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post #991 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

When Stan was watching the Echo code streaming across the monitor I thought it was implied that he was using the camera to record it all.

Yep that makes sense then I wonder what he delivered to the drop. Was it a recording of what he captured on the screen.
They could certainly slow the recording down and get the code.

With Stan sitting outside the embassy he certainly does not trust them.
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post #992 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

Yep that makes sense then I wonder what he delivered to the drop. Was it a recording of what he captured on the screen.
They could certainly slow the recording down and get the code.

With Stan sitting outside the embassy he certainly does not trust them.

I thought he was going to intercept the car and free Nina. Or jump off the bridge earlier. His life is in shambles right now. His wife is gone, his mistress is going to be executed and he's a traitor.
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post #993 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 07:21 AM
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My father in law, a Korean War vet stopped watching due to that feeling. He said they made the Amercians look stupid every week.

I understand his sentiment. I generally don't like watching Vietnam War movies either but from the opposite perspective. Being Asian, I've experienced my share of insults and teasing and sitting through a movie where people that look like me are called gooks and slant eyes and portrayed as inhuman devils is not my cup of tea.
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post #994 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 07:22 AM
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When Paige had her line about the greater good, you knew it was going somewhere. Then the reveal about Jared confirmed where that was going. The bleed out scene was a little too "television".

Hard to say about Stan. The fact that the note was typed instead of written makes it suspect who typed it. Was he sitting outside the embassy because he knew they broke their promise after delivering Echo, or because he wanted one last look at here knowing where his choice to not give them Echo was sending her? Clearly he was conflicted about what to do with the recording. I believe he didn't give them Echo because if he did and they still sent Nina back to Russia to be executed then they know that would put him on the war path against them.
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post #995 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 07:50 AM
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Good episode but, Talk about suspending belief:

5 or 6 shows ago Elizabeth kicks a trained Male Mossad Officer's a**. The Mossad Officers female partner fights to a draw with Phillip
Last night Elizabeth overcome's an active duty Navy Seal while hand-cuffed behind her back... The whole scene was poorly done, imo.
Maybe I have to re-watch it. Let's hope Stan has a plan.... Always good to see Margo back..
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post #996 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray Lucca View Post

Good episode but, Talk about suspending belief:

5 or 6 shows ago Elizabeth kicks a trained Male Mossad Officer's a**. The Mossad Officers female partner fights to a draw with Phillip
Last night Elizabeth overcome's an active duty Navy Seal while hand-cuffed behind her back... The whole scene was poorly done, imo.
Maybe I have to re-watch it. Let's hope Stan has a plan.... Always good to see Margo back..

I could be wrong but did Jared shoot Larrick, thereby making it easier for Elizabeth to subdue him?

At first I thought they went too far with the Jared storyline. Seemed like an over-the-top reveal. But thinking about it more, in terms of how the KGB could really use these kids, I bought into it for the most part.

But yes, I think Jared's confession was a bit over wrought.
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post #997 of 1082 Old 05-22-2014, 08:44 PM
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I mostly liked the episode but thought Jared's tale about the death of his parents and sister came perilously close to being a shark jumping moment. Fortunately, I thought everything else was well done, even the Centre's directive to bring its agents' children into the spy game. Given Elizabeth's positive reaction to the scheme this new development has a lot of dramatic possibilities.

I loved the ambiguous way Nina's romance with Stan (maybe) came to an end. I can't believe that Nina is really going to be sent back to Russia. The young actress who plays Nina is both an elegant beauty and a terrific actress. Surely the showrunners see that too, so why would they write her, of all people, out of the show? We simply don't know whether Stan really did sell out and was betrayed or whether he came to his senses and finally told the Resident that it was no dice.

Anybody who thinks the The Americans has portrayed the Soviets as somehow heroic must have watched a different show than the one I saw.
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post #998 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 12:02 AM
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Of course Stan recorded the code with a movie camera. But he couldn't betray his country. So he did type that note. And he watched Nina driven away with sadness but without the outrage he would have exhibited if he had given them the code. So let's not overcomplicate this. The writers didn't want to make Stan a traitor for next season. The scene where her Russian boyfriend and Stan watched her being taken away was good writing, good plotting, very poignant.

Personally I thought Jared's confession was a pretty clever twist. And yes, Ray Lucca, Jared did shoot Larrick. Thought that was obvious. It's true that our credulity had to be strained a bit for our Russian friends to escape, but overall it was a very strong, very tense finale. One of my favorite shows in this time of many brilliant dramatic programs.
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post #999 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cwilson View Post

Of course Stan recorded the code with a movie camera. But he couldn't betray his country. So he did type that note. And he watched Nina driven away with sadness but without the outrage he would have exhibited if he had given them the code. So let's not overcomplicate this. The writers didn't want to make Stan a traitor for next season. The scene where her Russian boyfriend and Stan watched her being taken away was good writing, good plotting, very poignant.

That's exactly how I saw it. In the end, Stan chose country over love. Which will make him even more messed up and depressed next year. tongue.gif
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Originally Posted by "cwilson 
Personally I thought Jared's confession was a pretty clever twist. And yes, Ray Lucca, Jared did shoot Larrick. Thought that was obvious. It's true that our credulity had to be strained a bit for our Russian friends to escape, but overall it was a very strong, very tense finale. One of my favorite shows in this time of many brilliant dramatic programs.

It was a twist, all right. I guess it had to end that way. Claudia made one mention of her forbidden fling which served two purposes - it humanized her to a degree we didn't see coming, and it was a red herring that kept us guessing as to the identity of the killer. In the end, they really couldn't have introduced a brand new character we hadn't seen all season just to tie up that loose end. That would have been really lazy writing.

OTOH, Jerrod's total immersion into the spy game, to the extent that he would murder his whole family including little sister, was a bit unbelievable to me. I guess they implied that Karen had seduced him while recruiting him, thereby playing on teenage hormones to help win him over to the cause. In retrospect, his ready and willing acquiescence to exfiltration is more easily explained with that knowledge.

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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Anybody who thinks the The Americans has portrayed the Soviets as somehow heroic must have watched a different show than the one I saw.

People all to often see what they want to see. They're led where their preconceptions take them. They often don't like to deal with complexity, preferring to keep things clean, simple, and neatly ordered in their minds. They're not going to be amenable to a show with this level of thought and nuance.
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post #1000 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 07:07 AM
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They've certainly set up several interesting scenarios for next season. Phil and Liz are going to be on opposite sides with regard to recruiting Paige to the cause, leading to more strains in their marriage. Phil now has to worry about his other wife shooting him if she learns the truth. He'd be wise to cut that cord. And the entire Directorate Six cell has been demolished by Larrick with several key members killed, including their new handler, the communications guy, and the operator of the safe house. Stan will be even more depressed and possibly a vengeful loose cannon, a la Larrick.

Will Claudia come back as their regular handler? Unfortunately, 'The Millers' has an inexplicable popularity so that's doubtful.
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post #1001 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 10:59 AM
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I admit the reveal was done clumsily, but Jarod's reaction to finding out his parents had been lying to him his whole life was believable, I think. The reality he's always known had been destroyed, and even if he accepted it had been done for a noble cause (which is doubtful since he had been raised with American ideals), he couldn't help feeling betrayed and angry with his parents. And then, with an entirely new belief structure thrust upon him by his handler its no wonder he had a complete mental breakdown that led to the horror of his actions. I thought when Phillip looked at Page at the end you could see in his eyes he was fearful she might react in the same way if she found out the truth. Both Jarod and Page are at the vulnerable age when they need something to believe in, a cause they can commit their soul to. Page found religion, Jarod had the Soviet view forced on him. Both gave themselves full heartedly to their new beliefs.

What is really interesting is the subtle change in the way the show is dealing with the two sides in this battle. With his life in shambles, and desperately in love with Nina, Stan still could not betray his country and kept his honor even if he lost everything else. Even Larrek can be seen as noble, sacrificing his career and life to revenge those he called his brothers. While on the other side we are shown how the Soviet leaders see their operatives as pawns in the grand scheme, treating them as mere cogs in the machine without any thought of the human consequences of what they expect them to do. Family, honor, even basic humanity, are all expected to be sacrificed for the cause. Elizabeth, always the more idealistic one, thinks Page will embrace the Soviet way much like she committed herself to Christianity. Phillip has his doubts because he has begun to see americans as human as himself and not merely the enemy. Its a conflict not only between them but also within themselves.

The show started by showing both sides as basically the same, with flaws and virtues among those who served their counties. It took pains not to classify one side as good or the other bad. It has maintained that basic humanity of both the Soviet and Americans involved, but now has begun to show the basic differences in their belief systems. They aren't offering any conclusions on which is better, but its becoming increasingly clear which side is more in touch with basic humanity. Its a complex and fearless way to portray the Cold War, and makes The Americans one of the greatest shows ever on tv. IMO, anyways.

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post #1002 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

OTOH, Jerrod's total immersion into the spy game, to the extent that he would murder his whole family including little sister, was a bit unbelievable to me. I guess they implied that Karen had seduced him while recruiting him, thereby playing on teenage hormones to help win him over to the cause. In retrospect, his ready and willing acquiescence to exfiltration is more easily explained with that knowledge.

I had a really hard time with this too, especially since they didn't have time to explain it very well with his dying words. I can only surmise that he was a messed up kid from the get-go, and Kate just pulled his trigger (so to speak).
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post #1003 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

While on the other side we are shown how the Soviet leaders see their operatives as pawns in the grand scheme, treating them as mere cogs in the machine without any thought of the human consequences of what they expect them to do. Family, honor, even basic humanity, are all expected to be sacrificed for the cause.

Not all of them (maybe at The Centre). Arkady, the Rezident, has shown on several occasions he values the lives and contributions of the operatives in the Directorate. And Oleg as well. Both are well-painted portraits of complex people - examples of how this show avoids caricatures and easy stereotypes.
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post #1004 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cwilson View Post

Of course Stan recorded the code with a movie camera. But he couldn't betray his country. So he did type that note. And he watched Nina driven away with sadness but without the outrage he would have exhibited if he had given them the code. So let's not overcomplicate this. The writers didn't want to make Stan a traitor for next season. The scene where her Russian boyfriend and Stan watched her being taken away was good writing, good plotting, very poignant.

That's a good point. You have convinced me that the note the Resident gave to Nina really did come from Stan. Stan is screwed up but not to the extent he would betray his country, his love for Nina notwithstanding.
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post #1005 of 1082 Old 05-23-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

OTOH, Jerrod's total immersion into the spy game, to the extent that he would murder his whole family including little sister, was a bit unbelievable to me. I guess they implied that Karen Kate had seduced him while recruiting him, thereby playing on teenage hormones to help win him over to the cause. In retrospect, his ready and willing acquiescence to exfiltration is more easily explained with that knowledge.

It sheds light on some other peculiarities from earlier in the season, too. Philip and Elizabeth were shocked that Kate was Claudia's replacement, because she seemed far too young to be qualified for the position. It appears the Centre chose someone so young for Jared's sake, and I expect she and Nina shared some of the same tactics in turning their marks towards "the cause".

I'm glad they've decided to raise the stakes for Paige and potentially make her a more important player. We now have a new source of contention between Philip and Elizabeth, too.

Is it time for season 3 yet? smile.gif
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post #1006 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 09:23 AM
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Loved the finale. I agree about the Jarod incident, but that was a small bump. It did seem weird how Claudia said she wouldn't have approved of Jarod, but then said they had no choice with Paige.

I am curious if Nina is done or if Stan has a plan to save her. Also, I wonder if she really thought Stan would save her. If so, would she have left with him or hung him out to dry?

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post #1007 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 09:44 AM
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Loved the finale. I agree about the Jarod incident, but that was a small bump. It did seem weird how Claudia said she wouldn't have approved of Jarod, but then said they had no choice with Paige.

I thought the same thing. The two positions didn't seem complementary. Or, maybe she didn't approve of the way it was done with Jarrod, i.e. "honey pot" seduction of a minor.
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post #1008 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

I thought the same thing. The two positions didn't seem complementary. Or, maybe she didn't approve of the way it was done with Jarrod, i.e. "honey pot" seduction of a minor.
I think it was the "doing it without consent" thing.

I think she was just warning them that the same thing would happen to them and there was nothing she could do to stop it.
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post #1009 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 11:13 AM
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I think it was the "doing it without consent" thing.

I think she was just warning them that the same thing would happen to them and there was nothing she could do to stop it.

I dunno. Claudia seemed to be pretty enthusiastic about the idea of young super-spies sourced from Russian stock, even asked the Jennings if they were really committed to the cause and, if so, how could they refuse?
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post #1010 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Not all of them (maybe at The Centre). Arkady, the Rezident, has shown on several occasions he values the lives and contributions of the operatives in the Directorate. And Oleg as well. Both are well-painted portraits of complex people - examples of how this show avoids caricatures and easy stereotypes.

Just to clarify, I was thinking of them as pawns too, just higher up in the food chain. One of the most remarkable things about this show is how nobody is portrayed as a monster. Everyone we get to know is shown to be human and trying to do the right thing.by their own moral code. All are suffering from the basic conflict of personal responsibility versus their desire to serve their country, the greater good so to speak. Probably even those in Moscow who thought it a good idea to recruit the children were acting with good intentions, and are fundamentally decent human beings. It seems to be the nature of the spy game to have to accept "the end justifies the means" as a moral code, and everyone involved in it struggles with that. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the ending of the season seems to imply that there is a line that the American side won't cross, So far at least, we haven't been shown the Soviet side has such a line.

One more point. Wanting to recruit Jarod or Page isn't the bad thing. Its trying to do it without the parents knowledge or permission that led to the horror, I think.
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post #1011 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 10:14 PM
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Minor detail I found amusing - and may come into play later.

Even in Stan's dream Martha was stealing files - he must know.
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post #1012 of 1082 Old 05-24-2014, 10:54 PM
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That's a good point! I noticed she was stealing files when I thought the sequence was really happening, but then I forgot about it after he woke up. Was that a goof, or is he going to confront her next season? My guess would be that somebody will notice the files he stole, and he will use Martha as a scapegoat to save himself.
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post #1013 of 1082 Old 05-25-2014, 12:23 AM
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Interesting observation. I didn't think it was suspicious because it is part of her job to retrieve files from the robot and she was the one to complain to him about all the sensitive documents being left on the robot.

I wonder what Paige's reaction if she's told that her parents are Russian spies. She not overly patriotic and she might be impressed that they sacrifice for the greater good. Or she might resent that she is the one who has been suffering for the sacrifice.
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post #1014 of 1082 Old 05-25-2014, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post

Interesting observation. I didn't think it was suspicious because it is part of her job to retrieve files from the robot and she was the one to complain to him about all the sensitive documents being left on the robot.

I wonder what Paige's reaction if she's told that her parents are Russian spies. She not overly patriotic and she might be impressed that they sacrifice for the greater good. Or she might resent that she is the one who has been suffering for the sacrifice.

Paige seems to be a morally principled young lady. I'm not sure she would rationalize the horror of what they do as being for the greater good. A bit too much to process for her age. However, she'd be relieved to know her parents aren't having affairs, which has been her naive guess until now.

And if it does come to light, I think the apparent split in her parents' view on this matter would simply cause further stress on her. For this to work, Phillip and Elizabeth would need to be unified and welcoming/comforting. Such a risk though. An adverse reaction by Paige and...what? The Centre goes after Paige to prevent her from blowing the whistle, and they lose Phillip and Elizabeth, too, in the process.
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post #1015 of 1082 Old 05-25-2014, 09:13 AM
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This is a wonderful idea for future storylines, but fraught with peril for the writers. There's a really fine line they have to walk with this one. What then to they do about Henry? Can they tell Paige but not tell him? How long could that go on?

I think both kids are good actors, but the range they would have to show if this plotline goes forward is considerable.
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post #1016 of 1082 Old 05-25-2014, 01:40 PM
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watching season one on prime....very good show...acurrate history. Can't wait for season two soon when season 3 starts next year....
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post #1017 of 1082 Old 05-26-2014, 06:19 AM
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From Tradecraft to Sexpionage, Cold War K.G.B. and U.S. Spies Concur: The Americans Actually Happened


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post #1018 of 1082 Old 05-26-2014, 08:08 AM
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^^^ Wow! Who knew? Super-duper cool article. Thanks! smile.gif
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post #1019 of 1082 Old 05-26-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Berk32 View Post

Minor detail I found amusing - and may come into play later.

Even in Stan's dream Martha was stealing files - he must know.
I figured that was a red herring to throw us off from the fact that it was a dream. Don't forget, in his dream, he wasn't looking when she did it, so he still didn't see her.
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post #1020 of 1082 Old 05-26-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I figured that was a red herring to throw us off from the fact that it was a dream. Don't forget, in his dream, he wasn't looking when she did it, so he still didn't see her.

I think that's because consciously he doesn't believe it, and his subconscious is trying to tell him something. There have been a few times he's looked at Martha at work like he suspected something was wrong and then rejected the idea.

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