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post #391 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 08:59 AM
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I feel the same way about the Democrat Party. I grew up in the Democrat Party, but the Democrats of today are farther left than I am. I am not Libertarian, but these days, I am closer to that than I am the Democrat Party. I think that is the type of cord Sorkin is trying to hit without saying it. Many things that come out of Will's mouth is very left leaning, not Moderate.

That's funny - I see it differently. The Democratic (dropping the last two letters is considered disrespectful by most Democrats including the President, BTW) Party has moved considerably to the center in the last few decades as a result of the rightward push of the GOP. Everything has been re-calibrated.

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I wouldn't be surprised if this show runs its full course that Will doesn't completely change ideology. He is headed in that direction and moving quickly.

Don't see that either. He's just railing against blatent hypocrisy but he sees himself as a old-school conservative, a Defender of the Faith. I think it would be a cop-out of monumental proportions if Sorkin turns him into a Democrat.
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post #392 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:02 AM
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There is a very small number of people say they are "Occupy" people. The number who say they are Tea Party is equal to the number of people who identify with Democrats and Republicans ( approx 22%). To call that large of a group "Taliban" like IMHO is not smart. That group along with the Independents will decide this election, not the Democrats, not the Republicans. Sorkin completely ignores that reality.

Which crevice are you pulling your numbers from? Republicans = 33 percent. Dems = 39. Tea Party = 20. Last I checked, 33 and 39 were higher than 20.

I said approximately 22% for Tea Party. And you confirmed that. I think your Dem and Rep numbers are a little high from what I have seen. More in line with 28-32% depending on the source. But no matter. Both parties have seen a decline since 2008.

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post #393 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

I grew up in the Democrat Party, but the Democrats of today are farther left than I am. I am not Libertarian, but these days, I am closer to that than I am the Democrat Party. I think that is the type of cord Sorkin is trying to hit without saying it. Many things that come out of Will's mouth is very left leaning, not Moderate.
Like you, I grew up a Democrat, although I never voted the straight Democratic ticket in my life. Later in life I changed my registration to Republican but still feel like an orphan. The extreme social views of far right wing Republicans are anathema to me but so are the ever bigger government, one size fits all, policies of today's Democratic party.

Some of the lines Sorkin writes for Will reflect my opinions perfectly but some sound more like a reflection of Sorkin's views than those of any Republican I have ever known. No matter, The Newsroom is brilliantly written and performed and has become one of my favorite shows. With people like Aaron Sorkin and David E. Kelley (Boston Legal) I celebrate their genius, which allows me to easily overlook their often blatant leftist political biases.
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post #394 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

The other question is whether the Republican and Tea Party identifiers are mutually exclusive or overlap.

If you ask Mitt Romney, a resounding OVERLAP!!! biggrin.gif Romney's problem is the Tea Party people don't trust him. Romney's people are trying to cut out the Tea Party at the RNC Convention.

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post #395 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by raaj View Post

For all political purposes, the Tea Party is the extreme-right, no-compromise, biblically-obsessed wing of the Republican party. It's funders, candidates and benefactors are Republicans. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ...

If you ask a Tea Party person about either John Bohner or Mitch McConnell, you don't hear much love about either one. So Will's feelings toward the Tea Party is what the Tea Party people feel about the mainstream Republicans. Don't know if Sorkin knows that or just channels it that way. It is interesting though.

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post #396 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Like you, I grew up a Democrat, although I never voted the straight Democratic ticket in my life. Later in life I changed my registration to Republican but still feel like an orphan. The extreme social views of far right wing Republicans are anathema to me but so are the ever bigger government, one size fits all, policies of today's Democratic party.
Some of the lines Sorkin writes for Will reflect my opinions perfectly but some sound more like a reflection of Sorkin's views than those of any Republican I have ever known. No matter, The Newsroom is brilliantly written and performed and has become one of my favorite shows. With people like Aaron Sorkin and David E. Kelley (Boston Legal) I celebrate their genius, which allows me to easily overlook their often blatant leftist political biases.

To me, the biggest surprise I had on this show is how well Jeff Daniels plays his character. He just nails it and I can even forgive some of the slapstick they have him doing. He does the newscast great and the scenes with the therapist are priceless. I'm not crazy about Sorkin's world where everyone is so articulate and eloquent.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #397 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:26 AM
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For all political purposes, the Tea Party is the extreme-right, no-compromise, biblically-obsessed wing of the Republican party. It's funders, candidates and benefactors are Republicans. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ...

That's true - all Tea Partiers are registered Republicans, nearly 100% overlap from every survey or poll I've seen. There is really no equivalent to the Tea Party on the political left. The Occupy movement has a legitimate cause (IMO), but it also has no central direction, no clear focus, adopted the wrong tactics, and has statistically negligible membership. There were no Koch brothers funding it. They can't be compared to the Tea Party in any meaningful way.

That said, I would be surprised if the Occupiers won't occupy at least one episode of 'Newsroom' next season.

I think the Democrats who have spoken at Tea Party functions might disagree with you. While it is true, the Tea Party is mostly conservatives and Republicans, there are registered Democrats who identify as Tea Party. I know several of them.

As far as Occupy goes, they are NOW mostly anarchists funded by radical organizations. Occupy was to have been the Left's answer to the Tea Party, but at this point, Occupy is falling apart as the good people involved have been pushed out. And that is a shame. Even the more moderate Democrats have pulled away from Occupy.

The real difference between the Tea Party and Occupy is the Tea Party quietly got elected to Congress and Occupy defecated on Police cars. That is how the two are seen by the general public.

And yes, I agree, I suspect to see an Occupy episode next season. I would be disappointed if we didn't.

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post #398 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

I think the Democrats who have spoken at Tea Party functions might disagree with you. While it is true, the Tea Party is mostly conservatives and Republicans, there are registered Democrats who identify as Tea Party. I know several of them.

I said "mostly", but finding a Democrat who actually votes Democratic at a Tea Party rally would be a real coup. wink.gif

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Originally Posted by foxeng 
As far as Occupy goes, they are NOW mostly anarchists funded by radical organizations.

I don't think anybody is funding them. Ever see one of their campsites?

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The real difference between the Tea Party and Occupy is the Tea Party quietly got elected to Congress.....

Quietly? I dunno about that. BTW, the 52 rabidly anti-spending members of the Tea Party caucus requested hundreds of earmarks from the 111th Congress that added over a billion dollars to the federal deficit. So much for ideological purity, eh? I kept waiting for McAvoy to mention that one. Cut for time, I suppose. tongue.gif
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post #399 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:42 AM
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That's funny - I see it differently. ... Party has moved considerably to the center in the last few decades as a result of the rightward push of the GOP. Everything has been re-calibrated.

And yes, it had moved to the center from the right of the 1800's through the first part of the 20th Century, but with Bill Clinton and the "New Democrats" of the 90's it has slowly moved passed center to the left but since 2008, it has rapidly lurched to the left It isn't center any more and that according to people such as Nancy Pelosi and Moveon.org.
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Originally Posted by foxeng 
I wouldn't be surprised if this show runs its full course that Will doesn't completely change ideology. He is headed in that direction and moving quickly.
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Don't see that either. He's just railing against blatent hypocrisy but he sees himself as a old-school conservative, a Defender of the Faith. I think it would be a cop-out of monumental proportions if Sorkin turns him into a Democrat.

YES!! I AGREE COMPLETELY! But this is Sorkin. Anything is possible.

The one thing about Sorkin to understand him, you have to know history. He certainly does his research on history. Once you understand that, you can follow Sorkin and his writing makes more sense.

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post #400 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

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I said "mostly", but finding a Democrat who actually votes Democratic at a Tea Party rally would be a real coup. wink.gif

Like I said, I personally know several who do not plan on voting Democrat this election cycle.
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As far as Occupy goes, they are NOW mostly anarchists funded by radical organizations.
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I don't think anybody is funding them. Ever see one of their campsites?

You need to look harder. We have pushed the limit on this so I hate to go further on that.
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The real difference between the Tea Party and Occupy is the Tea Party quietly got elected to Congress.....

Quietly? I dunno about that. BTW, the 52 rabidly anti-spending members of the Tea Party caucus requested hundreds of earmarks from the 111th Congress that added over a billion dollars to the federal deficit. So much for ideological purity, eh? I kept waiting for McAvoy to mention that one. Cut for time, I suppose. tongue.gif

If you listened to their opponents during their races, they were bigots, racists and homophobs. And that from both sides but they still got elected. Actually I suspect the reason Sorkin didn't have WIll rail against Tea Party earmarks was that it wasn't as widespread as the press tried to make it out to be. And I suspect those few will not win re-election. The press was up in arms in how the "Tea Party" was holding the House hostage on spending and Sorkin had Will rail about that several times.

I must admit, I am already having "Newsroom" withdrawal. frown.gif

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post #401 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:52 AM
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I think the Democrats who have spoken at Tea Party functions might disagree with you. While it is true, the Tea Party is mostly conservatives and Republicans, there are registered Democrats who identify as Tea Party. I know several of them.
As far as Occupy goes, they are NOW mostly anarchists funded by radical organizations. Occupy was to have been the Left's answer to the Tea Party, but at this point, Occupy is falling apart as the good people involved have been pushed out. And that is a shame. Even the more moderate Democrats have pulled away from Occupy.
The real difference between the Tea Party and Occupy is the Tea Party quietly got elected to Congress and Occupy defecated on Police cars. That is how the two are seen by the general public.
And yes, I agree, I suspect to see an Occupy episode next season. I would be disappointed if we didn't.

Occupy was in no way a response to Tea Party, nor are they funded by billionaires. Where are you getting this garbage from?
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post #402 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:54 AM
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And yes, it had moved to the center from the right of the 1800's through the first part of the 20th Century, but with Bill Clinton and the "New Democrats" of the 90's it has slowly moved passed center to the left but since 2008, it has rapidly lurched to the left It isn't center any more and that according to people such as Nancy Pelosi and Moveon.org.

The guy who agreed to welfare reform, pushed NAFTA and signed the repeal of Glass-Stegall can't really be termed a "lefty". Clinton was firmly pro-business. That's why the GOP loves his wife so much (relatively speaking). As to the general direction of the Democratic Party (I think that was the word you were looking for), it's safe to say there's room for disagreement on that, but this really isn't the place for that discussion.
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post #403 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 10:59 AM
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And yes, it had moved to the center from the right of the 1800's through the first part of the 20th Century, but with Bill Clinton and the "New Democrats" of the 90's it has slowly moved passed center to the left but since 2008, it has rapidly lurched to the left It isn't center any more and that according to people such as Nancy Pelosi and Moveon.org.

The guy who agreed to welfare reform and signed the repeal of Glass-Stegall can't really be termed a "lefty".

After the Republican led Congress forced him too. Recheck your history. And Clinton wanted to do nationalized healthcare his first term.
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As to the general direction of the Democratic Party (I think that was the word you were looking for), it's safe to say there's room for disagreement on that, but this really isn't the place for that discussion.

Agreed.

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post #404 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 11:05 AM
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If you listened to their opponents during their races, they were bigots, racists and homophobs. And that from both sides but they still got elected. Actually I suspect the reason Sorkin didn't have WIll rail against Tea Party earmarks was that it wasn't as widespread as the press tried to make it out to be. And I suspect those few will not win re-election.(

Actually, I never saw much about the Tea Party caucus' earmarks in the mainstream press - the media certainly didn't make a big issue out of it that I could tell. Which is why I was surprised not to hear McAvoy mention it (again, maybe time constraints - they're a target rich environment). Goes straight to the show's premise in a couple different ways, not just to TP hypocrisy but also to the failure of the press to cover them adequately.
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post #405 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 04:29 PM
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Political posts unrelated to the show removed.
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post #406 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 05:50 PM
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Enjoyed the show in spite of the overboard Sorkin ego monolog fest each week.
Really glad I have no experience with his other TV writing. That was quite enough.
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post #407 of 409 Old 08-28-2012, 05:57 PM
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Occupy was in no way a response to Tea Party, nor are they funded by billionaires. Where are you getting this garbage from?
You stole the very words right from my fingers. OWS has absolutely nothing to do at all with any Tea Party response by the left, the two are so far disconnected as to be on different planets.
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post #408 of 409 Old 08-29-2012, 05:59 AM
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Occupy was in no way a response to Tea Party, nor are they funded by billionaires. Where are you getting this garbage from?
You stole the very words right from my fingers. OWS has absolutely nothing to do at all with any Tea Party response by the left, the two are so far disconnected as to be on different planets.

OWS came out of people associated with Moveon and they specifically stated it WAS a response to the Tea Party. You may want to recheck your history.

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post #409 of 409 Old 08-29-2012, 07:01 AM
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Thread closed.

Here is a link to a more appropriate forum for discussing this show:

The Newsroom discussion at HBO.com
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