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post #331 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Really Cox has several Gigabits of bandwidth? That is pretty small. You like YBSane, need to first get your terms correct, then you like them need to get your info correct. I am not going to argue with you anymore, because it is pointless, due to you have been caught like YBSane in a number of lies from the beginning, that you both show that you do not know what you are talking about.

BiggAW, give it up, you are going to keep on losing on this argument.

Cox has 85 QAM channels in it's 1-Ghz systems and if you do the math that comes out to over 3.2 Gigs of bandwidth, not very hard to understand. Are you still puzzled with the Multicast video over Docsis IP and how QAM tuners are extracting MPEG-2/4 containers in the stream.? I realize there was no retort for that one.

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post #332 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 01:05 PM
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Here is question 2 for your Gregzoll: How many TV sets have Docsis tuners in them.? none they will have however have QAM tuners to pick up un-encrypted content that did not go thru encryption. Bad thing about stepping in dog sh*t is you get it off your foot fast enough. I still waiting for information on the older (more than 2-years old) set tops that have Docsis tuners and receive Multicast video.

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post #333 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 03:54 PM
 
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Here is question 2 for your Gregzoll: How many TV sets have Docsis tuners in them.? none they will have however have QAM tuners to pick up un-encrypted content that did not go thru encryption. Bad thing about stepping in dog sh*t is you get it off your foot fast enough. I still waiting for information on the older (more than 2-years old) set tops that have Docsis tuners and receive Multicast video.
They would not have a Docsis tuner, due to the Docsis tuner is in the Head End. A TV has a ATSC, QAM tuner, some may still have NTSC tuners also if they are older.

This is what a docsis tuner does:

"DOCSIS 3.0 Tuner
Product name: MicroTuner MT2170
Company: Microtune
Features/what it does: 1 GHz input tuner based on DOCSIS 3.0; engineered to deliver data speeds greater than 160 Mbps 100 MHz bandwidth; offers equivalent functionality of four DOCSIS 2.0 digital tuners in a miniature package; when integrated into cable modems or VoIP set-tops, delivers speeds greater than 160 Mbps; single-chip tuner optimized to receive and tune RF from 50 MHz to 1 GHz; supports the DOCSIS 3.0 channel bonding technology; can accept bonded channels within bandwidths up to 100 MHz when paired with a DOCSIS 3.0-capable demodulator."
http://www.cable360.net/technology/news/22631.html

A little bit more about what the Docsis Tuner does for the Cable modems, which also includes Digtal Subscriber Set Top Boxes:

"Tuners for DOCSIS 3.0 cable modems
Cliff Anderson, Microtune, Inc.

8/22/2007 3:00 PM EDT

The DOCSIS 3.0 specifications enable cable modems to achieve unprecedented uplink and downlink data rates, and it comes not a moment too soon. The growing market strength of telecommunications service providers' fiber-to-the-home (FTTH) services is mounting a significant threat to cable operators, and the race is on to achieve DOCSIS 3.0-network class speeds to stay in the competitive game and win the consumer.
The new DOCSIS 3.0 specification enables cable modems to provide data rates approaching 160 Mb/s downstream and 120 Mb/s upstream to compete with fiber's 100 Mb/s downstream and 100 Mb/s upstream. DOCSIS 2.0 data rates are limited to nominally 40 Mb/s downstream and 30 Mb/s upstream. Never before has time to market been so important to cable modem manufacturers and cable service providers.
One of the top priorities in this race has been the need for a wideband tuner, one that handles the wide IF bandwidth employed in DOCSIS 3.0 and that delivers the performance necessary to achieve reliable data rates.
Fortunately, there is now a single-chip silicon tuner available today with the impressive performance and necessary IF bandwidth required to support DOCSIS 3.0 modems. This drop-in device comes from Microtune, a dominant silicon tuner supplier to the cable market, and its new MicroTuner MT2170 wideband tuner is poised to revolutionize the cable modem industry."

http://www.eetimes.com/design/microwave-rf-design/4013405/Tuners-for-DOCSIS-3-0-cable-modems

Cisco's Docsis 3.0 downstream Solution Architecture info http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/cable/cmts/wideband/solution/guide/release_2.0/ds_solu.html

Arris Article, regarding them picking the MaxLinear QAM Tuner chip for Docsis 3.0, for their equipment http://www.multichannel.com/technology/arris-picks-maxlinear-qam-tuner-chip-docsis-30-gear/125389

Only way that there would be a way of interpreting Docsis, is if they had a Cable Card in the set. You like BiggAW as I have already stated, both of you do not get it, what the technology is, or have even gone out and looked at the info, which I have, and also have known about this stuff for over 20 years, how it works.

So just like I told BiggAW, I am done arguing with you also, because it is pointless beating my head against the wall trying to get both of you to understand how this stuff works, even though the information was placed right in front of both of you, directly from the equipment manufacturers, and other citations.

Just face it, both of you really need to grow up and listen to the adults, when they try to explain stuff to both of you, instead of acting like a couple of children. I really cannot wait to see what you come back, that you just pull out of your seat. Just really face the facts YBSane, you really are going to continue losing this fight, because you have already shown that you do not have a clue what you are talking about.
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post #334 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
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ybsane, Docsis has always been used as the delivery method of Video to Set top boxes, regardless if it was a analog broadcast, or digital, since 2001, when digital Set Top Boxes really became mainstream. Keep on digging that hole deeper buddy

Do you want to retract what you said here than..? And how is Docsis and AM-VSB analog related and yes I am throwing big words at you now, because you have no idea of what you have posted prior now do you..? And would do a FCC proof of performance test on analog for Audio-Video delta, C/N, CTB, and in band flatness if it is Docsis video...?

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post #335 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 04:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Really Cox has several Gigabits of bandwidth? That is pretty small. You like YBSane, need to first get your terms correct, then you like them need to get your info correct. I am not going to argue with you anymore, because it is pointless, due to you have been caught like YBSane in a number of lies from the beginning, that you both show that you do not know what you are talking about.

BiggAW, give it up, you are going to keep on losing on this argument.

Cox has 85 QAM channels in it's 1-Ghz systems and if you do the math that comes out to over 3.2 Gigs of bandwidth, not very hard to understand. Are you still puzzled with the Multicast video over Docsis IP and how QAM tuners are extracting MPEG-2/4 containers in the stream.? I realize there was no retort for that one.
Not all of Cox's plants are 1ghz systems. There are a lot that are still 850mhz and lower.

The 85 QAM channels that Cox uses, means that they have anywhere from 8-12 SD, and 2-4 HD, along with they are also using some of the QAM channels for Digital phone, Internet. Just because they have 85 QAM modulators on the system, does not mean that they have 3.2gigs of bandwidth.

Again you like BiggAW, I am done with, because it really shows that both of you cannot get it, and will keep fighting this, until basically it hits both of you like a Mack Truck, if you both really read the citations posted.
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post #336 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 04:15 PM
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Not all of Cox's plants are 1ghz systems. There are a lot that are still 850mhz and lower.

It's 862mhz and lower not 850mhz You need to keep up with amp specs. Still can't figure out video content delivery yet.?

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post #337 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 04:57 PM
 
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YBSane, did you not read what I posted twice? I have stated, and will state it again, that I am done messing with you, due to from the start you have just not gotten it. As for the Delivery system, how many more links do I have to post, to show that you do not have a clue, nor do you even know what you are talking about. To let you know, the plants can vary system to system. Not all are 862mhz, nor are all 1000mhz. But it really does not matter, because you still will not know wth you are talking about, regardless how much I keep pulling citations to prove you wrong.

I can read what I cited, and I know exactly what it is stating The funny thing is, I even posted a picture of the delivery setup, how much more do you need to show that you have not got a clue? Also how much more do I have to keep beating it into your head, that you do not have a clue YBSane. But hey, keep on believing what you want, while you push that broom through the warehouse.

Here, I will through another Citation out to you, but I know that 1) You will not read it, 2) You will state that it is incorrect, or that I just pulled it out of my seat and made everything up, even though it is from Cisco. http://users.freenet.am/~file/DownDB/CISCO_PDF/CableAccessTechnologies_CISCO.pdf
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post #338 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 05:15 PM
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Gregzoll if you will just concede you made a mistake about what you posted.: Docsis has always been used as the delivery method of Video to Set top boxes, regardless if it was a analog broadcast, or digital, since 2001, when digital Set Top Boxes really became mainstream.

Than I am good, other than that and you think your right than I guess your looking out from a mine shaft with burying your self so deep you can't see the sun buddy. Are serious with analog and digital being Docsis (which still makes me laugh) and Docsis being IP and Multicast/Unicast being the IP delivery method, Better yet you think analog which is analog with NTSC analog tuners get its video thru Docsis......tongue.gif

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post #339 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Really Cox has several Gigabits of bandwidth? That is pretty small. You like YBSane, need to first get your terms correct, then you like them need to get your info correct. I am not going to argue with you anymore, because it is pointless, due to you have been caught like YBSane in a number of lies from the beginning, that you both show that you do not know what you are talking about.

BiggAW, give it up, you are going to keep on losing on this argument.

Coax and Cox do, yes. SMALL??? HAHAHAHA. U-Verse has 32mbps if you're lucky. I am going to lose? You're funny.
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Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

Cox has 85 QAM channels in it's 1-Ghz systems and if you do the math that comes out to over 3.2 Gigs of bandwidth, not very hard to understand. Are you still puzzled with the Multicast video over Docsis IP and how QAM tuners are extracting MPEG-2/4 containers in the stream.? I realize there was no retort for that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

ybsane, Docsis has always been used as the delivery method of Video to Set top boxes, regardless if it was a analog broadcast, or digital, since 2001, when digital Set Top Boxes really became mainstream. Keep on digging that hole deeper buddy

Do you want to retract what you said here than..? And how is Docsis and AM-VSB analog related and yes I am throwing big words at you now, because you have no idea of what you have posted prior now do you..? And would do a FCC proof of performance test on analog for Audio-Video delta, C/N, CTB, and in band flatness if it is Docsis video...?

I was cracking up reading his crap. He's just started posting Wikipedia pages for stuff, as he has no clue what he's talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Not all of Cox's plants are 1ghz systems. There are a lot that are still 850mhz and lower.

The 85 QAM channels that Cox uses, means that they have anywhere from 8-12 SD, and 2-4 HD, along with they are also using some of the QAM channels for Digital phone, Internet. Just because they have 85 QAM modulators on the system, does not mean that they have 3.2gigs of bandwidth.

Again you like BiggAW, I am done with, because it really shows that both of you cannot get it, and will keep fighting this, until basically it hits both of you like a Mack Truck, if you both really read the citations posted.

ROFL. If you take an 860mhz system that's all digital, that's 135 downstream channels, 135 * 38 = 5,130mbps. And that's shared in a neighborhood, whereas U-Verse has, if you're lucky, 32mbps to one house. Those numbers BOTH include phone, VOD, internet, video, anything else they push through it.

That's all today. U-Verse can pair bond, and maybe get to 40-60mbps per house, if they're lucky. With DOCSIS 3.1, cable can push the plant up to 1.1 or 1.2ghz, and use OFDMA for part of the system. OFDMA is about 2x as efficient as 256-QAM. Based on that, assuming DOCSIS 3.1 from 1ghz-1.2ghz, and DOCSIS 3 and QAM channels below that, a system will be able to have over 8.5gbps. You start doing MPEG-4 for video, and you're looking at every HD and SD channel currently available in amazing quality, room for 3D and a few 4k channels with HEVC, tons of VOD, AND 500mbps internet. Try getting twisted pair copper to do THAT.
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post #340 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 08:10 PM
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Wow, did not think a simple question about twisted pair/Uverse would cause such a storm. I do know enough to understand that twisted pair is a much smaller "pipe" for data as compared to coax or fiber. I realize A T & T has worked magic with the existing copper pair infrastructure but thought they would go with something better for new construction.
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post #341 of 388 Old 04-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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Wow, did not think a simple question about twisted pair/Uverse would cause such a storm. I do know enough to understand that twisted pair is a much smaller "pipe" for data as compared to coax or fiber. I realize A T & T has worked magic with the existing copper pair infrastructure but thought they would go with something better for new construction.

Twisted pair is extremely limited for those distances. You would think that AT&T would up the ante where they could easily do FTTH, but in keeping with their history on DSL, they only use technology to push the services out farther, not make them faster or better.
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post #342 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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Ronc54, they are. In Austin, they are in the process of bringing fiber to the home at 1gig, to compete with Google's fiber to the home.

And actually, Copper pair can do a lot more than some on here seem to believe that it cannot, due to they live in this fantasy world. 4k is 5-10 years down the road, but the chipsets for IPTV are in the works, to deliver on the systems like UVerse, etc.

Again, there is still a lot to come, and ATT is just getting started. They will be doing things that catv will not be doing, come the next two to three years, and will surpase them in what they will deliver.
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post #343 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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post #344 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 01:59 PM
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Ronc54, they are. In Austin, they are in the process of bringing fiber to the home at 1gig, to compete with Google's fiber to the home.

And actually, Copper pair can do a lot more than some on here seem to believe that it cannot, due to they live in this fantasy world. 4k is 5-10 years down the road, but the chipsets for IPTV are in the works, to deliver on the systems like UVerse, etc.

Again, there is still a lot to come, and ATT is just getting started. They will be doing things that catv will not be doing, come the next two to three years, and will surpase them in what they will deliver.

They made some press releases. Whether that ends up getting on the poles, who knows. They haven't announced any details, like where, how many neighborhoods will be wired, or if it will be all FTTB in MDU's, we just don't know. AT&T won't be doing anything of interest until they get GPON FTTH out to a LOT of houses in a LOT of places. Maybe they will prove me all wrong and use U-Verse as a stepping stone to wiring tens of millions of customers with GPON FTTH, but I really doubt it.
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post #345 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 02:25 PM
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They made some press releases. Whether that ends up getting on the poles, who knows. They haven't announced any details, like where, how many neighborhoods will be wired, or if it will be all FTTB in MDU's, we just don't know. AT&T won't be doing anything of interest until they get GPON FTTH out to a LOT of houses in a LOT of places. Maybe they will prove me all wrong and use U-Verse as a stepping stone to wiring tens of millions of customers with GPON FTTH, but I really doubt it.

Active E would give you 1Gbps to the home, for GPON you would take 5Gbps and divide by 32 potential users= 156mbps per customer if all are used off that 32-way splitter.

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post #346 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 04:33 PM
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Active E would give you 1Gbps to the home, for GPON you would take 5Gbps and divide by 32 potential users= 156mbps per customer if all are used off that 32-way splitter.

The system Verizon uses is 2.4gpbs to 32 subs, but you can offer 1gbps service in just the same way that Comcast offers 20mbps and 50mbps service to hundreds of customers on ~300mbps of total bandwidth. What is Google using for their service? I favor GPON, since during a power event, you can use battery/generator at the customer's end, and the diesel backup kicks on at the CO and you're all set. No need to push generators out into the field like HFC or FTTN systems.
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post #347 of 388 Old 04-15-2013, 04:49 PM
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The system Verizon uses is 2.4gpbs to 32 subs, but you can offer 1gbps service in just the same way that Comcast offers 20mbps and 50mbps service to hundreds of customers on ~300mbps of total bandwidth. What is Google using for their service? I favor GPON, since during a power event, you can use battery/generator at the customer's end, and the diesel backup kicks on at the CO and you're all set. No need to push generators out into the field like HFC or FTTN systems.

I heard they are using a Alcatel-Lucent system but can not verify, the cards on the chasis can be 2.4Gbps/5Gbps, and 10Gbps depending on how deep your pockets are. 2.4Gbps seem to be the norm depending where you space your LCP cabinets in the field in regard to house count and total customers.

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post #348 of 388 Old 04-16-2013, 06:17 PM
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I heard they are using a Alcatel-Lucent system but can not verify, the cards on the chasis can be 2.4Gbps/5Gbps, and 10Gbps depending on how deep your pockets are. 2.4Gbps seem to be the norm depending where you space your LCP cabinets in the field in regard to house count and total customers.

The system they have now is 2.4gbps down in GPON areas, 622mbps down in BPON areas (although apparently some are now mixed BPON and GPON to support the higher tiers). I don't doubt that they could crank the bandwidth up to 5 or 10gbps per 32 subs if they put new gear at the CO, and new ONTs.
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post #349 of 388 Old 06-27-2013, 10:20 PM
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Funny how the commercials have much better picture quality than the actual programming on U-Verse. Is this normal for providers? I mean you can see individual hairs and skin pours on the commercials but then the show comes on and it's blurry and pixelated up the wazoo.
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post #350 of 388 Old 06-28-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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Funny how the commercials have much better picture quality than the actual programming on U-Verse. Is this normal for providers? I mean you can see individual hairs and skin pours on the commercials but then the show comes on and it's blurry and pixelated up the wazoo.
Depends on the channel and programming. Without you giving examples of the channels you are watching or show, no one can compare to what they are seeing, if it is not a local broadcaster in your area.
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post #351 of 388 Old 03-23-2014, 05:48 PM
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Any updates on Uverse pq? Particularly anyone who is in the Atlanta area. Just moved to ATL from Alabama where I've happily had D* for 7 years. At this point, I'm convinced that nothing touches D* pq, but, Uverse has offered me a good deal for TV and internet, plus, we'll be renting in ATL, and don't think I can install a dish on the new townhouse. So, it was either Uverse or Xfinity, which I don't like the thought of.

My new neighborhood was built pretty recent (2009), cables are buried and all, so I'd assume the VRAD is nearby. If so, do you thing my pq will be positively affected?

Thanks for any guidance. Really wish I could keep my D*.
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post #352 of 388 Old 03-24-2014, 10:33 AM
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I'm also curious about U-Verse TV quality, particularly for the San Diego area. I'm in the Serra Mesa area (just south of Montgomery Field airport) and I don't know where the VRAD is.

I switched my Internet from the DSL modem i had for several years to the U-Verse combo modem/router (I've had it for several months now).

I was going to switch from TWC to U-Verse because they had the Fox Sports San Diego channel (for Padres games) and TWC did not, but that situation changed in the last few weeks because TWC finally signed the carriage agreement to carry FSSD starting March 30.
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post #353 of 388 Old 03-25-2014, 07:48 PM
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Any updates on Uverse pq? Particularly anyone who is in the Atlanta area. Just moved to ATL from Alabama where I've happily had D* for 7 years. At this point, I'm convinced that nothing touches D* pq, but, Uverse has offered me a good deal for TV and internet, plus, we'll be renting in ATL, and don't think I can install a dish on the new townhouse. So, it was either Uverse or Xfinity, which I don't like the thought of.

My new neighborhood was built pretty recent (2009), cables are buried and all, so I'd assume the VRAD is nearby. If so, do you thing my pq will be positively affected?

Thanks for any guidance. Really wish I could keep my D*.

VRAD distance has nothing to do with PQ. It's a fixed bitrate. It will determine what speeds and how many HDs you can get. U-Verse is a pixelated mess. It's junk. It's a fundamentally crippled system.

Comcast has been getting better with their tri-muxing, but they are still no DirecTV. Comcast is doing the real thing, you can have as many tuners and as much internet (up to your speed tier) as you want at the same time. U-Verse is a joke. It's like a shoestring and bubble gum. The internet slows down when you're recording or watching multiple HD shows. What is this, 2002 when you had to have two phones lines to talk on the phone and go on the internet at the same time? It's pathetic. And you have to use their crappy box, whereas XFinity supports TiVo through CableCard, and owning your own modem that can get 50mbps through Blast!.
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post #354 of 388 Old 03-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

VRAD distance has nothing to do with PQ. It's a fixed bitrate. It will determine what speeds and how many HDs you can get. U-Verse is a pixelated mess. It's junk. It's a fundamentally crippled system.

Comcast has been getting better with their tri-muxing, but they are still no DirecTV. Comcast is doing the real thing, you can have as many tuners and as much internet (up to your speed tier) as you want at the same time. U-Verse is a joke. It's like a shoestring and bubble gum. The internet slows down when you're recording or watching multiple HD shows. What is this, 2002 when you had to have two phones lines to talk on the phone and go on the internet at the same time? It's pathetic. And you have to use their crappy box, whereas XFinity supports TiVo through CableCard, and owning your own modem that can get 50mbps through Blast!.
And there it is.... Well, that's pretty disturbing and settles it. I'm canceling that ATT order tomorrow and going with Comcast. I hate cable, yes, but hate poor PQ even more. Man, I'm really gonna miss my D*. Well, at least I get Watch ESPN this way...

Thanks for the reply.
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post #355 of 388 Old 03-25-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

And there it is.... Well, that's pretty disturbing and settles it. I'm canceling that ATT order tomorrow and going with Comcast. I hate cable, yes, but hate poor PQ even more. Man, I'm really gonna miss my D*. Well, at least I get Watch ESPN this way...

Thanks for the reply.

No problem. If you're going to stay with cable for a long time, a TiVo might make you miss D* a bit less... although it won't do anything about the PQ. Try getting a year or two year bundle deal with Comcast, you can save a lot. I got a no-contract bundle that lasts 2 years for internet and TV.
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post #356 of 388 Old 03-26-2014, 06:18 AM
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I've never had Direct (or Dish). At my home (in Nashville) Uverse has a good picture. The picture is great on my most expensive TV (a new 60" Samsung).
I don't have any more problems with picture quality on my other sets than I did with xfinity.
The internet is much slower than xfinity, but acceptable. That would be my reason to go back.
I stick to Uverse because, at least in Nashville, Uverse offers dozens more HD channels than xfinity. That is it's best selling point.

Just one opinion.
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post #357 of 388 Old 03-26-2014, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMABLUHD View Post

And there it is.... Well, that's pretty disturbing and settles it. I'm canceling that ATT order tomorrow and going with Comcast. I hate cable, yes, but hate poor PQ even more. Man, I'm really gonna miss my D*. Well, at least I get Watch ESPN this way...

Thanks for the reply.
For everyone like BIggAW who hates U-Verse, there are dozens of us who like it. Don't base your choice on one person's comment. My two sons also have/had U-Verse. The one who switched to Comcast/Xfinity did so because of the faster internet speed, but he also said the picture quality on both are a toss-up as to which is better. My other son is perfectly happy with U-Verse as am I.
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post #358 of 388 Old 03-26-2014, 08:42 AM
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I've had Dish for several years, picture quality is excellent, Hopper is better than Great!

Anyone switch from Dish to Uverse lately? Does the Uverse Dvr now allow 4 HD recordings?

Does Uverse carry the same Red Zone channel?
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post #359 of 388 Old 03-26-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GqMagic View Post

I've had Dish for several years, picture quality is excellent, Hopper is better than Great!

Anyone switch from Dish to Uverse lately? Does the Uverse Dvr now allow 4 HD recordings?

Does Uverse carry the same Red Zone channel?
U-Verse will still allow you to only record 3 HD shows at once, but unlike Comcast, you can view AND record from any receiver in the house. With Comcast, you can view from any room but MUST record in the room where the DVR is located. So, if the phone rings or someone comes to the door and you aren't near the DVR, you still have to make a choice if you don't want to miss the show you are watching. With U-Verse, just hit the "Record" button.
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post #360 of 388 Old 03-26-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

With Comcast, you can view from any room but MUST record in the room where the DVR is located.

No longer true w/the X1 MR-DVR...& you can now record up to 4 shows at once, while still watching a 5th LIVE show. (can't record from the 5th tuner)
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