'The Americans' on FX HD - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 2192 Old 03-29-2016, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
This is how I read the scene. Gabriel wouldn't let her see her mother, and when Philip arranged a trip anyway, Gabriel was upset that she put her family ahead of her mission.

@ RayGuy

........

Gabriel painted a nice picture of an agent holding her mother's hand on her death bed, but perhaps what Elizabeth was thinking about was an agent smothering her mother with a pillow.
This is an interesting angle and one that could develop into something big like Elizabeth turning against her country and defect.
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post #1532 of 2192 Old 03-29-2016, 10:19 AM
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^^^
The Americans is in the same boat Vinyl is, it has a particular audience where I really don't care who say they don't like it. Enjoy the show and forget what others say like me.
This is a much better show than vinyl and I enjoy watching vinyl although it is more about seeing the vintage equipment and occassional rock "cameos."

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post #1533 of 2192 Old 03-29-2016, 05:35 PM
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@ Davidt1

I highly doubt that. Elizabeth's distrust lies with Gabriel, not her country. She will never stray from her mission. Philip has the capability to change sides (or at least quit his spy work, as he's suggested they should do more than once), but Elizabeth knows nothing else.
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post #1534 of 2192 Old 03-29-2016, 06:46 PM
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Aleron Ives -

I don't know how you could be so confident about Elizabeth remaining steadfast. You may well turn out to be right in the end. But I'm seeing some erosions that could grow into something significant so I don't think your confidence is warranted. While she has remained strong about her cause, the human elements of maintaining these political and patriotic convictions have been slowly eroding. Remember, first she had the loss of her mentor and main father figure, the Colonel.

Then she never took to her handler, "Granny", who at best, she merely tolerated. And what used to be a solid bond and trust with Gabriel, we now have her being subtly ambivalent or suspicious about Gabriels, "computer for the kids" gift. And further suspicion about Gabriel's attempt at providing comfort regarding her mother's death. We also have Elizabeth's dream about Paige reacting in horror to the Pastor's death along with Elizabeth's semi-officially sanctioned rapist showing up. It appears that things may be changing within her. She may also be beginning to see that Paige might not be a candidate for their spy life, after all. "I'm not a liar, Mom!". And if "The Center" keeps pushing in that direction, I could see this as another motivator in Elizabeth's continued disconnection from her cause, with her motherly instincts coming back to the forefront and taking priority.

She would still love her country and even maintain a belief in the superiority of communism. But her lack of trust in her government and fear of how this may negatively impact her family may prove to be the incentive for her to walk away.

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post #1535 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 03:24 AM
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My guess is that Elizabeth will die in the end and as a true believer, she won't turn.If anyone turns that would be Philip, and he might gives her up, just to be with his children.

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post #1536 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 06:19 AM
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Put simply, at this stage, Philip's overriding priority is the well-being and happiness of his children i.e. Paige. I think his continued EST attendance shows that he is not entirely happy with himself - it's not just about whatever trauma he may have suffered from killing the bully from his childhood, but everything he's had to do as a spy has exacted an emotional toll. He doesn't want that life for his daughter.

Elizabeth, on the other hand, is much more single-minded, and has a higher tolerance for "spycraft" - she has the ability to disassociate her actions as a spy and rationalize them as being for the greater good. Also, she hasn't experienced the same type of long-term interactions on her assignments that Phillip has (the death of Annelise, recruiting Kimmy, relationship with Martha), all of which have really chipped away at his humanity in a much larger degree. Sure, Elizabeth might have softened somewhat, but when all the chips are down, I feel that she will be more inclined to choose her country over her family.
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post #1537 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 06:43 AM
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My guess is that Elizabeth will die in the end and as a true believer, she won't turn.If anyone turns that would be Philip, and he might gives her up, just to be with his children.
I agree, and it wouldn't be crazy to think that Philip could be the one to kill Elizabeth to protect his kids.

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post #1538 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 08:16 AM
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I agree, and it wouldn't be crazy to think that Philip could be the one to kill Elizabeth to protect his kids.
I have a feeling that is how the series ends
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post #1539 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 09:30 AM
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I want to see a happy ending here. And defection for both of them is the only way. Philip was ready to defect from day one. Elizabeth is holding him back. A betrayal from the people they work for would make her change her mind. There is a problem with a defection scenario though -- they killed an FBI agent. In real life, this is something that's neither forgotten nor forgiven -- if it can be proven that they did it.
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post #1540 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 11:47 AM
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I have a feeling that is how the series ends
Did I miss something? Is there an end in site?

The son, who is spending a lot of time with Stan, may inadvertently reveal something about his parents. Other than that, not sure why the relationship.
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post #1541 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 12:01 PM
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I think the FX president said they will get as long as the show runners want to wrap up the show?

So they're not as under much pressure for ratings and you'd hope they wouldn't resort to overly dramatic show business conventions.

This podcast with the show runners of The Americans and Jack Barsky, who was a real life "illegal" spy for the KGB indicates that the illegals didn't kill. Barsky himself said he never got weapons training, only self-defense, and he never killed:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/...periences.html


It would be more historically accurate if Philip and Elizabeth just quit or the spying just petered away. Although Barsky was an illegal after the fall of the Berlin Wall, he basically told his handlers that he had AIDS and they let him walk away, with a nice tidy sum of money to boot.

Of course it's still early but it would be nice if they reached the Glasnost/Perestroika era. Andropov, who was referenced in one episode, was a KGB guy I believe, but he was only in power for a few years. Then it wasn't long before Gorbachev got into power and it was the beginning of the end of the USSR.

More than the action, it would be interesting to see how the characters would respond to these huge historic changes. You'd think Philip would like what Gorbachev did while true believer Elizabeth wouldn't. Of course them arguing about politics back in the homeland may not make for compelling television but if they're not under huge pressure for ratings, maybe it's worth exploring other ideas.

At first the gimmick was the two characters doing disguises and acting out different roles but that hasn't netted them big ratings. Maybe the sweep of these huge historic changes being reflected in the characters can't do any worse.
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post #1542 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 12:28 PM
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Did I miss something? Is there an end in site?
There are plans for one or two more seasons, and the showrunners haven't decided how it's going to end yet, but they are already trying to pick and ending from a limited set of scenarios. That's all we know from the interview posted around the time of the first episode of the season.
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post #1543 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 12:38 PM
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But the really important question to ask is... will we ever see Nina nude again?
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post #1544 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 12:53 PM
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Yeah I've heard 5 seasons max, and the ratings are decline too.
There can't be happy ending here, this family is between a rock and a hard place.
Also if one thinks about it they are puppets not masterminds, they only know their handler, and no one above him for that reason if they were captured. Their real knowledge is limited about any current missions and future ones. But if there was a happy ending the show would have lose it's true identity.

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post #1545 of 2192 Old 03-30-2016, 12:56 PM
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The 2 show runners did a podcast with Andy Greenwald. They know they have 1 more season, maybe 2 to tell the story. The guy that runs FX has promised them that no matter what the ratings are. He wants to see them finish the story. As of the podcast 2 weeks ago they were already working on story for season 5.
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post #1546 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post
I want to see a happy ending here. And defection for both of them is the only way. Philip was ready to defect from day one. Elizabeth is holding him back.
This was the first episode in which it appeared the roles were reversed. Philip wanted to go back to Russia and leave everything, but Elizabeth started to sound like she wanted to stay at any cost.

A solid character episode tonight full of subtle manipulations and suspicion, but I thought things really picked up when the potential contamination occurred. And then it ended just as I was enjoying it. I always find it interesting to see how other operatives work and the virologist is something different and unique.


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post #1547 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 05:34 AM
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Paige will give the go ahead to take care of Pastor Tim and his wife, then she'll be all in.
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post #1548 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 07:16 AM
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Paige will give the go ahead to take care of Pastor Tim and his wife, then she'll be all in.
or Paige takes matters into her own hands and takes care of them to save the family. Of course leaving a mess for Elizabeth and Philip to clean up.
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post #1549 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 11:12 AM
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I guess the plan to whack Tim and Alice is still in motion. Problem is the Jennings can not go to Epcot or go home. And the guy who can call it off is either dead or dying. Good luck trying to fool Paige with this one.

It's still entirely possible that Tim is KGB.
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post #1550 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 08:03 PM
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This was the first episode in which it appeared the roles were reversed. Philip wanted to go back to Russia and leave everything, but Elizabeth started to sound like she wanted to stay at any cost.
I don't think it's so much that Philip wants to leave his life in the US. It's just that when it comes down to it, he would rather sacrifice everything he and Elizabeth have built if it means getting to keep his daughter. He knows that if the hit on Pastor Tim goes through, Paige will never look at her parents the same way, and he puts his children ahead of his home, his "job", the comforts of living in the US, and even his mission. Elizabeth always puts the mission above everything and doesn't understand that the move to preserve their cover is going to cost her her daughter. Philip gets it and has decided that the cost is too high.

I was kind of wondering if Paige was going to OK the hit on Pastor Tim as some sort of initiation, though. It seems like her visit with Pastor Tim brought her to the point where she knows that if the situation gets any further out of control, her parents will be in serious trouble, and she's starting to consider what it would take to fix the situation.

Now that Philip and Elizabeth are stuck in the apartment with presumably no way to call off the hit or use the trip to provide plausible deniability for their involvement with it, next week's episode could go in any direction.
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post #1551 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 09:11 PM
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The scientist provides much needed humor for the show. The scene where he ran but got stopped and spat on was just hilarious. Next episode will be interesting. Now that Stan is onto Martha, which one of them will get killed off first? Or will Stan turn Martha to work against the Jennings? I can't see Stan getting killed because he told a fellow agent about his suspicion of Martha. If something happens to him, that agent will start asking question.
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post #1552 of 2192 Old 03-31-2016, 11:39 PM
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The scientist provides much needed humor for the show. The scene where he ran but got stopped and spat on was just hilarious.
I actually laughed out loud when he called Phillip an a-hole....
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post #1553 of 2192 Old 04-01-2016, 12:05 AM
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Television and the movies make lifting fingerprints a whole lot easier than it really is. In fact, unless Philip had touched something smooth and shiny on the transit guard's uniform there would be no prints to lift. There would be no physical evidence to connect him to the crime.
In theory, they could have used cyanoacrylate to bring out potential prints, but it would be very difficult to get a proper one from the neck of the victim due to all the skin stretching, not to mention the guy would likely be perspiring under the stress of being choked. If his coat was leather or nylon, they might find a proper print there with the above method, but it would still depend on Phillip's prints being in the system - which they likely aren't.

As far as DNA profiling, that didn't even start until 1985, so there would be no chance he could ever be matched since there was no system at the time. Further, the sources of viable DNA were pretty limited and really required obvious sources like bodily fluids since hair and skin were a whole lot less reliable then. Even then, they could only compare samples if they actually thought Philip was a suspect and took a comparative sample. He wouldn't be in the system since there was no system to be in.

The fact that this show takes place (for this season) during early 1983 (based on the dialog that indicated EPCOT opened about 6 months earlier) makes it more plausible that the stuff that happens could happen. It's the same reason so many horror movies from the 70's and 80's couldn't happen today: we have way more technology at our disposal to protect us and help us get help. You could call the police instead of being literally cut off when the killer disables the phone lines. You'd have text messaging and even track someones location with an app on a phone. Heck, they could just check Gabriel's call history to know who to contact to call off the hit while they were indisposed.

Plus, that bus scene would have been easy to solve these days since so many buses have on board cameras that would have caught Phillip in the act. DNA wouldn't even be necessary. On the other hand, that girl would probably be doubly distracted: by both music and texting on her phone...so, some things would be easier...
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post #1554 of 2192 Old 04-01-2016, 07:57 PM
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Or will Stan turn Martha to work against the Jennings?
That would actually be awesome if Martha was working with Stan to hunt the Jennings while also working with Philip to undermine the FBI. It could be quite an interesting scene when everybody finds out who was working with and against whom.
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post #1555 of 2192 Old 04-01-2016, 08:14 PM
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That would actually be awesome if Martha was working with Stan to hunt the Jennings while also working with Philip to undermine the FBI. It could be quite an interesting scene when everybody finds out who was working with and against whom.
Especially with Stan also working wth Oleg to rescue the double agent who is working wth the scientist the Jennings' helped kidnap and is also secretly working to help.


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post #1556 of 2192 Old 04-02-2016, 06:00 AM
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Ah, what a tangled web they weave! This show is so much fun.
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post #1557 of 2192 Old 04-02-2016, 08:47 AM
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Was there any real purpose to Beaman's ex coming over the Jennings' and talking to Philip? Seems like this may tie to something in a future episode.

David M.
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post #1558 of 2192 Old 04-02-2016, 09:08 AM
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Was there any real purpose to Beaman's ex coming over the Jennings' and talking to Philip? Seems like this may tie to something in a future episode.
She's crushing on him. Which is why she's probably not going to try to help diffuse the situation with Stan and Philip by telling Stan it's nothing. So his suspicion that he's being cuckolded will grow, along with his suspicion of Martha. When those two worlds collide....
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post #1559 of 2192 Old 04-02-2016, 09:23 AM
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So her boyfriend is history? Did they show that or do we just infer that?

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post #1560 of 2192 Old 04-02-2016, 09:26 AM
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It does seem to me that Philip may be able to change Sandra's opinion of Stan, which is of paramount importance as the last thing he and Elizabeth want is an angry top FBI guy constantly keeping tabs on them.

The situation with Martha is sad. Every possible scenario looks bad for her right now.
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