2012 Tour de France - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 82 Old 07-24-2012, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RemyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Great race for Wiggins, he blew them away Saturday in the TT and was clearly the best rider this year. Overall though it was a pretty dull TDF.
RemyM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 82 Old 07-24-2012, 09:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,138
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemyM View Post

Great race for Wiggins, he blew them away Saturday in the TT and was clearly the best rider this year.

 

After watching some of NBC's recap of the tour I'm not sure Christopher Froome wasn't the best (overall) rider. On two or three mountain top stages/finishes he basically stopped peddling to allow Wiggo to keep up. I'm not talking about the sprint at the end where he'd only gain a few seconds rather much early on when it appeared he could have left him behind and finished with sizable time gaps. I would loved to have seen him pull an Alberto and gone for it. I can't imagine time trials will be as emphasized next year and if they are still on the same team will he still be a domestique.

Charles R is offline  
post #63 of 82 Old 07-24-2012, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ti-triodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Damfino
Posts: 2,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

After watching some of NBC's recap of the tour I'm not sure Christopher Froome wasn't the best (overall) rider. On two or three mountain top stages/finishes he basically stopped peddling to allow Wiggo to keep up. I'm not talking about the sprint at the end where he'd only gain a few seconds rather much early on when it appeared he could have left him behind and finished with sizable time gaps. I would loved to have seen him pull an Alberto and gone for it. I can't imagine time trials will be as emphasized next year and if they are still on the same team will he still be a domestique.



Best thing for him is to find a new team for next year. If he stays with Sky he'll have to defer to Wiggo and next years Tour is supposed to have a lot more climbing. This years Tour was tailor made for Wiggo with lots of time trials and easier mountain stages. Don't forget the creep Contador will probably be back next year and he'll eat Wiggo alive on next years course. It would be great to see a Froome vs. creepo battle next year.
ti-triodes is offline  
post #64 of 82 Old 07-25-2012, 03:59 AM
Senior Member
 
Chris3mes1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mamaroneck, NY
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I missed most of the ending of stage 20, NBC sports did not replay much on primetime on Sunday night

I wonder why? I missed the awards except for the shortened primetime version, plus I wanted to see Hincapie lead the peloton into Paris. Still figuring out why Horner followed him?

Olympic road race is live this Saturday at 5am eastern & runs until 11am est

Xbox name- D0NGINAT0R (those are zero's in my name)
Chris3mes1 is offline  
post #65 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 06:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RemyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 34
If the UCI goes along with this "Witch Hunt" against Armstrong I will never watch another cycling event again.
RemyM is offline  
post #66 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 06:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,138
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 211

I don't even care if he is guilty... the means used to catch him is beyond fair. To the extent the process is worse than the crime.

Charles R is offline  
post #67 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DNINE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: N.Y.C
Posts: 1,284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The guy beat Cancer. Lost a nut had brain surgery and chose a course of treatment that saved his Lungs so he could compete if he lived. The Sport is full of doping. If he was doing it so was the guys he beat.

I am sure a few World Series and Super Bowl Teams from the past could loose their Tittles.

When they give the Second place finisher the Yellow from 1999, 2000 etc.

What test are going to be done to prove he was clean.

Does Sports need to be clean? sure, But when you go this far in a Sport that is still dirty it's a joke.
DNINE is offline  
post #68 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemyM View Post

If the UCI goes along with this "Witch Hunt" against Armstrong I will never watch another cycling event again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I don't even care if he is guilty... the means used to catch him is beyond fair. To the extent the process is worse than the crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNINE View Post

The guy beat Cancer. Lost a nut had brain surgery and chose a course of treatment that saved his Lungs so he could compete if he lived. The Sport is full of doping. If he was doing it so was the guys he beat.

I am sure a few World Series and Super Bowl Teams from the past could loose their Tittles.

When they give the Second place finisher the Yellow from 1999, 2000 etc.

What test are going to be done to prove he was clean.

Does Sports need to be clean? sure, But when you go this far in a Sport that is still dirty it's a joke.

Let's ban USADA...bunch of arseholes. But what do you expect from a country that has created blackmarkets and government bureaucracies based on "fighting" drugs?

lovinthehd is online now  
post #69 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 11:01 AM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
If eh had really cheated it wouldn't take 13 years to find out. But let's say he did. If a doper beats 50 other dopers is he really even cheating? Are they going check to make sure that the "new" winners that replace Armstrong didn't cheat either? How about 3rd place and 4th place? We may have to find the 8th place guy before you get to one that hasn't cheated.
BCF68 is offline  
post #70 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 12:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RemyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 4,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Are they going check to make sure that the "new" winners that replace Armstrong didn't cheat either?

That's the thing. Jan Ullrich finished second to Armstrong 3 of those 7 years and he was stripped of a 3rd place finish behind Lance in 2005 for doping. So are they going to strip the title from someone who they want to believe doped, but have no positive test, and give to a confirmed doper?
RemyM is offline  
post #71 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 12:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
rustycruiser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 18
It is a very tangled web when you look at all the other riders who finished behind Armstrong and their drug history.

rustycruiser is offline  
post #72 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 01:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 837
I think I just heard a formula 1 racer say, or agreed with, during an interview "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying hard enough"....it's professional sports. It's about money. Like asking a lawyer to always do the right thing...

lovinthehd is online now  
post #73 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 02:00 PM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycruiser View Post

It is a very tangled web when you look at all the other riders who finished behind Armstrong and their drug history.

In 2 of those years the highest finisher not found to be doping was the 8th place guy. Ok so you were 8th and now you're the "champ"? As I said even if Armstrong was cheating he beat other cheaters. Seems like an even playing field to me.
BCF68 is offline  
post #74 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 03:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ti-triodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Damfino
Posts: 2,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by RemyM View Post

If the UCI goes along with this "Witch Hunt" against Armstrong I will never watch another cycling event again.



+1


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is an absolute disgrace.
ti-triodes is offline  
post #75 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 03:52 PM
RJO
Member
 
RJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Colorado Springs (Gleneagle)
Posts: 172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 13
It is sad and scary day when you have to prove your innocence. This country operates under the laws of having to prove ones guilt. All I have heard about from the USADA are accusations from others. No proof despite hundreds of tests. Everyone should be concerned when one govt agency can wield so much power with no oversight or fair process to defend oneself.
RJO is online now  
post #76 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 04:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ti-triodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Damfino
Posts: 2,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJO View Post

It is sad and scary day when you have to prove your innocence. This country operates under the laws of having to prove ones guilt. All I have heard about from the USADA are accusations from others. No proof despite hundreds of tests. Everyone should be concerned when one govt agency can wield so much power with no oversight or fair process to defend oneself.



I've been dreading this day for months. Most people don't realize he had been found "guilty" when USADA began their proceedings. There was no day in court, he was automatically "guilty". It's great that the testimony of asswipes like Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis get more weight than the man who never failed over 500 tests. Even the judge who ruled on the court case this week- which was just a matter of who had control over the case- thought USADA had a political agenda.

Of course, Lance could have appealed. But look who he had to file his appeal with. The same people who are out to get him. It was a witch hunt, pure and simple.mad.gif
ti-triodes is offline  
post #77 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 09:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,138
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 211

My take is not so much the process rather the selectiveness in deciding to bring him down. Which is one of the points the judge made this week. My guess is Lance simply decided his case (public perception) is stronger by not letting all of the evidence out of the bag. I don't think for a moment he wouldn't appeal if he thought there was a chance his case would look better afterwards. I believe he is already threatening to sue them if they try to take his titles away claiming they don't have the authority. So it's not that he is giving up or beaten down by the process. Rather, it's in his best interest not to bring the evidence to light.

 

If he is in fact guilty (of which I tend to believe he is) his crime doesn't justify the singleness of bringing him down. Virtually giving everyone who can help a free pass so he can land the big fish. If your goal is to clean up the sport you don't have admitted users still riding this year. You just banned Armstrong for life and if your goal is to clean up the sport you don't make deals. You go after all of them with the same zeal.

 

By the way anyone want to buy my Armstrong (2005) and Landis (2006) yellow jerseys? :)

Charles R is offline  
post #78 of 82 Old 08-24-2012, 09:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovinthehd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: OROR
Posts: 6,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 290 Post(s)
Liked: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

My take is not so much the process rather the selectiveness in deciding to bring him down. Which is one of the points the judge made this week. My guess is Lance simply decided his case (public perception) is stronger by not letting all of the evidence out of the bag. I don't think for a moment he wouldn't appeal if he thought there was a chance his case would look better afterwards. I believe he is already threatening to sue them if they try to take his titles away claiming they don't have the authority. So it's not that he is giving up or beaten down by the process. Rather, it's in his best interest not to bring the evidence to light.

If he is in fact guilty (of which I tend to believe he is) his crime doesn't justify the singleness of bringing him down. Virtually giving everyone who can help a free pass so he can land the big fish. If your goal is to clean up the sport you don't have admitted users still riding this year. You just banned Armstrong for life and if your goal is to clean up the sport you don't make deals. You go after all of them with the same zeal.

By the way anyone want to buy my Armstrong (2005) and Landis (2006) yellow jerseys? smile.gif

Nicely said. Like I said it's USADA and the politics involved that are bigger travesty here...

lovinthehd is online now  
post #79 of 82 Old 08-25-2012, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 150
All the elite riders of that time ( and probably prior) "cheated" at one time or another. Some still do. When there's millions of dollars at stake, some people want to tilt the playing field to their advantage if they can somehow make it happen. Some goes for any other professional sport. To think Armstrong never cheated is pretty naive. He is genetically gifted, but you'd have to be genetically engineered to pull off what he did all those years and never "cheat". Doing this so much after the fact is BS. If he doesn't test positive within a reasonable amount of time to get the samples tested, then it never should be a 'positive' later. It's like going over football clips of years ago, finding a missed call and changing the score of a game.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
post #80 of 82 Old 08-27-2012, 04:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
fhall1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Central NY
Posts: 767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

In 2 of those years the highest finisher not found to be doping was the 8th place guy. Ok so you were 8th and now you're the "champ"? As I said even if Armstrong was cheating he beat other cheaters. Seems like an even playing field to me.

If the titles are stripped from him, my guess is there will be no "winners" awarded for those years because of the difficulty of sorting out who did/didn't dope in those races.
fhall1 is offline  
post #81 of 82 Old 08-27-2012, 06:00 AM
 
BCF68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhall1 View Post

If the titles are stripped from him, my guess is there will be no "winners" awarded for those years because of the difficulty of sorting out who did/didn't dope in those races.

Which gives me little incentive to keep up with this race and this sport. Why get excited about next year's winner when 15 years from now they can come back and take the tile away from him? You don't see MLB taking wins away from pitchers who got caught taking PEDs or HRs and RBIs away from hitters who took them.
BCF68 is offline  
post #82 of 82 Old 05-15-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Moderator
 
PooperScooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Leominster MA
Posts: 19,879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 150
beIN Sports is carrying The Giro on their HD channel in case you haven't noticed. I get beIN HD on FIOS.

larry

Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. -- Thomas Alva Edison
PooperScooper is offline  
Reply HDTV Programming

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off