Defiance--New Syfy series and MMO tie in - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:12 AM
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Because it would completely change the laws of physics that govern how things work in this universe. Again, changing the atmosphere or biosphere is one thing - that's doable. Changing geology and moving continental plates around (that's how mountains are created) on a lightning fast scale is entirely different. That's not doable.
Yeah, it kinda' does. I like a little "science" in my science fiction. I'm weird that way.
 

 

I guess you didn't like Farscape then with it's spaceship that was actually alive. Is that possible?  :)  It's scifi dude, the actual science of alien "terraforming" is about the bottom of my list of things to nit pick.  biggrin.gif


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Old 04-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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What if the aliens, with their highfalutin weaponry or terraforming gizmos, wrecked the geology of the planet?

Well, it's because geology is just different from other areas that might be subject to terraforming efforts. It's kind of set in stone, you know? wink.gif

If anything were to affect the planet's geology on that scale, like say a really big asteroid collision, it would be rendered uninhabitable for humans and aliens alike. Virtually nothing living would survive an event like that except possibly a few microbes here and there. Life would literally be starting over from scratch. And you'd be talking billions of years to get back to 'Jersey Shore' being telecast, not a few decades. Which might not be a bad thing, come to think about it.

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Oh, and did I mention Julie Benz?biggrin.gif

The only reason I'm still watching. tongue.gif Well... her, the sometimes naked Jaime Murray (Dexter), and "super-hot naked lesbian assassin Mandy" (aka Mia Kirshner - '24', The L Word). Those are 3 pretty decent reasons, but I suspect even they might not be enough to get me to stick around if the writing doesn't improve. Greatly.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:28 AM
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Really? I hadn't noticed the "fi" part of NOVA. Plenty of "sci", however. Been watching for years; thanks for the thought though.

The fiction comes in where NASA says we'll do it in 20 years. cool.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:37 AM
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The fiction comes in where NASA says we'll do it in 20 years. cool.gif

Do what?
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:41 AM
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The fiction comes in where NASA says we'll do it in 20 years. cool.gif

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Do what?



Life on Mars?

"If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space."
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:56 AM
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Do what?

Mars or whatever trip they keep pushing back. When I was a kid they said we'd be back on the moon by now.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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Do what?

Or all those "human" stories about us getting our shirt together and being cool with each other. smile.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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Mars or whatever trip they keep pushing back. When I was a kid they said we'd be back on the moon by now.

Oh I dunno. Give NASA the same kind of public committment as was done for the "First Fu****g Country On the Moon" mission, a real national effort, we could put people on Mars within the decade. Maybe even bring 'em back too.
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Or all those "human" stories about us getting our shirt together and being cool with each other. smile.gif

Ah, now you're back in Star Trek country. Talk about fantasy!
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:28 AM
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Oh I dunno. Give NASA the same kind of public committment as was done for the "First Fu****g Country On the Moon" mission, a real national effort, we could put people on Mars within the decade.
I can't think of a better waste of public money.
What do we do when we get there?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Terraform, my dear Watson
Oh, wait....

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:30 AM
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A science fiction show, if it wants to be taken seriously, has to have some basis in reality. While it's not inconceivable that 7 alien races visited earth and wrecked havoc (believable because we know very little about what's beyond our own solar system), it's completely contrary to the laws of physics as we know them for "terraforming" (which, I must point out again, refers to making other planets more earthlike, not the other way around) to literally move tectonic plates around that normally only move an inch or so per year.

Again I say, if they wanted this type of geography for story purposes, why not set the show in Denver? The only reason I can think of is Denver doesn't have a recognizable, iconic symbol like the S.L. arch. Frankly, it's ridiculous. I can more easily believe bi-pedal, prosthetic-foreheaded, english speaking aliens with all the exact same character flaws as humans. That was one of the defining characteristics of Star Trek, and I don't mean that as a compliment.

The whole enterprise is based on premises too shaky to be considered good science fiction. That means, by default, it's bad science fiction. The writing is terrible, the characters nothing more than two-dimensional cutouts of human villains we've seen a million times before. I appreciate all the money that's been spent, and maybe if I were a twenty-something gamer I might be more inclined to give 'Defiance' a break. But when a new sci-fi show is causing me to wax nostalgic about 'Terra Nova', that's not a good sign. Give me those dinos and flawed human antagonists any day.

I disagree with you on many points. Looking at this from our perspective is wrong. We have no idea what could be accomplished with technology from races that have already conquered interstellar space. Moving the continental plates is only not possible from our perspective. There is nothing in the laws of physics that says it cannot be done, period. It can't be done with what we know and what we understand We have no clue what technolgy will be able to accomplish for us. They did say what happened in St. Louis was unexplained and happened nowhere else they know of. They said they don't know why it happened. So they aren't saying they folded land everywhere, they were transforming it for them to live here and this was an unexplained event.

For someone that complains so much about a show, your reason for staying (because of hot women) seems pretty lame. Why would someone suffer through something they hate so much just to see some hot women? Isn't that what the Internet is for?

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Old 04-30-2013, 10:42 AM
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I can't think of a better waste of public money.
What do we do when we get there?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Terraform, my dear Watson
Oh, wait....

Mars is an awesome goal but we lack leadership. Any aliens out there will find us before we find them.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:50 AM
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Mars is an awesome goal but we lack leadership. Any aliens out there will find us before we find them.

I think Dennis Rodman proves that they already have.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:03 AM
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For someone that complains so much about a show, your reason for staying (because of hot women) seems pretty lame.

Well, I have to agree with you there. tongue.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:04 AM
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Why would someone suffer through something they hate so much just to see some hot women?
Earth to Bill: men have been doing it ever since there has been women. biggrin.gif

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Mars is an awesome goal but we lack leadership.
The most we can do is drop a couple of guys on it for a holiday....that's about it.
We can't terraform....we are far far away from developing tech to change the atmosphere of Mars, or even the moon.

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Old 04-30-2013, 11:08 AM
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Earth to Bill: men have been doing it ever since there has been women. biggrin.gif
The most we can do is drop a couple of guys on it for a holiday....that's about it.
We can't terraform....we are far far away from developing tech to change the atmosphere of Mars, or even the moon.

Have you read Red Mars? It's doable. You start by thickening the atmosphere, global warming on a massive scale. Just generate a bunch of atmospheric pollution, primarily CO2; we're good at that. Then you introduce plant life, genetically altered to be able to survive, to change the composition of the atmosphere and get more oxygen. The only difference from his books is it would take a whole lot longer than he postulates there.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:27 AM
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Ugh. Everything about it was dreadful. Absolutely dreadful.

I thought the same thing. Very boring. I had high hopes for this show, but I'm not going to stick around much longer if it doesn't improve dramatically. There is no depth to the characters, everything seems like a cliche, the CGI isn't very good, you can see what is coming next a mile away, and that entire ritual stuff last night was nothing more than a poorly written Native American type plot that you could see on just about any western from the 1960s.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:29 PM
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Earth to Bill: men have been doing it ever since there has been women. biggrin.gif
The most we can do is drop a couple of guys on it for a holiday....that's about it.
We can't terraform....we are far far away from developing tech to change the atmosphere of Mars, or even the moon.

Well duh. We are on top of Earth killing rocks though.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:33 PM
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Well duh. We are on top of Earth killing rocks though.

You'd better hope we are, before they're on top of us. OTOH, there's your geology-altering event. Problem is, if the geology is sufficiently altered in that manner, nobody will be around to notice.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:59 PM
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I thought the same thing. Very boring. I had high hopes for this show, but I'm not going to stick around much longer if it doesn't improve dramatically. There is no depth to the characters, everything seems like a cliche, the CGI isn't very good, you can see what is coming next a mile away, and that entire ritual stuff last night was nothing more than a poorly written Native American type plot that you could see on just about any western from the 1960s.

For what its worth, I generally liked the first two episodes, and I'm interested in the world they are building. Most SF shows have a few clangers in their first season, and this was certainly one of them smile.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:32 PM
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Have you read Red Mars? It's doable. You start by thickening the atmosphere, global warming on a massive scale. Just generate a bunch of atmospheric pollution, primarily CO2; we're good at that. Then you introduce plant life, genetically altered to be able to survive, to change the composition of the atmosphere and get more oxygen. The only difference from his books is it would take a whole lot longer than he postulates there.
From my basic understanding- Mars no longer has a molten iron rotating magnetic core like the earth has- therefore it has no magnetic field and magnetosphere that helps hold the atmosphere to the planet and protects us against solar radiation. Since there's no atmosphere- most of the water has evaporated off into space too. Since there's no way to make the core molten and rotating again- there's just no way to keep a dense atmosphere on mars, no way to keep liquid water on the surface, and no way to protect against lethal radiation. Best case scenario for human habitation of Mars would be living under the surface or on the surface in pressurized structures.
It doesn't seem likely that we'd ever be able to reverse the cause of Mars losing it's magnetic field, atmosphere, liquid water, etc... Mars is basically spent as a first class habitat for humans- but it's useful for natural resources.

"If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space."
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:40 PM
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From my basic understanding- Mars no longer has a molten iron rotating magnetic core like the earth has- therefore it has no magnetic field and magnetosphere that helps hold the atmosphere to the planet and protects us against solar radiation.

That's why the reptilians are here on Earth. Duh.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:41 PM
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For what its worth, I generally liked the first two episodes, and I'm interested in the world they are building. Most SF shows have a few clangers in their first season, and this was certainly one of them smile.gif

Hey guys how soon until one of the haters here destroys his hopefulness? smile.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:11 PM
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:17 PM
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From my basic understanding- Mars no longer has a molten iron rotating magnetic core like the earth has- therefore it has no magnetic field and magnetosphere that helps hold the atmosphere to the planet and protects us against solar radiation. Since there's no atmosphere- most of the water has evaporated off into space too. Since there's no way to make the core molten and rotating again- there's just no way to keep a dense atmosphere on mars, no way to keep liquid water on the surface, and no way to protect against lethal radiation. Best case scenario for human habitation of Mars would be living under the surface or on the surface in pressurized structures.
It doesn't seem likely that we'd ever be able to reverse the cause of Mars losing it's magnetic field, atmosphere, liquid water, etc... Mars is basically spent as a first class habitat for humans- but it's useful for natural resources.

It's true that without a protective magnetic field the solar wind would eventually blow the atmosphere out into space, as it's already done on Mars. But there's already an atmosphere - albeit not much of one. The density is about 1% of earth at sea level, or equal to what you'd find about 35 km up. It's just a matter of thickening it by releasing vast amounts of gases. There are lots of ways to do that. It's certainly possible with the technology we already have. You could thicken up the atmosphere many orders of magnitude faster than the solar wind could blow it away.

Then it becomes a matter of changing its composition. That would take much longer, but with the right mix of biology and botany - taking no more than several hundred years, probably - you could create a breathable atmosphere that could sustain animal life, including humans. And as the atmosphere thickens, the by-product is a rise in temperatures. By then we, meaning the new Martians and their technology, will have evolved to adapt to the stresses and conditions of living there.

As for water, the other mandatory ingredient for life as we know it, there's likely already plenty of it sealed away underground in vast frozen aquifers. As Mars gains more atmosphere and warms up, that water will be released and flow back onto the surface where it can be managed. Or you drill for it.

Voilà! Real, honest-to-goodness terraforming. All eminently doable; we but lack the will.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:38 PM
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All eminently doable; we but lack the will.
AND the $$$.wink.gif

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Old 04-30-2013, 02:39 PM
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http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7Z2A/axe-apollo-defiance

Anyone see this prior to the show? It's goofy fun.
Nice....biggrin.gif

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Old 04-30-2013, 02:48 PM
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AND the $$$.wink.gif

If it could be couched in terms of "national defense" we'd already have a colony up there. rolleyes.gif

Besides, think of all the high-tech, economy-boosting spin-offs of such a huge endeavor. We spend unfathomable gobs of money on lots worse things. And there would be no shortage of volunteers, even if it was clear it would have to be a one-way trip. Heck, I might sign-up myself. tongue.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:19 PM
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Heck, I might sign-up myself. tongue.gif
I ordered you one...



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Old 04-30-2013, 05:17 PM
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For what its worth, I generally liked the first two episodes, and I'm interested in the world they are building. Most SF shows have a few clangers in their first season, and this was certainly one of them smile.gif

I really do hope you are right. I want the show to succeed. Now that Eureka is gone there is a hole in my lineup the size of old St. Louis. wink.gif
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:29 PM
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I am having a hard time understanding the positive reviews of this cheesy show. And the subtitles is another annoyance. I am glad W/H 13 is still on and Revolution is awesome. Defiance is a 1 of 10 for me.
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