"Hell on Wheels" on AMC HD - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 720 Old 12-04-2011, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Young C View Post

Good episode tonight.
I'm glad nobody was killed or seriously injured at the fight.

What did they put into his eyes? Salt and pepper?

Pepper. The Irish guy bought a bag full of what looked like red cayenne peppers just before the fight.


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post #92 of 720 Old 12-05-2011, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Pepper. The Irish guy bought a bag full of what looked like red cayenne peppers just before the fight.

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.
Thanks!
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post #93 of 720 Old 12-05-2011, 06:36 AM
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This show is not afraid to get Brutal...nice twist with the pepper and betting.
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post #94 of 720 Old 12-05-2011, 01:02 PM
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Another good episode!

I was right about Mrs. Bell and the maps....she's playing it safe so no one can take advantage of her.

I'm still waiting to see some action from The Swede, or could it be he's all talk (which woulldn't necessarily be a bad thing, for he seems to make a pretty good Scandinavian Gestapo Agent).

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post #95 of 720 Old 12-06-2011, 07:18 AM
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Looks like I am in the minority here. Didn't like this episode at all. Getting tired of the whole theme of the black man being put down, etc. Yes we know they were slaves, they were free, they had a hard time, they were looked down on, they still have a hard time, etc. etc. but to just beat us over the head every episode is getting old. Plus, if someone was out of line as often as that black guy is, he would of been disciplined, shot, etc. loooong ago. He needs to be put into his place, constantly defying orders, and doing what he wants. Getting old fast.

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post #96 of 720 Old 12-06-2011, 08:12 AM
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Looks like I am in the minority here. Didn't like this episode at all. Getting tired of the whole theme of the black man being put down, etc. Yes we know they were slaves, they were free, they had a hard time, they were looked down on, they still have a hard time, etc. etc. but to just beat us over the head every episode is getting old. Plus, if someone was out of line as often as that black guy is, he would of been disciplined, shot, etc. loooong ago. He needs to be put into his place, constantly defying orders, and doing what he wants. Getting old fast.

I can't help but think that you are too focused on one issue and this is preventing you from enjoying the *rest* of the episode. In the last episode it was a mere few seconds where two men were shooting at each other and now (in the present episode) it's the racism. Granted, this subject (i.e., racism) took up a fair amount of running time, but there were still many more things going on than that for you to appreciate. Methinks you're definitely a "the glass is half empty" kind of guy.

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post #97 of 720 Old 12-06-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I can't help but think that you are too focused on one issue and this is preventing you from enjoying the *rest* of the episode. In the last episode it was a mere few seconds where two men were shooting at each other and now (in the present episode) it's the racism. Granted, this subject (i.e., racism) took up a fair amount of running time, but there were still many more things going on than that for you to appreciate. Methinks you're definitely a "the glass is half empty" kind of guy.

Possibly, but its hard to enjoy the rest when it keeps happening, its running parts of the show, which is dragging me down. And I sooooooo love westerns/cowboy shows, etc. This is an awesome show, don't get me wrong. I love it and in for the long haul, but man, sometimes it is enough already with the beat us over the head.

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post #98 of 720 Old 12-06-2011, 02:44 PM
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Possibly, but its hard to enjoy the rest when it keeps happening, its running parts of the show, which is dragging me down. And I sooooooo love westerns/cowboy shows, etc. This is an awesome show, don't get me wrong. I love it and in for the long haul, but man, sometimes it is enough already with the beat us over the head.

You're not alone. Some of the TV critics have made similar complaints. I'm sure though that in the days following the civil war, it was a common issue being played out in day to day life. The railroads were built by black slaves and Chinese slaves. Any story that fails to tell us about that daily strife would be less than genuine.
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post #99 of 720 Old 12-07-2011, 11:41 AM
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The railroads were built by black slaves and Chinese slaves.

No. The railroads were mostly built by paid Chinese and Irish laborers.
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post #100 of 720 Old 12-07-2011, 11:54 AM
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No. The railroads were mostly built by paid Chinese and Irish laborers.

Remember right now in the show they haven't gotten to the Rocky Mountains yet, also if I remember right there was an east and west team ...
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post #101 of 720 Old 12-07-2011, 12:19 PM
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Remember right now in the show they haven't gotten to the Rocky Mountains yet, also if I remember right there was an east and west team ...

Correct. The west coast spur was manned by boatloads of Chinese slaves. Those folk's descendants are the people who populated "Chinatowns" all over the west.

The east coast spur was manned by whomever they could get and former black slaves were a big part of it.
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post #102 of 720 Old 12-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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The west coast spur was manned by boatloads of Chinese slaves.

Wrong. They were paid employees. They were not paid much, (Even less than the Irish.)but they were paid.
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post #103 of 720 Old 12-08-2011, 10:49 AM
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Wrong. They were paid employees. They were not paid much, (Even less than the Irish.)but they were paid.

Correct. The Chinese laborers were, indeed, paid employees. Here's what Leland Stanford, president of the Central Pacific Railroad, had to say in 1865 about Chinese laborers working for his railroad:

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CHINESE LABOR.

A large majority of the white laboring class on the Pacific Coast find more profitable and congenial employment in mining and agricultural pursuits, than in railroad work. The greater portion of the laborers employed by us are Chinese, who constitute a large element in the population of California. Without them it would be impossible to complete the western portion of this great national enterprrise, within the time required by the Acts of Congress.

As a class they are quiet, peaceable, patient, industrious and economicalready and apt to learn all the different kinds of work required in railroad building, they soon become as efficient as white laborers. More prudent and economical, they are contented with less wages. We find them organized into societies for mutual aid and assistance. These societies, that count their numbers by thousands, are conducted by shrewd, intelligent business men, who promptly advise their subordinates where employment can be found on the most favorable terms.

No system similar to slavery, serfdom or peonage prevails among these laborers. Their wages, which are always paid in coin, at the end of each month, are divided among them by their agents, who attend to their business, in proportion to the labor done by each person. These agents are generally American or Chinese merchants, who furnish them their supplies of food, the value of which they deduct from their monthly pay. We have assurances from leading Chinese merchants, that under the just and liberal policy pursued by the Company, it will be able to procure during the next year, not less than 15,000 laborers. With this large force, the Company will be able to push on the work so as not only to complete it far within the time required by the Acts of Congress, but so as to meet the public impatience.

LELAND STANFORD
Pres't C. P. R. R. Co.

Central Pacific Railroad Statement Made to the President of the United States, and Secretary of the Interior, on the Progress of the Work. October 10th, 1865. H.S. Crocker & Co., Printers, 92 J Street, Sacramento.

For a more comprehensive look at the contribution of Chinese labor to western railroad construction, see this link.
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post #104 of 720 Old 12-12-2011, 06:11 AM
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Another gripping episode.

This show pulls no punches as it tackles all the real issues (some of which are still relevant today).

Characters are coming into their own and showing different dimesions.

Looks like Bohannan isn't the only character with a shady past and a hidden agenda.
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post #105 of 720 Old 12-13-2011, 08:07 AM
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I had high hopes for the show, as I was a huge Deadwood fan. But I am getting bored with it now. It seems to drag a little slow for my tastes and the issues mentioned above are getting old as well. Now we are in the part about how the white man beat down the proud native American. I laughed when I saw the Plains Indians of the time speaking perfect English and riding shod horses with saddles. I don't think so. There is a fine line between historical accuracy and pandering to a cause. Yes, we beat them down and did everything we could to eliminate them. No they were not nearly as civilized as they are pictured here. I think the producers are playing fast and loose with the facts all in the name of entertainment, or at least what they deem entertainment.

No black man could have beaten a white man like that and gotten off without any repercussions. He would have probably been dragged from his tent and beaten or killed in the middle of the night or otherwise gone missing. It is simply unrealistic but in this show it reinforces the image they are trying to create for the black character.
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post #106 of 720 Old 12-13-2011, 09:50 AM
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I had high hopes for the show, as I was a huge Deadwood fan. But I am getting bored with it now. It seems to drag a little slow for my tastes and the issues mentioned above are getting old as well. Now we are in the part about how the white man beat down the proud native American. I laughed when I saw the Plains Indians of the time speaking perfect English and riding shod horses with saddles. I don't think so. There is a fine line between historical accuracy and pandering to a cause. Yes, we beat them down and did everything we could to eliminate them. No they were not nearly as civilized as they are pictured here. I think the producers are playing fast and loose with the facts all in the name of entertainment, or at least what they deem entertainment.

No black man could have beaten a white man like that and gotten off without any repercussions. He would have probably been dragged from his tent and beaten or killed in the middle of the night or otherwise gone missing. It is simply unrealistic but in this show it reinforces the image they are trying to create for the black character.

I am a Historian, Plains "Indians" Native Americans were well versed in English by default.

Many had been brought up in American cultural ways also. Native Americans had assimilated many European/American ways including the saddle.

Infact, the horse itself was a Spanish import.

During this period many Americans were uneducated, illiterate and immigrants with English as a second language.

The show is dealing with Elam Ferguson's behavor - notice the plan to lynch him?
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post #107 of 720 Old 12-18-2011, 09:19 PM
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Bravo, best episode yet.....this show "pulls-no-punches", again.

The character development now is superb and the excitement hits a fever-pitch.

Finally, an accurate protrayal of the many dynamic (and often unsettling) forces at play in post-Civil War America.
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post #108 of 720 Old 12-18-2011, 09:34 PM
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Bravo, best episode yet.....this show "pulls-no-punches", again.

The character development now is superb and the excitement hits a fever-pitch.

Finally, an accurate protrayal of the many dynamic (and often unsettling) forces at play in post-Civil War America.

Agreed! Tonight's episode was a true GEM...offering excellent character development and action.

The two standout scenes were: 1) the shootout in the field/forest, especially Elam's words to the Irishman, "Do you have any last words?" Talk about "poetic justice." And then 2) Lilly's confrontation with her husband's family and the fitting "slap in the face." She's quite the "fair-haired maiden of the West."

I also enjoyed the scene with Elam and Bohanin around the campfire...quite the revelation of what actually happened to Bohanin's wife, son, and the slave woman who raised him.

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post #109 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 12:23 PM
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Agreed! Tonight's episode was a true GEM...offering excellent character development and action.

The two standout scenes were: 1) the shootout in the field/forest, especially Elam's words to the Irishman, "Do you have any last words?" Talk about "poetic justice." And then 2) Lilly's confrontation with her husband's family and the fitting "slap in the face." She's quite the "fair-haired maiden of the West."

I also enjoyed the scene with Elam and Bohanin around the campfire...quite the revelation of what actually happened to Bohanin's wife, son, and the slave woman who raised him.

+1
Loving this show! I'm surprised this thread isn't more active. Last night was a fantastic episode. Loved the bytch slap followed by the verbal bytch slap! "Hold your tongue!" Lilly's sure does make for some nice visuals in the show to boot! Overall very impressed with the show and how the characters and story are developing, good stuff!

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post #110 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 02:14 PM
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^^^^

Yes, it's a mystery to me why more members aren't visiting this thread with their own impressions. It may have gotten off to a slow start, but it's picking up speed now and I'm loving the characters (and the action).

It was good to see a little action from The Swede. He's pretty good with a *fork*; I'm still wondering how well he does with a gun (or with some Scandinavian Martial Arts).

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post #111 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 04:53 PM
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I find almost nothing of interest in this show. If there's an actual story being told I fail to see it. Some interesting characters but that's about it. The Swede is great. It's just too bad they couldn't afford some decent writing and a cogent story.
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post #112 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I find almost nothing of interest in this show. If there's an actual story being told I fail to see it. Some interesting characters but that's about it. The Swede is great. It's just too bad they couldn't afford some decent writing and a cogent story.

Yeah, there wasn't much cogency going around in 1870...... There is actually quite a bit of story on in this program. Maybe you don't like the way it is going...

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post #113 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I find almost nothing of interest in this show. If there's an actual story being told I fail to see it. Some interesting characters but that's about it. The Swede is great. It's just too bad they couldn't afford some decent writing and a cogent story.

The sub plots seem to be the sum of the plot if that's possible but I really like it regardless.

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post #114 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I find almost nothing of interest in this show. If there's an actual story being told I fail to see it. Some interesting characters but that's about it. The Swede is great. It's just too bad they couldn't afford some decent writing and a cogent story.

There IS an actual story. If you recall it started out with a story of REVENGE (i. e., Bohanin seeking those who murdered his family). This story continues to unfold. There is also the story of SURVIVAL (i.e., Lily Bell trying to survive after the death of her husband). And then there's the story of RACISM (with Elam and his black peers), GREED (Cullen's determination to make money by building his railroad), and CORRUPTION (the Senator and his continual quest for power, using any means to achieve it). Need I say more?

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post #115 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 06:06 PM
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I too am enjoying it. I think the issue the previous poster has is there's not really an major plot device...it's more of a sum of its smaller ongoing plots. I can understand that line of thinking.

The last episode was great.
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post #116 of 720 Old 12-19-2011, 06:38 PM
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I too am enjoying it. I think the issue the previous poster has is there's not really an major plot device...it's more of a sum of its smaller ongoing plots. I can understand that line of thinking.

The last episode was great.

I agree with you that there are many "smaller ongoing plots." Perhaps the main "plot" revolves around the building of the railroad, hence the title "Hell on Wheels." This is the HUB of the wheel, so to speak, with all of the "smaller ongoing plots" serving as SPOKES of the wheel. What I'm implying is that the major plot is the historical account of the building of the railroad in post civil war times, and the lives of the various characters are all vitally connected to this, with their characters serving as the sub-plots.

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post #117 of 720 Old 12-20-2011, 08:31 AM
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Pretty good episode, just a few minor times they beat us over the head again that we treated slaves and black people poorly. Thanks for reminding me again, I forgot in the last 7 days since I watched this show last.

That final battle was really impressive, great shoot out. The main character looks soooooo cool.

Love how the Colm Meaney got back at the congressman, I knew it was coming a mile away but it was still great to see. Especially holds up with how much money the real character had in real life after the railrod build was over.

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post #118 of 720 Old 12-20-2011, 08:42 AM
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I saw this week's episode of Hell on Wheels last night and agree with those of you who thought it was the best show of the season. The hardbitten but tortured Bohannan is a fascinating character. I am also seeing more and more to like about the beautiful Lilly who, despite her delicate appearance, is a very tough lady. Nobody should confuse Hell on Wheels with Deadwood, though, because it's not in the same world. Still by the standards of modern TV dramas the show is quite good, I think.

I was particularly impressed by the writers' ability to tell the story of Lily and Durant's trip to Chicago and return, Bohannan's rescue of Elam from the lynch mob, and Bohannan and Elam's dispatching of those sent to kill them, all in 43 minutes. I thought it was both generous and well done.
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post #119 of 720 Old 12-21-2011, 04:55 PM
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Enjoying this show more and more. Not bothered at all by the racism references; they just give it that much more sense of realism. It's important to remember this series is set just after the Civil War, when racism was still very much alive and well, and those deep wounds had not even begun to heal. It's also about Bohannan's redemption and his growing friendship with Elam, a man he increasingly sees as an equal.

Wonder how the Swede will react to Bohannan's latest attempt to "upset the balance", as well as the loss of his top deputy? Also see a potential love triangle emerging with Lily, Bohannan, and Durant that should prove interesting.

Gwsat is right - this ain't 'Deadwood', but that's an awfully high bar to reach. Overall, I've been impressed with how much they do get right. I'm still smarting from the cancellation of 'Rubicon', and as a previous poster reminded us, the remake of 'The Prisoner' was a hot mess, but AMC continues to pump out some of the best stuff on TV. At least they're making the effort, which is more than I can say for just about everyone else.
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post #120 of 720 Old 12-21-2011, 07:20 PM
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Enjoying this show more and more. Not bothered at all by the racism references; they just give it that much more sense of realism. It's important to remember this series is set just after the Civil War, when racism was still very much alive and well, and those deep wounds had not even begun to heal. It's also about Bohannan's redemption and his growing friendship with Elam, a man he increasingly sees as an equal.

Wonder how the Swede will react to Bohannan's latest attempt to "upset the balance", as well as the loss of his top deputy? Also see a potential love triangle emerging with Lily, Bohannan, and Durant that should prove interesting.

Gwsat is right - this ain't 'Deadwood', but that's an awfully high bar to reach. Overall, I've been impressed with how much they do get right. I'm still smarting from the cancellation of 'Rubicon', and as a previous poster reminded us, the remake of 'The Prisoner' was a hot mess, but AMC continues to pump out some of the best stuff on TV. At least they're making the effort, which is more than I can say for just about everyone else.

+1, Thank you..anyone fixated with the racism has their own issue to sort out.

AMC has done the four best shows of the last four years.

1) Mad Men

2) Breaking Bad

3) The Walking Dead

4) Hell On Wheels

AMAZING
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