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post #1081 of 1775 Old 12-16-2012, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Touching.
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post #1082 of 1775 Old 12-16-2012, 08:22 PM
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I like where the story ended up, but it was fairly lame getting there.
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post #1083 of 1775 Old 12-16-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

so this was all part of Nazir's master plan right?...when he kidnapped Brody they never showed us exactly what went down between the 2 of them...so Brody was in on everything?...or maybe...did anyone see the movie Arlington Road?...if so I could see that twisty ending being applied to Homeland
Brody and Carrie living happily ever after doesn't seem like a reality and since Nazir was killed in the next to last episode something big is planned for next week...Brody pulling off a master act of terrorism or maybe Carrie being unwittingly set up as the terrorist and blowing up the CIA (ala Arlington Road)

who's gonna give me half props? ...high five?...no one?... biggrin.gif

the Arlington Road reference was almost spot on...for people that have never seen that movie and really enjoy shows like Homeland, go rent the movie...the movie is excellent just for the ending alone

what's interesting is that to me is seemed obvious at the end that Saul was revealed as the mole and the guy behind the explosion...but apparently others don't see it as being as clear cut...at first I thought he was speaking in Arabic before Carrie walked in but apparently it was a Jewish mourning prayer...still I believe that the show was telling us that Saul is the bad guy...why else would he want so badly for Estes to call off the hit on Brody?...he needed Brody alive to pin the blame on the terrorist attack...it has to be Saul right?...otherwise why end on that scene with him smiling at Carrie?

fade to black
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post #1084 of 1775 Old 12-16-2012, 11:22 PM
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He was happy that she was still alive? She has been like a daughter to him and the desperation in his voice when he made the phone call to Carrie just expounded on that. He thought he had lost her, but seeing her alive was the 1st bit of good news that he had got since the attack.

IMO Brody is innocent in the attack, just a pawn in the bigger game. He really didn't know what was going on until he pieced everything together and told Carrie.

Great episode btw and I think much more on track with what made this show great to begin with. The only thing I wish they'd show was Quinn's reaction to the attack after making such a strong move on Brody's behalf.
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post #1085 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 01:24 AM
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I don't really know who to trust anymore. I don't know if the writers are just toying with us, but the whole ending with Saul saying the prayer and then that weird ass smirk he had on his face made me wonder if he had something to do with it. And why did Brody just happen to leave the building with Carrie and just happen to notice his car "had been moved" at the last moment? It all just seems to be too much of a coincidence or the writers just want us to think one thing when something else happened (probably).
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post #1086 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 02:36 AM
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saul's wife did it...



wink.gif

leo d.
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post #1087 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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The part where Saul was standing in the room with the 200 dead bodies was emotional. Such a big hit! eek.gif
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post #1088 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 06:38 AM
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Carrie and Brody sneaking furtive glances at each other during the memorial was a bit odd. Had they planned to sneak out for a quickie? That seems a bit disrespectful during a memorial. (Though Brody hated the guy.) And certainly noticeable to others in attendance.

Had Brody cooked up a reason for them to both leave that crowded room (thus protecting her) because he knew what was coming? Carrie was a bit giddy in the corridor on their way to what appeared to be Saul's office for their conversation and make-out session.

Saul was apparently quietly speaking a Jewish prayer for the dead as Carrie arrived. I believe the captions identified it as the Kaddish. Certainly sounded Hebrew or Aramaic.

Whether Brody was complicit or not, someone else with good access was obviously involved because they had the means to move his SUV.

I'm having trouble with them driving out of there like they did. A bomb goes off AT LANGLEY and the whole complex isn't on instant lockdown? Instead, our star-crossed lovers have a few minutes to shake the cobwebs out after being knocked on their behinds, argue with a gun on Brody, make assertions of innocence, and roam the smoke-filled hallways before getting away.

Bet Brody wishes he never made that dead drop with the SD card with his suicide video. Nice of Nazir to script that loosely enough that it would work for a vest bomb or car bomb scenario.
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post #1089 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 07:10 AM
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Next season Brody makes his way back to Jihadiland, infiltrates the nest of Muzzie scum and feeds back details to his sweetie who has been irrationally welcomed by Saul back into the CIA and made station chief in the Mid-East somewhere despite her unexplained absence during and after the bombing. Saul being a mole would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? Therefore, it's a good bet.

.........

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post #1090 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 08:07 AM
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Fantastic season finale . I'm not one to get caught up on the details .... after all it's TV . In real life there's no way Brody and Carrie get out of Langley after such an explosion.

I don't think for a second that Saul is the mole .... the writer may make him the mole , but it's not who he is . He's an honest man through and through . The scene with all the bodies laid out was very intense , especially after what just took place in real life in CT on Friday .

Saul was reciting what is know as "mourners kaddish" . It's said in Hebrew . My opinion is that it shows what kind of genuine person Saul is . He's standing there in a sea of dead bodies ... doing what nobody else would ever think of doing .

this link will explain what the "mourners kaddish " is about . http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/kaddish.html

Is Saul top dog at the CIA with Carrie right under him , next season ? or do they bring someone in to be above Saul ?
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post #1091 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 09:37 AM
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i agree with Stocky, no way Saul is the mole. He's worked too long to get where he's at to turn.

when are they going to question Carrie on her whereabouts right after the explosion and when/how did she return? does she say she went home and fell asleep, waking up to the news?
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post #1092 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 09:50 AM
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I'm guessing the CIA compound there has a lot of video survelience and it's stored in a server somewhere else (hence not destroyed on the explosion)..

Someone has to see when and if they placed explosives on Brody's vehicle, then moved the vehicle near the memorial building, because they check all vehicles at the entrance right?

I laughed a bit when both Brody and Carrie saved their lives over a "quickie"

RIP Mom, we always love you 8/18/13
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post #1093 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

what's interesting is that to me is seemed obvious at the end that Saul was revealed as the mole and the guy behind the explosion...but apparently others don't see it as being as clear cut...at first I thought he was speaking in Arabic before Carrie walked in but apparently it was a Jewish mourning prayer...

That's correct. So why would a Muslim extremist be standing there, with nobody else around, reciting a Jewish prayer for the dead? Saul is not the mole, and he's not Muslim.
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still I believe that the show was telling us that Saul is the bad guy...why else would he want so badly for Estes to call off the hit on Brody?...

Because he doesn't think the CIA should be in the business of assassinating American citizens, particularly on American soil, particularly when that person had a deal with the CIA and met its terms and helped to kill a notorious terrorist?
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he needed Brody alive to pin the blame on the terrorist attack...it has to be Saul right?

Not so much...
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...otherwise why end on that scene with him smiling at Carrie?

Because he loves her like a daughter and was very, very glad to see her alive.
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post #1094 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ToddR View Post

Carrie and Brody sneaking furtive glances at each other during the memorial was a bit odd. Had they planned to sneak out for a quickie? That seems a bit disrespectful during a memorial. (Though Brody hated the guy.) And certainly noticeable to others in attendance.
Had Brody cooked up a reason for them to both leave that crowded room (thus protecting her) because he knew what was coming? Carrie was a bit giddy in the corridor on their way to what appeared to be Saul's office for their conversation and make-out session.

Saul was apparently quietly speaking a Jewish prayer for the dead as Carrie arrived. I believe the captions identified it as the Kaddish. Certainly sounded Hebrew or Aramaic.
Whether Brody was complicit or not, someone else with good access was obviously involved because they had the means to move his SUV.
I'm having trouble with them driving out of there like they did. A bomb goes off AT LANGLEY and the whole complex isn't on instant lockdown? Instead, our star-crossed lovers have a few minutes to shake the cobwebs out after being knocked on their behinds, argue with a gun on Brody, make assertions of innocence, and roam the smoke-filled hallways before getting away.
Bet Brody wishes he never made that dead drop with the SD card with his suicide video. Nice of Nazir to script that loosely enough that it would work for a vest bomb or car bomb scenario.

Nice posting.

Interesting in bold. Makes you wonder.
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post #1095 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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So much content in last night's show. I don't even know where to start. Saul's reciting of the Kaddish was his way of mourning and showing respect for the dead, many of whom he undoubtedly knew and nothing more than that. I believe that he said Kaddish once before during the course of the series but I can't recall the details. After Roya and her team got rolled up, I had wondered about whether Nazir had sacrificed them as part of a test of Brody's loyalty. I might have been correct about the sacrifice but not about the reasons for it. If Nazir had a larger master plan in mind, did he also sacrifice himself in the service of that plan? He's gone and the level of security alertness might have slipped, allowing his organization to execute the attack on the CIA. Like Brody said to Carrie, Nazir hated Walden and the CIA almost equally. If there really was a feint one way and then go for the bigger prize the other way plan, it seems to me that Nazir was playing three dimensional chess while the CIA was playing tic tac toe. How about Quinn and his decision not to carry out his orders to kill Brody. His conversation with Estes was fascinating and his threat, emphasized by his gun with the silencer, was quite palpable. I like the way in which he told Estes in no uncertain terms that his job was to kill the bad guys, with Estes now meeting that description. It would have been nice to delve a bit more into Quinn's motives. He is, after all, a professional assassin and questionning or disregarding orders usually wouldn't be part of his DNA. It was a helluva way to end this season and next season promises to be just as off the chain as this one, if not more so.
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post #1096 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Lots of gifs and .jpegs floating around now. I like this one tongue.gif

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post #1097 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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Lots of gifs and .jpegs floating around now. I like this one tongue.gif

This one is genius! This was probably inspired by the Jack Bauer email screen shots someone was making that managed to hit every plot hole in that season of 24.

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post #1098 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 11:01 AM
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Makes sense. Also, did anyone else notice how mad Saul got when Carrie said she was going to the memorial with Brody? Saul trying to plead with her not to be with him. If he knew that place was going to blow then he was trying to do whatever he could to make sure she wouldn't be there.
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post #1099 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 11:45 AM
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Just what I love: a completely sudden and inexplicable development. How did the explosives get in Brody's car? Who moved it (Saul by remote control)?

The writers apparently figured that they needed to end the season with a big-enough bang and decided they'd use the off-season to figure out how it must have happened. After all, if they end up not being able to come up with a scenario that isn't totally laughable they can always make it a dream, right? smile.gif
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post #1100 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 12:27 PM
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IMO Brody is innocent in the attack, just a pawn in the bigger game. He really didn't know what was going on until he pieced everything together and told Carrie.

My guess (probably until I see it again) is that this was Brody's second attempt at a suicide bombing. Before the memorial, Brody has a quick trip to the cabin with Carrie just like old times. He prays to Allah for the first time (we've seen) in a long time. He's somewhat dismissive when Carrie starts talking about long term plans together. He buys Mike a beer and tells him that he can go back to taking care of Jess and the kids (sounds a little more than a divorce in the works here). Just before Brody heads to the memorial, Dana shows off her ESP abilities and out of nowhere brings up that time when he was getting dressed with the bomb vest.

Just like last season, Brody chickens out at the last moment. Brody sits and waits for death and everlasting life but then decides he wants to live, so he decides to split and signals for Carrie to come too (you don't leave in the middle of a memorial service!). Brody takes Carrie to someplace where he thinks they'll be safe from the explosion. Uh oh, that bomb! Now that he's going to live, what will Carrie think when they figure out it was his car? Think think think, Brody!

"Hey, somebody moved my car!" Isn't that an odd thing to notice when you're about to have sex? It will convince a bipolar woman with the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old girl but no one else. Boom! Looks like he timed it a little too close. Of course stupid stupid stupid Carrie buys his story that unknown terrorists are framing him for a similar crime he almost committed. No one else will. Hey, what did you and Nazir talk about when you went on the helicopter ride?

This was a great way to get us back into questioning Brody's true allegiances but it was also obviously designed to keep the character on the show. Also I wish they could hire someone who can write dialog that doesn't belong in a daytime soap opera.

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post #1101 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 12:40 PM
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My guess (probably until I see it again) is that this was Brody's second attempt at a suicide bombing. Before the memorial, Brody has a quick trip to the cabin with Carrie just like old times. He prays to Allah for the first time (we've seen) in a long time. He's somewhat dismissive when Carrie starts talking about long term plans together. He buys Mike a beer and tells him that he can go back to taking care of Jess and the kids (sounds a little more than a divorce in the works here). Just before Brody heads to the memorial, Dana shows off her ESP abilities and out of nowhere brings up that time when he was getting dressed with the bomb vest.
Just like last season, Brody chickens out at the last moment. Brody sits and waits for death and everlasting life but then decides he wants to live, so he decides to split and signals for Carrie to come too (you don't leave in the middle of a memorial service!). Brody takes Carrie to someplace where he thinks they'll be safe from the explosion. Uh oh, that bomb! Now that he's going to live, what will Carrie think when they figure out it was his car? Think think think, Brody!
"Hey, somebody moved my car!" Isn't that an odd thing to notice when you're about to have sex? It will convince a bipolar woman with the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old girl but no one else. Boom! Looks like he timed it a little too close. Of course stupid stupid stupid Carrie buys his story that unknown terrorists are framing him for a similar crime he almost committed. No one else will. Hey, what did you and Nazir talk about when you went on the helicopter ride?
This was a great way to get us back into questioning Brody's true allegiances but it was also obviously designed to keep the character on the show. Also I wish they could hire someone who can write dialog that doesn't belong in a daytime soap opera.
I agree and think it was Brody; at least that's the only thing that makes any sense. The only good part of the episode, IMO was when Carrie seemed to come to her senses and suspected it was him. Unfortunately it was followed by more of the nauseous love festering.

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post #1102 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 02:11 PM
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and did Quinn just suddenly get cold feet to shoot Brody in the back while he was praying? or are the two in on the CIA bombing?
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post #1103 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 02:55 PM
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post #1104 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 04:02 PM
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and did Quinn just suddenly get cold feet to shoot Brody in the back while he was praying? or are the two in on the CIA bombing?

That would be a neat twist but the more I listen to the podcast from writer/producer Alex Gansa, the less I think that any of the clever explanations we've come up with are possible. He talks like Carrie and Brody are the Greatest Love of All and they're totally honest with each other now, thus Brody was framed and everything was exactly as it seemed. I really hope the guy is just setting us up for some twists next season because this season didn't leave much suspense about what the characters would do. So many important things that happened were the result of unknown actions by unknown people off camera.

On that note, what was the deal about Dar Adal? You don't remember him? They got F. Murray Abraham to appear in a couple of episodes as some mysterious CIA mastermind pulling the strings behind the curtain, then his character just disappeared.

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post #1105 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Didn't see the explosion coming.. Will the agents try to tie the C-4 to the Gettysburg supply? I find it strange that a super secret agency like the CIA would host a memorial in its own building and not somewhere else..

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post #1106 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 05:15 PM
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That would be a neat twist but the more I listen to the podcast from writer/producer Alex Gansa, the less I think that any of the clever explanations we've come up with are possible. He talks like Carrie and Brody are the Greatest Love of All and they're totally honest with each other now, thus Brody was framed and everything was exactly as it seemed. I really hope the guy is just setting us up for some twists next season because this season didn't leave much suspense about what the characters would do. So many important things that happened were the result of unknown actions by unknown people off camera.
On that note, what was the deal about Dar Adal? You don't remember him? They got F. Murray Abraham to appear in a couple of episodes as some mysterious CIA mastermind pulling the strings behind the curtain, then his character just disappeared.

Well from what Ive read, at leas tone of the producers didnt like whaen they were totally honest with each other and felt the best scenes were when both were hiding something and had other agendas....They have left the door open as far as Brody which was done on purpose, as well as a few other people......I thought it was funny that they mentioned people looking for meaning in things that were face value, so instead of searching for some hidden meaning sometimes things are just as they look ;-)......There will def be less Brody next season as they may focus on Carrie and Saul rebuilding the CIA (which could have a major wrench if FMA (see below) gets added as a regular.....Brody while still present is on the run so I dont expect to see much of his character and they may possibly pocket him until a latter season (if there are any) which I think would be a good idea.....

As far as FMA goes from what I have read they hope to sign him for next season to utilize his charcter, they probably couldnt either afford or come to an agreement this season with him which is why we saw so little of him......
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post #1107 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post

My guess (probably until I see it again) is that this was Brody's second attempt at a suicide bombing. Before the memorial, Brody has a quick trip to the cabin with Carrie just like old times. He prays to Allah for the first time (we've seen) in a long time. He's somewhat dismissive when Carrie starts talking about long term plans together. He buys Mike a beer and tells him that he can go back to taking care of Jess and the kids (sounds a little more than a divorce in the works here). Just before Brody heads to the memorial, Dana shows off her ESP abilities and out of nowhere brings up that time when he was getting dressed with the bomb vest.
Just like last season, Brody chickens out at the last moment. Brody sits and waits for death and everlasting life but then decides he wants to live, so he decides to split and signals for Carrie to come too (you don't leave in the middle of a memorial service!). Brody takes Carrie to someplace where he thinks they'll be safe from the explosion. Uh oh, that bomb! Now that he's going to live, what will Carrie think when they figure out it was his car? Think think think, Brody!
"Hey, somebody moved my car!" Isn't that an odd thing to notice when you're about to have sex? It will convince a bipolar woman with the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old girl but no one else. Boom! Looks like he timed it a little too close. Of course stupid stupid stupid Carrie buys his story that unknown terrorists are framing him for a similar crime he almost committed. No one else will. Hey, what did you and Nazir talk about when you went on the helicopter ride?
This was a great way to get us back into questioning Brody's true allegiances but it was also obviously designed to keep the character on the show. Also I wish they could hire someone who can write dialog that doesn't belong in a daytime soap opera.

They left it open on purpose, we do know that...Brody however I dont think was involved this time....The motives were not there, as his main target (the VP) was already dead....If Brody was involved it would still eman he had an accomplice as we saw him park his SUV before he entered the service. Im not sure about odd, when he looked out the window and saw his SUV parked in front of the building, that seems pretty normal to me (regardles of the situation) Jsut as things out of place seem to throw people off here, the car being out of place took Brody out of the moment.......Maybe if the line had been "is that my car???? it would have been better for you?......

Im not sure I see it the same way as far as Dana goes, but then I dont ahve the dislike towards her character that you do......It seemd pretty organic with her discussion with Brody (which Brody finally came out and told her the truth) and when she put two and two together when the FBI was there......
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post #1108 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

Didn't see the explosion coming.. Will the agents try to tie the C-4 to the Gettysburg supply? I find it strange that a super secret agency like the CIA would host a memorial in its own building and not somewhere else..

Saul said as much (as far as testing the C4 goes...He has a line to one of the agents where he asks him to test the residue\truck for a match to the C4 from Gettysburg......With the VP being former CIA and this still being a high value target, it may come under the "assumption" from the writers that this was one of the safest places to hold the memorial....
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post #1109 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 06:45 PM
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First, as we have seen over and over again on Homeland, nobody knows Brody like his daughter, Dana. Dana flatly told the pissed off CIA guys that her daddy wasn't responsible for the CIA atrocity. I believed her.

I loved the way the scenes in the early part of the show played out. When Quinn had Brody centered in his rifle's telescopic sight, I thought that Quinn of all people should realize than Brody was no longer a national security threat but was no more than a political liability to Estes' future career. Consequently, I really enjoyed Quinn's scene in Estes' bedroom in which Quinn said just that and told Estes he would kill him if Estes didn't call off the hit on Brody. Like Quinn, I am now satisfied that Brody really isn't a terrorist anymore. In this connection, I confess that I couldn't help but feeling a little glad that the murderous careerist, Estes, was one of the victims of the terrorist attack on CIA headquarters.

Poor Carrie! Seeing her trapped between her love for Brody and her devotion to her job overlaid with her emotional fragility, has been heartbreaking. Although she has decided to return to the CIA, she is paying a big price for her loyalty to the agency. Claire Danes performance as Carrie in the finale was wonderful.

I trust Saul. I think he has a moral compass and would never, ever, do anything that threatened the security of the United States.

I thought the Season 2 finale was deeply satisfying and one of the all time best episodes of the series. I am really looking forward to Season 3.
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post #1110 of 1775 Old 12-17-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I like where the story ended up, but it was fairly lame getting there.

I agree with this in part... the episodes leading up to the finale seemed kinda flat. Having said that, maybe that was part of the plan? Lull us into a false sense of security, then BAM! Jump start the plot again the last half of the show. The sequence of events really tied up the less eventful parts of the story arc nicely. So maybe Nazir wasn't as much of a dunce as I thought he was.

There must've been quite a bit of stuff in the terrorist part of the storyline that unfolded off-camera, considering what happened.

I also like that there's enough uncertainty around Brody's involvement that it could really go either way i.e. whether he was privy to the plan or not. It could even be that he knew only a little bit more than he has disclosed, but was genuinely in the dark about the bombing itself i.e. he was definitely used and sacrificed.

Season 3 is just ripe with so many different possibilities and directions the writers/producers could follow.
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