Doctor Who Season 7 Premiere on BBC America - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 351 Old 08-06-2013, 06:59 AM
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Definitely a job for a Timelord.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385168/London-Fatberg-weighing-15-TONNES-blocking-sewers.html
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A lump of fat the size of a double decker bus has been discovered clogging a London sewer.

The Fatberg, described as 15 tonnes of festering food mixed with wet wipes and a host of other disgusting ephemera, was found blocking pipes under Kingston in south London.

The revolting mass caused sewage flows through the pipes to be reduced to five per cent of normal capacity and was created by people pouring cooking oils down the drain and flushing sanitary products.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2385168/London-Fatberg-weighing-15-TONNES-blocking-sewers.html#ixzz2bCIhEUjM
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post #272 of 351 Old 08-06-2013, 09:56 AM
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There are several actors who played multiple characters in the Star Trek universe. I don't see this as being a big deal.
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post #273 of 351 Old 08-06-2013, 10:16 AM
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There are several actors who played multiple characters in the Star Trek universe. I don't see this as being a big deal.
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post #274 of 351 Old 08-06-2013, 11:19 PM
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There are several actors who played multiple characters in the Star Trek universe. I don't see this as being a big deal.

True ...but did any of them play Kirk, Picard, Archer, Spock, Worf, (and no ... Data doesn't count here, those multiples had specific explanations and reasons to exist smile.gif )

How would you feel If "Yeoman Rand" suddenly reappeared as "Janeway?" "Kahn" for "Picard?" ... What would you think if Mark Sheppard (who had roughly the same amount of Whoverse "guest" time as Capaldi/Frobisher) got "The Doctor" gig?

OTOH, Checkov showing up as "Mr. Bester" is an entirely different thing.

Capaldi isn't the"problem" per se, the problem (for me) is that with this choice, Moffat seems to want us to voluntarily RETCON TW:COE ... I can understand the impulse to want to bury and forget "Miracle Day," but "Children of Earth" was certainly a fine addition to the Whoverse.

Then again, Moffat might actually be clever enough to be able to explain how "The Doctor" wound up being a sweaty, hapless, desperate middle management government type with a human family who got stuck between a rock and a hard place for five days in 2009: Funky Gallifreyian watches and Tessaractical Androidish Spaceshipish timey, whimey things et al. wink.gif I'd like to see him try that. biggrin.gif

Edit: Apologies to Mark (A.) Sheppard (aka Crowley, Romo Lampkin et. al) for misspelling his name.
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post #275 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 09:41 AM
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Craig Ferguson said a lot of nice things about Capaldi in his autobiography. Sounds like the two of them were pretty close during the days of their band. As much of a Who devote Craig seems to be he's got to be thrilled.

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post #276 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 10:31 AM
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PS: A brief tour of the inter-webs revealed that I'm not alone in my concerns over the continuity issues that are raised by this choice.

Sure, there's probably a way out, the question is whether the show writers will address it or just expect us to shut up and deal. biggrin.gif

OTOH, I suddenly wonder if Russell T. did something to very nasty to Moffat's cornflakes to inspire this apparent stick-in-the-eye. Time will tell.
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post #277 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

True ...but did any of them play Kirk, Picard, Archer, Spock, Worf, (and no ... Data doesn't count here, those multiples had specific explanations and reasons to exist smile.gif )

How would you feel If "Yeoman Rand" suddenly reappeared as "Janeway?" "Kahn" for "Picard?" ... What would you think if Mark Sheppard (who had roughly the same amount of Whoverse "guest" time as Capaldi/Frobisher) got "The Doctor" gig?

Star Trek is a BAD example... as you will soon see...

The voice of the Enterprise, arguably one of the most recognizable things on the show besides Kirk & Spock... well, she turns up as Nurse Chapel in the original series! Then... in the Menagerie (where they incorporate the "Cage" original pilot into continuity) she turns up again as the Enterprise's previous first in command! But wait, we aren't done... she turns up yet again as Lwaxana Troi, mother to Deanna (ship's counselor)... and yet somehow nobody has a problem that she looks like Nurse Chapel OR that she sounds EXACTLY like the ship's computer.

Diana Muldaur, TNG season 2's Dr Pulaski, arguably a major character for a whole year... she too was on the original series as a completely different character... and I don't remember anyone being confused by that.
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Capaldi isn't the"problem" per se, the problem (for me) is that with this choice, Moffat seems to want us to voluntarily RETCON TW:COE ... I can understand the impulse to want to bury and forget "Miracle Day," but "Children of Earth" was certainly a fine addition to the Whoverse.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Nothing about Capaldi being the new Doctor in any way invalidates anything that happened on Torchwood.

In real life... Natalie Portman and Kiera Knightley were virtually twins... so much so that when they were younger and both in the first new Star Wars movie... their own mothers had trouble telling them apart sometimes. People watching the movie who didn't know the plot and didn't know the casting did not know there were in fact two girls trading off on the role of Amidala at times on screen... and yet the fact remains that these were two unrelated girls in real life who resembled each other quite a bit and yet were two completely different people.

IF you really need an explanation, and it's not like this would ever come up in show, the simplest explanation is that with as many people as exist in the universe... the Doctor is bound to resemble at least one other person at any given time.

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post #278 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 05:38 PM
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post #279 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

How would you feel If "Yeoman Rand" suddenly reappeared as "Janeway?" "Kahn" for "Picard?" ... What would you think if Mark Sheppard (who had roughly the same amount of Whoverse "guest" time as Capaldi/Frobisher) got "The Doctor" gig?

It wouldn't bother me a bit. Having worked in theater and the entertainment industry since I was 16, I've seen too many actors play too many roles to be bothered at all by that. Seeing an actor play multiple roles in the Whoverse doesn't bother me any more than seeing Fred Armisen play 5 or 6 different roles in any given episode of Portlandia. Or seeing a lot of different actors play James Bond over the years without benefit of the "regeneration" excuse.. Or watching a stand in take a lead role in a play one night when the regular actor is sick. I'm totally able to separate the character from the actor playing the role.
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post #280 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 10:07 PM
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It wouldn't bother me a bit. Having worked in theater and the entertainment industry since I was 16, I've seen too many actors play too many roles to be bothered at all by that. Seeing an actor play multiple roles in the Whoverse doesn't bother me any more than seeing Fred Armisen play 5 or 6 different roles in any given episode of Portlandia. Or seeing a lot of different actors play James Bond over the years without benefit of the "regeneration" excuse.. Or watching a stand in take a lead role in a play one night when the regular actor is sick. I'm totally able to separate the character from the actor playing the role.

Then, sir, I submit that you lack even a basic understanding of "nerdom." wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #281 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 10:12 PM
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Star Trek is a BAD example... as you will soon see...

Once again ... did *any* of those actors/voices play Capt(s.) Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Archer? NO ... Negative ... and no, the "body swapping" episode from TOS doesn't count either. wink.gif

It's not about the actor ... it's about the continuity.

PS: Every nerd worth his weight in salt understands Majel Barrett Roddenberry's special relationship to the TrekVerse. You earn negative nerdom points for even thinking about trying that route. biggrin.gif

BTW: Of all the BDs in my (meager) collection the only one that I've watched exactly *one* time is JJ Abrams' "Star Trek." It's been collecting dust ever since ... Scotty getting sucked through "waste" tubes ... really? On the next reboot maybe they might try using somebody that actually liked (and understood) the original series. tongue.gif ... not really a casting issue but ...
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post #282 of 351 Old 08-07-2013, 10:33 PM
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PPS: At this point any real Whovian or general nerdist would be speculating about how to resolve the continuity glitch. They might even be taking Moffat's brief on screen wondering, 'What it might be like if the Doctor were evil,' a bit more seriously. wink.gif They might even be speculating that statement, 'Peter C.'s doctor will be '"not Matt's"' might be a sign of things to come.

But no, here at AVS we have the back of the class types who seem to be content with the "just shut up and deal with it" solution. smile.gif Come on ... a least show a little imagination people!!! biggrin.gif

I can't believe Moffat and the rest of TPTB would make this casting choice without having a specific story and continuity in mind -- that would be completely out of character with everything that's happened since the re-boot. If they did, then maybe it's time to give the TARDIS keys to someone else or (gasp) just admit they're out of ideas and quit on a high note - 50 years is a good run. wink.gif
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post #283 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 04:50 AM
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And don't forget Bernard Cribbins.... companion to Peter Cushing in Daleks - Invasion Earth 2150 AD, and lately Donna Noble's grandfather.

Most Whovians treat the Peter Cushing Dalek movies as separate to the BBC Doctor Who franchise - so that probably doesn't count wink.gif
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post #284 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 05:08 AM
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I can't believe Moffat and the rest of TPTB would make this casting choice without having a specific story and continuity in mind

Seriously? The show solves most problems with a sonic screwdriver or more instances of timey-wimey techobabble than the amount of times Star Trek changed the function of the deflector dish. Smartly constructed and detailed science-fiction it is not. Tying a few plot points together and references over time doesn't change that.
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post #285 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 09:08 AM
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Seriously? The show solves most problems with a sonic screwdriver or more instances of timey-wimey techobabble than the amount of times Star Trek changed the function of the deflector dish. Smartly constructed and detailed science-fiction it is not. Tying a few plot points together and references over time doesn't change that.

You hit on something that has bothered me over the last couple seasons: How did the humble sonic screwdriver become more powerful than a light saber? Nearly every threat leads to Smith waving it around, and without any explaination it stops or at least slows down the attack. I don't remember Davis using it in such a way. Wasn't the basic premise of the show that the Docter is unarmed and his only weapon is his brain? It took clever writing to resolve the conflict before. Now he has the all powerful SS to combat any foe. It seems a little lazy of the writers to make the screwdriver such an all purpose weapon.

I'm expecting to be burnede at the stake for heresy for bringing this up... eek.gif

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post #286 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 09:19 AM
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You hit on something that has bothered me over the last couple seasons: How did the humble sonic screwdriver become more powerful than a light saber? Nearly every threat leads to Smith waving it around, and without any explaination it stops or at least slows down the attack. I don't remember Davis using it in such a way. Wasn't the basic premise of the show that the Docter is unarmed and his only weapon is his brain? It took clever writing to resolve the conflict before. Now he has the all powerful SS to combat any foe. It seems a little lazy of the writers to make the screwdriver such an all purpose weapon.

I'm expecting to be burnede at the stake for heresy for bringing this up... eek.gif

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post #287 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 09:20 AM
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Also we can burn together because MAGIC SCREWDRIVER. smile.gif


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post #288 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 10:26 AM
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Most Whovians treat the Peter Cushing Dalek movies as separate to the BBC Doctor Who franchise - so that probably doesn't count wink.gif

To be brutally honest one of the things that I find most irritating about Who is the Daleks??? ... Again? .... Again? .... Again? Ditto for Cybermen ... at least the Weeping Angels were fresh (for a while,) although, I think the WAs have pretty much run their course with the end of the Ponds.

Resolve the "Time War" already and move on ... Even the Klingons and the Federation have long since made peace. biggrin.gif
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post #289 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 10:40 AM
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Seriously? The show solves most problems with a sonic screwdriver or more instances of timey-wimey techobabble than the amount of times Star Trek changed the function of the deflector dish. Smartly constructed and detailed science-fiction it is not. Tying a few plot points together and references over time doesn't change that.

Part of the issue is pacing (for us Uhmericans,) for the classic series, it always seemed to be 85 minutes of running around in circles and 5 minutes to actually "solve" the problem at hand. Of course, the problem is that most (or at least a lot) of the classic series was originally aired in 30 minute installments and paced accordingly ... Our public (PBS) stations tended to air the program in 90 minute chunks ... sometimes the "story" was resolved in 90 minutes ... sometimes it took longer. "The Aztecs" from the Hartnell special is a perfect example of this time-dilation effect ... excruciatingly glacial pacing when taken in all at once. wink.gif
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post #290 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 10:25 PM
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The show could solve the Capaldi Problem quite easily by having a character say to the Doc "Have we met before? You look very familiar." wink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gifwink.gif (to audience) and the vast majority of viewers would consider that knowing acknowledgement as addressing the issue.

Most of the people I know who watch Who don't even remember he was ever cast before. Most of them don't even pay attention beyond what happens in an episode. It's lightweight family fare with occasional attempts at depth, but even Moffat keeps that to a limit so that it doesn't scare away the UK audience. As long as they crack some jokes or keep things manic he doesn't need to fix all the smaller details.


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post #291 of 351 Old 08-08-2013, 10:31 PM
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You hit on something that has bothered me over the last couple seasons: How did the humble sonic screwdriver become more powerful than a light saber? Nearly every threat leads to Smith waving it around, and without any explaination it stops or at least slows down the attack. I don't remember Davis using it in such a way.

No Davies did it too. Even in the first season Eccleston was waving it around. I can even remember Tennant using it as a weapon in some episodes.

I don't think Moffat and the Screwdriver Solution is entirely his fault, and I would still take a Moffat run season over the horrific slapstick and childish gags of a Davis season.

And we are not the only ones to consider the screwdriver a magical "get out of jail free" card. You can find lots of discussion and articles like this online:

http://whatculture.com/tv/doctor-who-10-most-ridiculous-uses-of-the-sonic-screwdriver.php


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post #292 of 351 Old 08-09-2013, 10:04 AM
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Psst: Apparently the folks at BBC / BBCA finally remembered TW:COE. BBCA is running TW:COE in marathon mode this Sunday @ 2pm EDT ... One hour slots, so I suspect there will be some editing for time. (IIRC, the unedited first run versions ran in 75 min slots.)
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post #293 of 351 Old 08-09-2013, 10:35 AM
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Maybe my memory is spotty, but it seems to me the SS use in the Davis years was more consistant, with at least a token explaination of how it was helping. It wean't the magic wand it is now.I could be wrong though...I also have to say I would take S 3+4 of the reboot over the Moffat years so far. The strange thing about that is Moffat was a major reason for the 3rd and 4th seasons being so good. And I love Sherlock and have a very high opinion of Jekyl so I'm definately a Moffat fan boy.

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post #294 of 351 Old 08-25-2013, 09:32 PM
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The 8th Doctor special airs on Aug 31 @ 9PM ET.

Step right up! See the entire span of the 8th Doctor's tenure in one evening!

I hope they've managed to upconvert it to HD ... the clips that we've seen so far are just turrrable.

PS: I just realized that we never saw the actual regeneration from #8 to "#9." Room for wiggling ....
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post #295 of 351 Old 08-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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You hit on something that has bothered me over the last couple seasons: How did the humble sonic screwdriver become more powerful than a light saber? Nearly every threat leads to Smith waving it around, and without any explaination it stops or at least slows down the attack. I don't remember Davis using it in such a way. Wasn't the basic premise of the show that the Docter is unarmed and his only weapon is his brain? It took clever writing to resolve the conflict before. Now he has the all powerful SS to combat any foe. It seems a little lazy of the writers to make the screwdriver such an all purpose weapon.

I'm expecting to be burnede at the stake for heresy for bringing this up... eek.gif

Way back in the Fifth Doctor's tenure the showrunner, John Nathan Turner, destroyed the Sonic Screwdriver to address this problem.

I don't think it was brought back until the series was revived. They probably can't use the same trick these days. The Doctor probably has a stockpile of spares.
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post #296 of 351 Old 08-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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Way back in the Fifth Doctor's tenure the showrunner, John Nathan Turner, destroyed the Sonic Screwdriver to address this problem.

Yes - I still remember that moment. It was a pretty significant plot development. I loved that story, based around the plague and the Great Fire of London. In some ways K-9 also suffered from similar issues - you could solve problems too easily with them.

It does need to be addressed.
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post #297 of 351 Old 08-26-2013, 05:09 PM
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The sonic screwdriver has become an unsolvable problem.

In the old series it did too much, so they had it destroyed... except that never really made sense because the Doctor (several different incarnations) had re-built new sonic screwdrivers... so why would he not keep re-building something that was so useful?

Over time it has increasingly become too powerful... but in-show it also makes no sense for the Doctor not to have one.

I mean... think... IF you had a cool tool that was useful in lots of situations... why would you not want it? IF you lost it and could get another, you surely would, right?

So they have created a tough monster to kill. It makes the show either too easy to resolve a conflict OR too silly when they invent new "kryptonite" for the sonic not to work on...

They have the same problem with a show about time-travel... where the nagging question is always "why not just go back in time and fix the problem sooner once you learn the fix"... by which I mean, you land on a planet... encounter a problem... take a while to solve the situation... THEN go back in time and sole it earlier now that you know the solution.

BUT, this problem they get around by saying that the Doctor "can't" interfere with his own timeline... so once he integrates himself into a situation, he is linearly stuck in that problem until he solves it... he can't go back in time to an earlier point before he arrived and solve it... though they cheat with this sometimes, it mostly serves to explain why you wouldn't just use your time machine to solve all problems and save all people who ever die.

The sonic isn't a problem so easily solved or explained.

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post #298 of 351 Old 08-26-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post


The sonic isn't a problem so easily solved or explained.

Honestly it doesn't bother me. It's not nearly as annoying or ridiculous as the TrekBabble of the Week. "Adjusting the shield phase, Capt.!" or "Sending out a tachyon burst from the deflector dish!" ... yada, yada, yada ...

BTW. In actual new Who News .... Did you here that the 8th Doctor's Special airs this Saturday, Aug 31 @ 9pm ET? Set your DVRs ... wake the kids and load 'em up with ' Dew!
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post #299 of 351 Old 08-28-2013, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

The sonic screwdriver has become an unsolvable problem.

In the old series it did too much, so they had it destroyed... except that never really made sense because the Doctor (several different incarnations) had re-built new sonic screwdrivers... so why would he not keep re-building something that was so useful?

Over time it has increasingly become too powerful... but in-show it also makes no sense for the Doctor not to have one.

I mean... think... IF you had a cool tool that was useful in lots of situations... why would you not want it? IF you lost it and could get another, you surely would, right?

So they have created a tough monster to kill. It makes the show either too easy to resolve a conflict OR too silly when they invent new "kryptonite" for the sonic not to work on...

They have the same problem with a show about time-travel... where the nagging question is always "why not just go back in time and fix the problem sooner once you learn the fix"... by which I mean, you land on a planet... encounter a problem... take a while to solve the situation... THEN go back in time and sole it earlier now that you know the solution.

BUT, this problem they get around by saying that the Doctor "can't" interfere with his own timeline... so once he integrates himself into a situation, he is linearly stuck in that problem until he solves it... he can't go back in time to an earlier point before he arrived and solve it... though they cheat with this sometimes, it mostly serves to explain why you wouldn't just use your time machine to solve all problems and save all people who ever die.

The sonic isn't a problem so easily solved or explained.

See the entry on the Blinovitch Limitation Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinovitch_Limitation_Effect

Luke

Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #300 of 351 Old 11-24-2013, 09:09 AM
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The 50th anniversary episode "The Day of the Doctor" was AMAZING! Seeing Tom Baker at the end was really the icing on the cake too. smile.gif
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