Elementary - New Sherlock Holmes on CBS - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 10:31 AM
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And that shot was in the season finale, so Jarod, you must have missed it. Can't remember if it was a photo or a flashback.
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post #362 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 10:56 AM
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I think it was the pool of blood. I assume it was her blood, meaning that they tested it for DNA?
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post #363 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 11:27 AM
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You know what's funny? Whenever there's a criminal mastermind character in any fictitious setting, they have to have a weakness and make mistakes--or missed opportunities to avoid defeat...and of course the hero prevails in the end. If this show's finale bothered people, then so should pretty much 99.9% of the rest of the shows/movies, where the genius villain is defeated in the end...

Every James Bond movie...

Every Mission Impossible movie...

Every Die Hard movie...

The Emperor didn't have to be on the Death Star to set the trap for the Rebels...

Red John should go ahead and kill Jane...now.

etc...

For the audience it's like watching Football....it's frustrating when we can see a penalty but the Ref doesn't call it--or we see someone line up offside, but the player seems oblivious and gives the offense another set of downs--these people are supposed to be professionals...if we see it, then they should--right? I guess super villains are written the same way--in order for the good guy to win against overwhelming odds--the villain has to make a mistake...miss a call or line up in the neutral zone.

When Moriarty revealed herself to Holmes in his house...I was thinking someone should catch her now!

When Moriarty semi-abducted Watson for lunch...I was thinking someone should catch her now!

When Moriarty sat on a Park bench with a man the police were interested in...I was thinking someone should catch her now!

When Moriarty showed up in Sherlock's hospital room...I was thinking "OH COME ON!" someone should catch her now!....YES! nice play Watson...(pat her on the behind lol)

The interesting part that was brought up during the show, was that until the recording in the hospital room...they didn't have a strong case against her. Sherlock mentioned so far all they could really bring her in for--without more evidence--was saving his life. They needed that confession.

The ending was fine to me...if you guys want to pick at plot points...how about the paint thing? She wasn't really a prisoner, so why did her assassin's brother buy the paint for him to give to her?...that makes no sense. It wasn't like she was trying to cover her tracks, because she wasn't even aware of how the police tracked down the assassin at first. I'll have to re-watch it, but I don't remember it looking like she was trying to set him up to get caught by the police. The whole paint thing seemed like it was written before they decided to make Irene Moriarty...

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post #364 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

When Holmes got to her flat, there was a Moran setup with a ton of her blood on the floor. We assume they tested it. No body. However, there were several different missing bodies because he disposed of them in the river. In the Moran episode, he confessed to all the killings except Irene. He told Holmes that one was on Moriarty.
None of that equates to Holmes being SURE that she was dead. In fact, I would expect that with his personal involvement with her he would hold out hope that she was alive, not the other way around. Holmes stating previously that Irene was dead smells like a cheat by the writers so that the viewers are completely surprised when Irene shows up alive.
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post #365 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 12:31 PM
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I think it was the pool of blood. I assume it was her blood, meaning that they tested it for DNA?

Easy: she could have been stockpiling her own blood, then spread several pints on the floor, so if they did DNA testing it was hers..

I can almost bet next season she escapes, "the Following" style perhaps or some other method.

Man Moriarty is so hot, almost made me forget Wilson, but at the end Wilson won..

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post #366 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

You know what's funny? Whenever there's a criminal mastermind character in any fictitious setting, they have to have a weakness and make mistakes--or missed opportunities to avoid defeat...and of course the hero prevails in the end. If this show's finale bothered people, then so should pretty much 99.9% of the rest of the shows/movies, where the genius villain is defeated in the end...

Every James Bond movie...

Every Mission Impossible movie...

Every Die Hard movie...

The Emperor didn't have to be on the Death Star to set the trap for the Rebels...
Those are genius villains? Really? They're more on the scale of Dr. Evil than Moriarty. In fact, in the world of film and literature I don't think many would actually qualify as "genius villains." But at the top of the list is Doyle's Moriarty, and, for a while, Elementary's Moriarty. And the villain doesn't have to make a bad move/do something incredibly stupid to be caught. It could just be really bad luck. Or maybe a worthy adversary outsmarts him. In this case, the worthy adversary relied on an incredibly stupid move by the no-longer-genius villain. If Moriarty HAD to be caught, then have Holmes do something incredibly clever to catch her, without relying on a complete misplay by the villain. I think the problem here is that the show tries so hard to incorporate Watson into the show and make her useful that it interferes/takes away from the best part of the show-HOLMES.
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post #367 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 01:01 PM
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I refuse to believe that she was Moriarty. She was set-up by Moriarty, maybe, but even Elementary's Moriarty is not that dumb.
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post #368 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 01:05 PM
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Well female Watson worked well here, and for a shock factor if Moriarty is female and that clever she could work out, but like I said, being that smart and with her many resources I bet she escapes first thing next season.

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post #369 of 438 Old 05-20-2013, 04:18 PM
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Well female Watson worked well here, and for a shock factor if Moriarty is female and that clever she could work out, but like I said, being that smart and with her many resources I bet she escapes first thing next season.
disappointing. I expected at least a draw, like Darth spinning away to safety after Solo cleared the way for Luke. that way we know there will be another confrontation at a later time.
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post #370 of 438 Old 05-21-2013, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarod M View Post

Those are genius villains? Really? They're more on the scale of Dr. Evil than Moriarty. In fact, in the world of film and literature I don't think many would actually qualify as "genius villains." But at the top of the list is Doyle's Moriarty, and, for a while, Elementary's Moriarty. And the villain doesn't have to make a bad move/do something incredibly stupid to be caught. It could just be really bad luck. Or maybe a worthy adversary outsmarts him. In this case, the worthy adversary relied on an incredibly stupid move by the no-longer-genius villain. If Moriarty HAD to be caught, then have Holmes do something incredibly clever to catch her, without relying on a complete misplay by the villain. I think the problem here is that the show tries so hard to incorporate Watson into the show and make her useful that it interferes/takes away from the best part of the show-HOLMES.

I don't know much about the many versions of Sherlock and Moriarty...perhaps you can tell me if in any of the stories told, does Moriarty recognize Sherlock as a threat, and then tries earnestly to have him killed in a simple manner?...or does he try to prove he's smarter or toy with Holmes in some way? Does he seize any opportunity presented to eliminate the threat?...or does he have Sherlock brought to the Death Star and then tries to kill him in front of his father?

Why was she no longer "genius"??? HER PLAN WORKED...SHE BEAT SHERLOCK AND MADE A BAJILLION DOLLARS, ALL WHILE BEING FAIRLY RECKLESS...it was like most criminal masterminds' plans portrayed in movies/tv...too convoluted, and too many variables--anything could go wrong...she pulled it off though! IN SHERLOCK'S FACE!...and since Watson wasn't even in her league..."afraid of Sherlock"...HA! It'll be a cold day in a hospital room before she has to worry about Watson!

So let's see...the story is that Moriarty and Sherlock are in love with each other, but Sherlock keeps interfering with Moriarty's plans, so Moriarty tries to distract Sherlock by faking her death--that would give him something else to investigate for a while--but wait, he's gone and done what?...drug abuse? Ok, I can see Moriarty feeling a little guilty about that--she does love him--but wait, he's getting better and moving on, but crap! Now he's interfering with another one of Moriarty's schemes...sigh. Well that's okay, Moriarty will just reappear and have Sherlock and crew investigate her fake kidnapping, until she gets her bajillionz of dollars...perfect distraction, and she gets to be with the man she loves--but hold on just a minute...why are the police at the assassin's house? How did that happen?...he's too close to the plan, the police shouldn't be snooping around there while investigating Moriarty's captivity...oh right, the paint--and then the birth marks--somehow that ties it all together and leads to Moriarty having to reveal herself while saving Holmes' life...you know, instead of letting the assassin kill him and then she kills the assassin, leaving herself in the clear--nope she does the stupid thing--but we're not talking about that, oh no--we're talking about the hospital room...yeah, she should've been smarter than that hospital visit, because up until then, she was a genius...no no wait, I have to be fair--she saved Holmes because she loves him--we can forgive that--but that doesn't mean she had to go to his hospital room ok? I mean if she was that worried about his relapse, she could've let someone else talk to Holmes or something, because surely a stranger could convince him to go with her willingly...or just called him from whatever undisclosed location just to check up and see how he was doing...you know, anything but actually worry about and try to visit the man she loves...I mean seriously, what's the worst that can happen to a drug addict that relapses and overdoses? That's nothing to be worried about...she's too smart for that.

Yeah...maybe some of you guys were watching a different show up until the end?

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post #371 of 438 Old 05-21-2013, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by JediMastr View Post

I don't know much about the many versions of Sherlock and Moriarty...perhaps you can tell me if in any of the stories told, does Moriarty recognize Sherlock as a threat, and then tries earnestly to have him killed in a simple manner?...or does he try to prove he's smarter or toy with Holmes in some way? Does he seize any opportunity presented to eliminate the threat?...or does he have Sherlock brought to the Death Star and then tries to kill him in front of his father?

Why was she no longer "genius"??? HER PLAN WORKED...SHE BEAT SHERLOCK AND MADE A BAJILLION DOLLARS, ALL WHILE BEING FAIRLY RECKLESS...it was like most criminal masterminds' plans portrayed in movies/tv...too convoluted, and too many variables--anything could go wrong...she pulled it off though! IN SHERLOCK'S FACE!...and since Watson wasn't even in her league..."afraid of Sherlock"...HA! It'll be a cold day in a hospital room before she has to worry about Watson!

So let's see...the story is that Moriarty and Sherlock are in love with each other, but Sherlock keeps interfering with Moriarty's plans, so Moriarty tries to distract Sherlock by faking her death--that would give him something else to investigate for a while--but wait, he's gone and done what?...drug abuse? Ok, I can see Moriarty feeling a little guilty about that--she does love him--but wait, he's getting better and moving on, but crap! Now he's interfering with another one of Moriarty's schemes...sigh. Well that's okay, Moriarty will just reappear and have Sherlock and crew investigate her fake kidnapping, until she gets her bajillionz of dollars...perfect distraction, and she gets to be with the man she loves--but hold on just a minute...why are the police at the assassin's house? How did that happen?...he's too close to the plan, the police shouldn't be snooping around there while investigating Moriarty's captivity...oh right, the paint--and then the birth marks--somehow that ties it all together and leads to Moriarty having to reveal herself while saving Holmes' life...you know, instead of letting the assassin kill him and then she kills the assassin, leaving herself in the clear--nope she does the stupid thing--but we're not talking about that, oh no--we're talking about the hospital room...yeah, she should've been smarter than that hospital visit, because up until then, she was a genius...no no wait, I have to be fair--she saved Holmes because she loves him--we can forgive that--but that doesn't mean she had to go to his hospital room ok? I mean if she was that worried about his relapse, she could've let someone else talk to Holmes or something, because surely a stranger could convince him to go with her willingly...or just called him from whatever undisclosed location just to check up and see how he was doing...you know, anything but actually worry about and try to visit the man she loves...I mean seriously, what's the worst that can happen to a drug addict that relapses and overdoses? That's nothing to be worried about...she's too smart for that.

Yeah...maybe some of you guys were watching a different show up until the end?
That about says it....nice post.

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post #372 of 438 Old 05-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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Ron,
Haven't you seen Big Bang Theory? A real genius would never go in for all that useless love and sex waste of time!
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post #373 of 438 Old 05-23-2013, 04:47 PM
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Ron,
Haven't you seen Big Bang Theory? A real genius would never go in for all that useless love and sex waste of time!
So true...I tell my wife that every day while she spikes my cereal with rat poison...she doesn't realize that because she loves me, she'll show up on my death bed to offer me an opt out. Problem is she doesn't recognize my genius and I doubt she'll show up. Guess I'm SOoL frown.gif

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post #374 of 438 Old 09-18-2013, 12:02 PM
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Looking forward to the new season, but do wonder how long they will be in London.

Cap and the boys at NYPD will have to handle things on their own while Holmes is away.....
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post #375 of 438 Old 09-27-2013, 12:37 AM
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I thought the main clue made no sense. If you take a nail out of the wall, there is a hole (duh). Then you put the nail used for a firing pin into the same hole and the masks are all aligned. The fact that Holmes could pull the nail out of the wall shows that it was in drywall, not wood. I doubt that a collector would hang a (supposedly) expensive piece of art on a nail in drywall.

Also, do the Brits keep their milk in airtight containers? The smell of acetone is quite strong and very distinctive. The cops would have smelled it when they opened the fridge. However, it looked like the acetone was in an airtight jar, which should have been suspicious in itself.

Also, wouldn't they test the husband for GSR immediately?
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post #376 of 438 Old 09-29-2013, 09:33 AM
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Also, do the Brits keep their milk in airtight containers? The smell of acetone is quite strong and very distinctive. The cops would have smelled it when they opened the fridge. However, it looked like the acetone was in an airtight jar, which should have been suspicious in itself.

In the UK these days most supermarket milk is sold in plastic bottles (usually something like 1pint, 2 pint and 4 pint bottles) with screw top lids (and a foil/plastic tear off lid underneath the screw top you remove on first opening).

Tetrapak is also used, again with a screw top plastic lid common on fresh milk.  We used to use glass bottles (with metal foil tops that weren't airtight) when milk was delivered daily door-to-door by the milkman (usually on electric powered milk floats - medium sized electric open-sided vans stacked with crates of bottles. We had fleets of them in most towns in the 70s - very green before their time)

Examples here : http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/shelves/fresh_milk_in_tesco.html (The Arla stuff is in screw-top Tetrapak, but as you see most stuff is bottled) We have universal colour coding in the UK - Blue = Whole Milk, Green = Semi-skimmed, Red=Skimmed. This is common across most manufacturers and shops.


UHT milk is usually sold in Tetrapaks that you tear to open - but most milk in UK fridges would be sealed. Not quite airtight
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post #377 of 438 Old 10-01-2013, 03:08 AM
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Having sex in one of the London Eye "bubbles" would have been difficult at best. Unless you are someone with a lot of pull, you'd never get into one all by yourself and your partner. And, becauee it is glass all around, the other riders near you would not have any trouble watching the two of you go at it.

So, Sherlock would never have been able to have sex on the London Eye and not have it make the national news.

Nobody has tried to have sex the two times that I've been on the London Eye. biggrin.gif

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post #378 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 12:56 PM
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No posts here for over a month? I love this show and the wonderful writing, characters, stories and acting. A hidden gem. Having Rhys Ifans portray Sherlock's brother MyCroft has been great. And what's he up to?
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post #379 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 04:44 PM
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Here's a question for those who have followed this show from the beginning: which episode saw the demise of the opening sequence?
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post #380 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 06:03 PM
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I believe the length of the opening is dependant on the length of the episode.
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post #381 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 06:46 PM
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I believe the length of the opening is dependant on the length of the episode.


+1

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post #382 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 06:51 PM
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I'm talking about the "theme song" with the main cast credits. I tuned in last week to see if it was still there, and there was only a title card in its place, so it must have gotten axed at some point. I was just wondering if that was a change made at the start of season 2 or if it had happened at some other point. Are you saying that it's still randomly used when the episode is 46 minutes instead of 43?
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post #383 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 06:54 PM
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Is it me or did Watson do the unusual & show a lot of "cheesecake" this ep? She's normally all bundled up..

"But I didn't do it...!"
"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #384 of 438 Old 11-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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I'm talking about the "theme song" with the main cast credits. I tuned in last week to see if it was still there, and there was only a title card in its place, so it must have gotten axed at some point. I was just wondering if that was a change made at the start of season 2 or if it had happened at some other point. Are you saying that it's still randomly used when the episode is 46 minutes instead of 43?

Yes, I meant that the theme song and visuals are still there. I noticed the title card as well and I am assuming the full length intro was cut either to squeeze in another commercial (holidays are coming, you know) or to allow a few more seconds for the story.
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post #385 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 02:16 AM
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No posts here for over a month? I love this show and the wonderful writing, characters, stories and acting. A hidden gem. Having Rhys Ifans portray Sherlock's brother MyCroft has been great. And what's he up to?


Odd, I'd call the MyCroft angle the epitome of lazy writing. After a brilliant (albeit foreshadowed) end of the last season, this season has dragged with no real great arc. The only real payoff here
is if he goes so villain Holmes has to jail/kill him.

Quit failing to flip the switch
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post #386 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 05:38 AM
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To be honest I don't need a "big bad" or long story arc in all shows.  Elementary to me is just a popcorn/fun show to watch like Hawaii 5-0. Don't think too hard, enjoy the ride and the eye candy.  If I want long story arcs and mythology I'll watch Person of Interest and Sleepy Hollow (which I do).  Give me variety in my entertainment.  :)


Scott
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post #387 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 06:29 AM
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To be honest I don't need a "big bad" or long story arc in all shows.  Elementary to me is just a popcorn/fun show to watch like Hawaii 5-0. Don't think too hard, enjoy the ride and the eye candy.  If I want long story arcs and mythology I'll watch Person of Interest and Sleepy Hollow (which I do).  Give me variety in my entertainment.  smile.gif

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post #388 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 07:23 AM
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I'm still liking it. And was surprised about Mycroft being evil. Not the first time I've been considered a rube! eek.gifwink.gif
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post #389 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 07:49 AM
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This actually finally makes sense. Watching Mycroft be nice to his brother was making me question my sanity. Still waiting for him to show some deductive ability, though.
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post #390 of 438 Old 11-19-2013, 10:25 AM
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I'm sure you've heard this before, but I can't stop myself.

You're wrong, and that's why you're on a Highway To Hell!

 

LOL


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