Copper on BBC America - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Watched the pilot for this show and, while it's not perfect, it has a lot going for it. I noticed from the beginning that both its 5.1 audio and PQ were terrific. With the exception of Anastasia Griffith, who has done a lot of US television work, and Franka Potente, of Bourne movies fame, I had never seen anyone in the cast. The show takes a look at law enforcement in 1864 New York City and what it shows us is ugly. We see everything from the exploitation and murder of children to crooked cops on the take who cover up the crimes of rich, well connected citizens. The protagonist is a tough Irish detective, who has been not long back from the Civil War.

On the down side, I have not been particularly impressed by the show's young star, Tom Weston-Jones, who plays the Irish detective, Kevin Corcoran. He may grown on me though, so I plan to stick around, at least for a while. Take a look for yourselves and see what you think.
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post #2 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Watched the pilot for this show and, while it's not perfect, it has a lot going for it. I noticed from the beginning that both its 5.1 audio and PQ were terrific. With the exception of Anastasia Griffith, who has done a lot of US television work, and Franka Potente, of Bourne movies fame, I had never seen anyone in the cast. The show takes a look at law enforcement in 1864 New York City and what it shows us is ugly. We see everything from the exploitation and murder of children to crooked cops on the take who cover up the crimes of rich, well connected citizens. The protagonist is a tough Irish detective, who has been not long back from the Civil War.
On the down side, I have not been particularly impressed by the show's young star, Tom Weston-Jones, who plays the Irish detective, Kevin Corcoran. He may grown on me though, so I plan to stick around, at least for a while. Take a look for yourselves and see what you think.
Exactly my take on this series. It has some of the same "feeling" as Deadwood. I will continue with it for now.
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post #3 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly my take on this series. It has some of the same "feeling" as Deadwood. I will continue with it for now.
Glad you made the Deadwood analogy, that was exactly what I was thinking as I watched the opening credits. The AQ and PQ were both so wonderful that I decided to stick with it, despite what I finally decided had been a not terribly well written or well performed pilot episode.
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post #4 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 01:22 PM
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Read an IMDB review which was disappointing...said they've got the look and feel of a quasi-Deadwood or better Gangs of NY, but the acting in general and the main character in particular were lacking...and they were using contemporary language rather than accents and cants of speech that were done so well in the above 2 examples. So I've passed so far...normally, I'd be all over this.

I don't lurk as much as I used to and I NEVER listen. Comes from being old and cynical.

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post #5 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Read an IMDB review which was disappointing...said they've got the look and feel of a quasi-Deadwood or better Gangs of NY, but the acting in general and the main character in particular were lacking...and they were using contemporary language rather than accents and cants of speech that were done so well in the above 2 examples. So I've passed so far...normally, I'd be all over this.
I recommend that you give it a whirl. Copper's wonderful PQ and AQ make dipping a toe in the water worthwhile. I agree, though, that the writing was leaden, which makes me suspect that I may have underestimated the acting talent of the performers. They were given precious little to work with. I can't understand why a series, which does such a good job in the technical areas couldn't have been better written. Nevertheless, I will represent to you that watching a couple of episodes shouldn't be a waste of your time.
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post #6 of 185 Old 08-21-2012, 10:13 PM
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I liked it. Wondering if the child's murder will be tied up soon or carry on all season?

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post #7 of 185 Old 08-22-2012, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I liked it. Wondering if the child's murder will be tied up soon or carry on all season?
I thought the murder of the child was designed to show us the forensics prowess of Corcoran's friend, Dr. Matthew Freeman, and the perfidy of Elizabeth Haverford's husband, whose guilt was established by Dr. Freeman's forensics skill and Corcoran's relentless detective work. With Dr. Freeman's skill and the villainy of Elizabeth's husband now established, I wonder what would be gained by spending much more time on the child's murder.
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post #8 of 185 Old 08-22-2012, 01:03 PM
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I thought the murder of the child was designed to show us the forensics prowess of Corcoran's friend, Dr. Matthew Freeman, and the perfidy of Elizabeth Haverford's husband, whose guilt was established by Dr. Freeman's forensics skill and Corcoran's relentless detective work. With Dr. Freeman's skill and the villainy of Elizabeth's husband now established, I wonder what would be gained by spending much more time on the child's murder.


I wasn't clear I guess. What I'm wondering if the season will be framed by what happened in this episode. Or will it just move on to stand alones? There is the issue of bringing the killer to justice, plus the situation with the sister as well as the possibility of the killer doing it again.Plus the hero doesn't seem the kind to let it go.

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post #9 of 185 Old 08-22-2012, 01:32 PM
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I wasn't clear I guess. What I'm wondering if the season will be framed by what happened in this episode. Or will it just move on to stand alones? There is the issue of bringing the killer to justice, plus the situation with the sister as well as the possibility of the killer doing it again.Plus the hero doesn't seem the kind to let it go.
I think it will have some impact on how Corcoran investigates and follows up on child related crime because of how it may effect him personally, his daughter is missing, and one possible outcome to that mystery might be that she may have ended in a similar situation as Annie and her sister.
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post #10 of 185 Old 08-22-2012, 02:50 PM
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Looks like 'Copper' rated well for BBC America : http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/08/21/bbc-americas-copper-becomes-the-channels-highest-rated-series-premiere-ever/145614/
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post #11 of 185 Old 08-22-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

I wasn't clear I guess. What I'm wondering if the season will be framed by what happened in this episode. Or will it just move on to stand alones? There is the issue of bringing the killer to justice, plus the situation with the sister as well as the possibility of the killer doing it again.Plus the hero doesn't seem the kind to let it go.
Gotcha! I hope they stick with the thread involving the elegant lady and her murderous husband. I would hate to see the show deteriorate into a Crime-of-the-Week situation. Yawn. It makes sense to stick with trying to corner the child's murderer. Corcoran has assumed responsibility for the dead little girl's twin sister and he has lost his own young daughter. That coupled with the Corcoran's relentlessness and the possibility of a romance developing between him and the bad guy's wife makes me hope that the writers stick with the child rape and murder thread.
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post #12 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

I think it will have some impact on how Corcoran investigates and follows up on child related crime because of how it may effect him personally, his daughter is missing, and one possible outcome to that mystery might be that she may have ended in a similar situation as Annie and her sister.

His daughter is dead. You must have missed the scene of him standing in front of her tombstone after the murdered girl was buried.

I'm liking the show so far.
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post #13 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 11:09 AM
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I had it recorded and just watched it today. I'm now a fan of the show and will be watching weekly.
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post #14 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 11:36 AM
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His daughter is dead. You must have missed the scene of him standing in front of her tombstone after the murdered girl was buried.
I'm liking the show so far.
You're right, I had completely blanked on that, it's his wife that's missing.

I'm enjoying the show although that set seems a bit claustrophobic, I do hope we'll see some scenes without set-built buildings all around, or CGI background like the Fifth Ave scenes.
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post #15 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

You're right, I had completely blanked on that, it's his wife that's missing.
I'm enjoying the show although that set seems a bit claustrophobic, I do hope we'll see some scenes without set-built buildings all around, or CGI background like the Fifth Ave scenes.
Since it's supposed to take place in NY City, I wouldn't count on it.

Now, had "Copper" been referring to a mining operation, you'd likely see 360 degree vistas in every shot... wink.gif

The problem with a period drama set in a city is it's usually backlot shots supplimented by CGI and those, by nature of keeping the CN Tower out of the shot, means things will be claustrophobic. Besides, it gets expensive to dress a large set for a lot of wide angles. You can do a lot with tighter shots on a budget.
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post #16 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 12:08 PM
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Since it's supposed to take place in NY City, I wouldn't count on it.
Now, had "Copper" been referring to a mining operation, you'd likely see 360 degree vistas in every shot... wink.gif
The problem with a period drama set in a city is it's usually backlot shots supplimented by CGI and those, by nature of keeping the CN Tower out of the shot, means things will be claustrophobic. Besides, it gets expensive to dress a large set for a lot of wide angles. You can do a lot with tighter shots on a budget.
Certainly, it's just unfortunate though as it really is claustrophobic and while Deadwood was obviously not New York City the open air-ness of the set made it very realistic, because it was real. With Copper I know I'm looking at a backlot set because it looks exactly like one and it detracts from the enjoyment of the story, at least for me anyway. And the CGI backgrounds are not very good at all which makes the experience even worse. I know cost is always a huge consideration, but in my opinion it really shows with this show, I suppose that's a large part of the difference between a BBCA budget and a HBO budget. smile.gif
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post #17 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 12:20 PM
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I'm enjoying it. Like the look and feel of it and as mentioned the audio and PQ was great. Looking forward to the next episode. Hope they continue with the same plot and not go with the murder of the week format.

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post #18 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 12:44 PM
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I suppose that's a large part of the difference between a BBC budget and a HBO budget. smile.gif

Though it's not a BBC show in the sense of a show made for the BBC in the UK with a UK BBC budget. It appears to be a BBC America commissioned show.
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post #19 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 02:26 PM
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Though it's not a BBC show in the sense of a show made for the BBC in the UK with a UK BBC budget. It appears to be a BBC America commissioned show.
Right, I should have included the America portion. In fact, I doubt even HBO could come close to the outstanding production and quality of the BBC nature shows, simply the best, there is no equal.
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post #20 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 02:34 PM
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I liked the pilot so will keep watching it. That period was really ugly and our history books had a way of sanitizing it. BBC America ran a "Gangs of New York" marathon a week or so ago as a warm-up. The interesting thing is it fits in their "cops" themed slot for that time period. One thing missing for authenticity would be even more accents. The only historic film that got that right was "Ravenous" where you practically needed subtitles to follow because the director new that people of that period would all have broken English with heavy accents. Of course that would be ratings killer.
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post #21 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 03:01 PM
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Considering the general lawlesness of the time, and Copper's brand of "Death Wish" style street justice, why not hire a gang of toughs to assassinate the perfidious Mr.Haverford?

thanks for expanding my vocabulary gwsat smile.gif
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post #22 of 185 Old 08-23-2012, 05:11 PM
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Considering the general lawlesness of the time, and Copper's brand of "Death Wish" style street justice, why not hire a gang of toughs to assassinate the perfidious Mr.Haverford?
thanks for expanding my vocabulary gwsat smile.gif
Well, actually, back then, the opposite would have happened. It would be more likely there would be a gang of thugs working for Mr. Haverford along the lines of the Pinkerton Police. Those guys were essentially hired guns that would bash your head in for attempting to hop a train or hold some sort of union labor rally. They were even known to have pulled off an assassination or two.
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post #23 of 185 Old 08-27-2012, 04:15 PM
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It would be more likely there would be a gang of thugs working for Mr. Haverford along the lines of the Pinkerton Police. .

Nice call :-) Copper's solution to the "Winnie" problem was epic. I'm a fan now.
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post #24 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 08:02 AM
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Well, actually, back then, the opposite would have happened. It would be more likely there would be a gang of thugs working for Mr. Haverford along the lines of the Pinkerton Police. Those guys were essentially hired guns that would bash your head in for attempting to hop a train or hold some sort of union labor rally. They were even known to have pulled off an assassination or two.

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post #25 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 08:53 AM
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Watched the 2 episodes and have become hooked.

Somewhat on the lines of GONY, Deadwood, and Boardwalk Empire.
However, as yet, not on the same level as those 3.

Love the attempt to be faithful to the time and place....nice and gritty (as it really was).
NY was a horrible place back then: violent, filthy, poverty, and racism up the wazoo.

Although most are competent, there is a real lack of charisma from the main actors.
Not such a good thing for a TV series long term.wink.gif

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post #26 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 12:44 PM
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I dunno, I kind of like the lead. The role seems written kinda cliched and he manages to add some quirks and mannerisms that make it more believable. Maybe thats just me though...I find his two loyal fellow cops interesting too, but I've got a bad feeling at least one of them won't make it to the end of the season.

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post #27 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 01:56 PM
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Add me to the list of fans of this show. The acting is well..basic cable. However, I am a fan of the writing. I especially enjoyed the fact that they didn't drag upon the justice for the girl arc too long. Two episodes? Imagine if "True Blood" wrapped up its story lines that quickly.
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Right, I should have included the America portion. In fact, I doubt even HBO could come close to the outstanding production and quality of the BBC nature shows, simply the best, there is no equal.
HBO and the big four (Time Warner, Fox, Disney, Comcast/Universal and Viacom) are perfectly capable of such production. However, the payoff for such an endeavor would not be as beneficial as "The Bachelor" or "Kitchen Nightmares."
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Love the attempt to be faithful to the time and place....nice and gritty (as it really was).
NY was a horrible place back then: violent, filthy, poverty, and racism up the wazoo.
Back then? frown.gif
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post #28 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 02:28 PM
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I'm in too. The comparisons to Deadwood are pretty right on. The first show I recall, with the main character waiting for the robbery to go down, wondering whether this was going to be one of the historical pieces with modern sensibilities. Then they brutally killed the robbers and started stealing the money themselves and I thought: "I'm in."

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post #29 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Watched the 2 episodes and have become hooked.
Somewhat on the lines of GONY, Deadwood, and Boardwalk Empire.
However, as yet, not on the same level as those 3.
Love the attempt to be faithful to the time and place....nice and gritty (as it really was).
NY was a horrible place back then: violent, filthy, poverty, and racism up the wazoo.
Although most are competent, there is a real lack of charisma from the main actors.
Not such a good thing for a TV series long term.wink.gif

Bingo partner! I could not agree with your analysis more. This week's show moved fast and was very exciting but the writing once again left a lot to be desired. I thought Corcoran's act of encouraging the child to kill Winfred Haverford was preposterous and off-putting, no mater how much Haverford deserved his fate. Once again our young star who plays Corcoran struck me as being a little short of being ready for prime time. No matter though, the show continues to look great and sound even better. That along with its never-a-dull-monemt vibe guarantees that I will be around for a while. Also, it occurs to me that Corcoran is more than a little crazy. If so, his encouragement of the surviving twin to kill Haverford makes a little more sense than it did at first blush.
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post #30 of 185 Old 08-28-2012, 06:55 PM
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He was also stoned to the gills on morphine or opium.

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