding the main story of the characters' personal journey's in search of redemption and finding their own positive path in their lives.

I remember trying over and over to explain to one stubborn and misguided fool that the numbers were never meant to be more than a fun, easter egg type thing, and having said poster nearly go over the deep end trying to argue that they had to mean something rolleyes.gif. Another poster spent literally hundreds of hours concocting elaborate and extensive scenarios to explain the island phenomena in a pointless search of uncovering the "answers", when it was clear that the exact nature of island stuff was never meant to be the main focus in the first place, if you were actually paying attention instead of nerding/geeking out on the details.

I can't fault those poor saps for enjoying the minutia. It was highly imaginative and enveloping. But when they blame the producers for their own massive over obsession with the supporting story and background structure, and their inability to lighten up and simply enjoy the ride without such gravity, it's pretty hilarious and more than a little pathetic. They deserve nothing more than to wallow in their self made unhappiness tongue.gif


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post #267 of 270 Old 06-15-2012, 12:46 PM
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C'mon Ron, time to quit lording it over all us philistines who wanted something more out of LOST than the "personal journeys" of the characters ending in a saccharin purgatory. Seriously, their lives weren't that interesting. They only became interesting in the context of the events happening on and because of the Island. If not for the inexorable build-up of mysteries and intrigue, nobody would have cared about the characters, or the show for that matter. Except maybe you, so happy day. For most of the rest of us, we just wanted the show to end as strongly as it began. It didn't. But that doesn't make us "misguided fools" (really?rolleyes.gif). It just makes us disappointed that a show that could have been one of the all time greats instead limped off the field with a whimper. If the creators of the show hadn't intended it to be about the mysteries, they shouldn't have spent the first 5 seasons crafting them in such equisite detail. It was like all foreplay with no climax. wink.gif

This show, on the other hand, started weak but finished strong, but by then they didn't have much of an audience left. The 'Dollhouse' model - one of Mo's favorites (mine too!).
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post #268 of 270 Old 06-16-2012, 11:19 PM
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Anyone know if there's plans for the now "complete series" to be released on DVD or Blu-Ray?

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post #269 of 270 Old 06-20-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by R11 View Post

LOL. That's exactly the LOST hater "logic" I meant. For six seasons the producers told us over and over and over that the core of the show was all about the characters and their personal journeys. But a large number of deluded fans apparently could not grasp that reality due to their own overblown and massively anal obsession with the surrounding story setting and all of it's minutia. Flashbacks? All about the characters' personal story lines showing how each of them were flawed, LOST and in need of direction in one way or another. Flashforwards? Largely about those same ongoing issues taken to the future. Sideways? Entirely about the characters ending path of redemption and finding themselves. The present? A study of how all those flawed characters were thrown together and impacted each others' lives in the process of "finding their way" in their lives.
Now apparently that basic concept was a bit too deep and over the heads of many simple fans who never could see the forest for the trees and instead were solely focused on finding answers to things that didn't really matter to the outcome of the core story. What exactly did those pesky numbers mean, what group of people built the statue on the beach, who was shooting at Sawyer in the outrigger, or who really was Widmore etc?. Fun and totally enjoyable stuff to ponder of course, but never more than supporting "richness" surrounding the main story of the characters' personal journey's in search of redemption and finding their own positive path in their lives.
I remember trying over and over to explain to one stubborn and misguided fool that the numbers were never meant to be more than a fun, easter egg type thing, and having said poster nearly go over the deep end trying to argue that they had to mean something rolleyes.gif. Another poster spent literally hundreds of hours concocting elaborate and extensive scenarios to explain the island phenomena in a pointless search of uncovering the "answers", when it was clear that the exact nature of island stuff was never meant to be the main focus in the first place, if you were actually paying attention instead of nerding/geeking out on the details.
I can't fault those poor saps for enjoying the minutia. It was highly imaginative and enveloping. But when they blame the producers for their own massive over obsession with the supporting story and background structure, and their inability to lighten up and simply enjoy the ride without such gravity, it's pretty hilarious and more than a little pathetic. They deserve nothing more than to wallow in their self made unhappiness tongue.gif
ron
This whole post was incredibly uncalled-for, and it's sad that we've been reduced to name-calling those that disagree about the show's conclusion. Not to mention that it had nothing to do with Awake's ending.

I think Awake was yet another in a long line of niche shows that don't belong on mainstream network TV - the audience numbers will never justify its position. Why more producers of these shows don't simply bypass the networks for cable is beyond me, but I think that's the conclusion that could be reached - leave the junk to the networks, put the quality on cable where it belongs. It's long past the time when getting a show on a network should be considered the brass ring, IMO.
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post #270 of 270 Old 06-20-2012, 02:26 PM
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This whole post was incredibly uncalled-for, and it's sad that we've been reduced to name-calling those that disagree about the show's conclusion. Not to mention that it had nothing to do with Awake's ending.
I think Awake was yet another in a long line of niche shows that don't belong on mainstream network TV - the audience numbers will never justify its position. Why more producers of these shows don't simply bypass the networks for cable is beyond me, but I think that's the conclusion that could be reached - leave the junk to the networks, put the quality on cable where it belongs. It's long past the time when getting a show on a network should be considered the brass ring, IMO.

Very true. Broadcast TV has become a race to the bottom, lowest-common-denominator programming. Anything that requires a modicum of attention be paid will never attract the audience necessary to survive there. The masses increasingly prefer mindless pablum, and the broadcast nets are happy to deliver product suited to their glazed eyeballs.

Killen's 0 for 2 on the Big Four now. It's pretty clear he belongs on cable where his kind of creativity is rewarded, not punished.
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