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post #1381 of 1404 Old 01-22-2015, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
True, but a better resurrection sequence played out over two episodes would have added to the mythology of the character.
Please don't give them any ideas. If this were Grimm, Oliver would stay dead for the next ten episodes, then finally return only to find Felicity pregnant and Laurel with amnesia and having no clue who he was. I'm all for speedy resolutions to non-cliffhangers. I'm more curious to know why Maseo's wife has the ability to bring people back to life. (Gee Maseo, since you're eternally in my debt, couldn't you have bothered to summon Tatsu to bring Sara back to life? Then we wouldn't have gotten into this whole mess in the first place. Thanks for nothing, pal. )
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post #1382 of 1404 Old 01-22-2015, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
(Gee Maseo, since you're eternally in my debt, couldn't you have bothered to summon Tatsu to bring Sara back to life? Then we wouldn't have gotten into this whole mess in the first place. Thanks for nothing, pal. )
In the show's defense Team Arrow buried Sara and never told anyone she was dead, so Magic Tatsu would have been working with a rotting corpse by the time they dragged the body there.

I expect next week or so we'll find out why Maseo was reluctant to go to Magic Tatsu with Ollie. I'm expecting a dead son in the mix.


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post #1383 of 1404 Old 01-22-2015, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Please don't give them any ideas. If this were Grimm, Oliver would stay dead for the next ten episodes, then finally return only to find Felicity pregnant and Laurel with amnesia and having no clue who he was. I'm all for speedy resolutions to non-cliffhangers. I'm more curious to know why Maseo's wife has the ability to bring people back to life. (Gee Maseo, since you're eternally in my debt, couldn't you have bothered to summon Tatsu to bring Sara back to life? Then we wouldn't have gotten into this whole mess in the first place. Thanks for nothing, pal. )
Ugh, Grimm writers' handling of long story arcs is still terrifying.
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post #1384 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 08:03 AM
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He's already drowning in angst and brooding, so there's not much you can do with that. As for his resurrection, I'm not sure how much more of a shake up there can be for his character.
Perhaps, after he is fully resurrected, he can only communicate by singing Mary Poppins tunes? The Singing Arrow . . . .
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post #1385 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post
Why would Merlin tell Thea that they were in danger and have to leave the city forever? Danger from what?
The League's leader wants Merlin dead.
Merlin programmed Thea to kill Sarah, so that the League will have to avenge her death. Merlin wanted Olivier to find out and to protect Sarah by challenging the League leader to a duel, killing him, and therefore freeing Merlin from his death warrant. But Olivier lost; the League leader is still alive. Therefore Merlin has to go back in hiding.

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post #1386 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 11:27 AM
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I was under the impression that the whole affair ends with the death of Sarah's killer. If Oliver was her "killer" and he is now dead, then why would the league go after Merlin?
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post #1387 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
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Perhaps, after he is fully resurrected, he can only communicate by singing Mary Poppins tunes? The Singing Arrow . . . .
Well if that's the case....
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post #1388 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 12:07 PM
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I was under the impression that the whole affair ends with the death of Sarah's killer. If Oliver was her "killer" and he is now dead, then why would the league go after Merlin?
That's what I thought as well.
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post #1389 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 12:22 PM
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I believe it was stated that Malcolm Merlyn's Undertaking broke some sort of Code of the League of Assassins, thus they are after him once they found out he survived.
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post #1390 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post
I believe it was stated that Malcolm Merlyn's Undertaking broke some sort of Code of the League of Assassins, thus they are after him once they found out he survived.
So it's all about him and has nothing to do with Thea, who is supposedly 'cleared' because Ollie took responsibility for Sarah's death, that makes sense.
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post #1391 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM
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Right. Merlin's plan was to get the League's leader killed to save himself.

Except I am unclear how that plan saves him unless all of the League are killed off. Even if Olivier had won, that would not have gotten Merlin off the hook with the rest of them, I'd bet.

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post #1392 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Please don't give them any ideas. If this were Grimm, Oliver would stay dead for the next ten episodes, then finally return only to find Felicity pregnant and Laurel with amnesia and having no clue who he was. I'm all for speedy resolutions to non-cliffhangers. I'm more curious to know why Maseo's wife has the ability to bring people back to life.
Show-wise, Fridays belong to CONSTANTINE, not GRIMM! (At least for the next few weeks)

Hopefully someone will clarify, but if memory serves, doesn't Katana (aka Tatsuo) carry some kind of Sword of Souls? And did it have any resurrection powers. (I last saw her on the BEWARE THE BATMAN series and I recall there was a whole storyline regarding it but the details have faded.)

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post #1393 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post
I was under the impression that the whole affair ends with the death of Sarah's killer. If Oliver was her "killer" and he is now dead, then why would the league go after Merlin?
Oliver told Malcolm that he was going to reveal that Malcolm was the one who was ultimately responsible for Sara's death, which Malcolm said wouldn't work, since the League would still kill Thea for having pulled the trigger bow. Oliver then stormed off to face the League, but since Malcolm wasn't there, he doesn't know what Oliver said before getting himself killed. For all Malcolm knows, Oliver spilled the beans before he died, so now not only does he have to go on the run again, but he has to drag Thea with him in case the League now knows of her involvement. Oliver didn't do either of those things, but Malcolm doesn't know that. For once he's not in control and is in the dark, which could prove interesting going forward.
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post #1394 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post
Why would Merlin tell Thea that they were in danger and have to leave the city forever? Danger from what?
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Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post
The League's leader wants Merlin dead.
Merlin programmed Thea to kill Sarah, so that the League will have to avenge her death. Merlin wanted Olivier to find out and to protect Sarah by challenging the League leader to a duel, killing him, and therefore freeing Merlin from his death warrant. But Olivier lost; the League leader is still alive. Therefore Merlin has to go back in hiding.
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I was under the impression that the whole affair ends with the death of Sarah's killer. If Oliver was her "killer" and he is now dead, then why would the league go after Merlin?
The gyst is...

The League wanted Merlyn dead. Merlyn didn't think he could take Al Ghul in a fair fight for some reason... so he wants Oliver to do it... to get Oliver sucked into things, he brainwashes Thea to kill Sara... so the League will be after Thea unless Oliver intervenes. Oliver challenges Ras to a duel, but Ras says he knows Oliver didn't really kill Sara because Oliver loved her... so Ras knows Oliver is covering for someone... but Ras is still willing to honor the duel so IF Oliver wins, the debt will be wiped clean... and thus Malcolm is off the hook as related to Thea when Oliver absolves Thea.

But, Oliver lost... so the debt remains since it wasn't Oliver that did the deed... and Malcolm has no other strings to pull... and he figures the League knows (as a result of Oliver's challenge) to come after him and Thea.

That's the way I figure it all is meant to work.

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post #1395 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Oliver told Malcolm that he was going to reveal that Malcolm was the one who was ultimately responsible for Sara's death, which Malcolm said wouldn't work, since the League would still kill Thea for having pulled the trigger bow. Oliver then stormed off to face the League, but since Malcolm wasn't there, he doesn't know what Oliver said before getting himself killed. For all Malcolm knows, Oliver spilled the beans before he died, so now not only does he have to go on the run again, but he has to drag Thea with him in case the League now knows of her involvement. Oliver didn't do either of those things, but Malcolm doesn't know that. For once he's not in control and is in the dark, which could prove interesting going forward.

While this is a good and valid point, the main reason that the League wants to kill Merlin, was preexisting. As mentioned below:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsambuca View Post
I believe it was stated that Malcolm Merlyn's Undertaking broke some sort of Code of the League of Assassins, thus they are after him once they found out he survived.


Important part in bold.

Conversation between Oliver and Malcolm:

[Oliver watches a recording of Thea killing Sara]
Malcolm Merlyn: I don't think you want the league to see that. And if you kill me, they will.
Oliver Queen: This isn't her.
Malcolm Merlyn: You ever heard of a plant called Votura? It grows in South America. In facts, it thrives in Corto Maltese, making the subject extremely susceptible to suggestion, or retaining no memory of their actions.
Oliver Queen: I will tell Ra's this was you, that Thea was under your control.
Malcolm Merlyn: And he will still kill her. She fired the arrows.
Oliver Queen: You have given her a death sentence.
Malcolm Merlyn: No. What I've done is given you incentive.
Oliver Queen: To do what?
Malcolm Merlyn: To tell Ra's that you killed Sara Lance. By right, you'll be given a trial by combat - with Ra's. His death will erase any blood debt from his reign, including Thea's.
Oliver Queen: And yours.

Malcolm Merlyn: I have to be honest - it was my concern that the whole killing thing would have been a deal breaker for you. But, uh, I'm gratified to see that Thea is still sufficient motivation. Don't take too long making up your mind. Ra's isn't known for his patience.
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post #1396 of 1404 Old Yesterday, 05:45 PM
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Where is this League of Assassins Lair? New Jersey? These guys just jet back and forth like it's a hop, skip and jump away. Nyssa gives Arrow the 48 hour deadline and then travels back to the lair to give a status update Arrow putz es around for a day or so and then goes to the lair to challenge big baddie. Then Merlin goes and finds the sword with Arrows blood on it and then travels back to give it to the Arrow gang like he took a trip to the grocery store.
They are flying in private jets not commerical so they can probaly get to anywhere in less than a day and a half
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post #1397 of 1404 Unread Today, 07:18 AM
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I miss Caity. I just can't see Cassidy pulling off the Black Canary. She can try, but she just isn't as charasmatic.
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post #1398 of 1404 Unread Today, 08:04 AM
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They are flying in private jets not commerical so they can probaly get to anywhere in less than a day and a half
Still, it was kind of silly the way they filmed & edited it. Heck, they made it seem like Merlin just jogged down to the Swords 'R Us at the outlet mall and picked up the weekly blood-stained special whilst Team Arrow was just chillin' in their lair.

Now here's a thought. Ra's is supposed to be the world's greatest warrior, and he easily defeated Green Arrow (that's what I'm calling him; so sue me) while somehow managing not to suffer hypothermia in his beachwear. If he had really wanted to kill Ollie, wouldn't he have directed his sword just a few inches higher and run right through the heart? That'll get the job done every time.

Instead, Ra's -- the world's greatest swordsman (George Clooney excepted) -- stabs Ollie in that particular side spot where heroes always seem to get shot and stabbed because it's possible to miss the major organs there (the shoulder area right under the collarbone being the other), and the hero can be back fighting crime in a day or two, seemingly no worse for the wear.

Surely Ra's knows where to stab a guy when a guy's gotta' be stabbed to death. My theory is he really wanted to miss because he just respects Ollie so darn much, and he's smart enough to know that Ollie was probably lying when he said he killed Sara. So he'll give Ollie the most outside chance imaginable of surviving. Which would really impress Ra's. But a veritably invincible warlord's gotta' do what he's gotta' do.
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post #1399 of 1404 Unread Today, 10:02 AM
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They are flying in private jets not commerical so they can probaly get to anywhere in less than a day and a half
They said the duel took place on one of the non-descript "sacred ground" locations, so it could have been a mountain in South America or Canada or even the USA. Not a big deal flying there in 8 hours or less.

I find it more of a massively useful coincidence that Tatsu chose to live in a hut nearby to the same place the duel happened to be.


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post #1400 of 1404 Unread Today, 10:11 AM
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My theory is he really wanted to miss because he just respects Ollie so darn much, and he's smart enough to know that Ollie was probably lying when he said he killed Sara. So he'll give Ollie the most outside chance imaginable of surviving. Which would really impress Ra's. But a veritably invincible warlord's gotta' do what he's gotta' do.
Didn't Ra's say he knew Ollie was just standing in for the real killer? Giving Ollie a survival chance also means Queen will inevitably lead him to the real culprit behind Sara's murder.

At this point I just want magic of some kind to be the reason Ollie survives. I have a feeling the show is going to pull some "low-body temperature" survival hokum as an excuse and I would find that more unrealistic and lame than if Tatsu used the magical essence of an Ancient Soul Reviver Plant.


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post #1401 of 1404 Unread Today, 12:37 PM
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Rescue of Oliver was as expected and super bland. In my imagination he drifted in the afterlife where he met up with Sarah and the island girl, made peace and had a threesome. He woke up one morning in a Shaolin temple surrounded by monks. They had rescued him. Later they taught him the five-monkey fighting techniques. He went back to the League to challenge the other guy again. So impressed with Oliver, the old guy relinquished his daughter and his kingdom to Oliver.
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post #1402 of 1404 Unread Today, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Now here's a thought. Ra's is supposed to be the world's greatest warrior, and he easily defeated Green Arrow (that's what I'm calling him; so sue me) while somehow managing not to suffer hypothermia in his beachwear. If he had really wanted to kill Ollie, wouldn't he have directed his sword just a few inches higher and run right through the heart? That'll get the job done every time.

Instead, Ra's -- the world's greatest swordsman (George Clooney excepted) -- stabs Ollie in that particular side spot where heroes always seem to get shot and stabbed because it's possible to miss the major organs there (the shoulder area right under the collarbone being the other), and the hero can be back fighting crime in a day or two, seemingly no worse for the wear.

Surely Ra's knows where to stab a guy when a guy's gotta' be stabbed to death. My theory is he really wanted to miss because he just respects Ollie so darn much, and he's smart enough to know that Ollie was probably lying when he said he killed Sara. So he'll give Ollie the most outside chance imaginable of surviving. Which would really impress Ra's. But a veritably invincible warlord's gotta' do what he's gotta' do.
I thought the exact same thing myself. It was also a bit too convenient that Ra's disposed of the "body" in a manner that it could seemingly never be recovered (and checked for life signs) while at the same time enabling Oliver to survive on the ledge until Ra's right hand guy could recover it, take it to his wife-healer a short distance away, and rehabilitate him. Ra's would've also known Oliver had survived much worse. All the while, Ra's saves face in front of the League.
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post #1403 of 1404 Unread Today, 04:31 PM
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I predict a rematch for the season finale in which both Oliver and Ra's will end up dead - finally resulting in the long wished for trip to the Lazarus Pits, after which Oliver and the League will come to some kind of an understanding. We will also get some oblique reference to Bruce Wayne in that episode so everyone can spend the summer salivating for a Batman guest appearance that will never happen.

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post #1404 of 1404 Unread Today, 04:37 PM
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Should put a green hooded suit on this guy,

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