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Old 05-08-2016, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
September 1, 1983

Good guess; perhaps a reaction from the Mary Kay rep will be portrayed.


Oh, that could be interesting.

Elizabeth might pass it off in her own mind as merely a tragic mistake with no nefarious intention by the Russians. Or she might subscribe to the idea that the USA intentionally downed the plane and blamed the Russians to gain some sort of strategic advantage.


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Old 05-08-2016, 12:32 PM
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Oh, that could be interesting.

Elizabeth might pass it off in her own mind as merely a tragic mistake with no nefarious intention by the Russians. Or she might subscribe to the idea that the USA intentionally downed the plane and blamed the Russians to gain some sort of strategic advantage.
Tangled webs...

Had the sense during the last ep they were winding down for the season; read the synopsis and glad it wasn't the finale, but we're close. The show could continue for several more seasons and remain interesting. So much material to work with and more relevant now than when it first aired.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:46 PM
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5 more episodes to go for this season. When looking that up, discovered that Matthew Rhys (actor who portrays Philip) directed this last episode.


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Old 05-08-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
5 more episodes to go for this season. When looking that up, discovered that Matthew Rhys (actor who portrays Philip) directed this last episode.
Yeah, we noticed that in the title credits. Usually, when a lead actor directs an episode of his show, there aren't a lot of scenes & lines with his character in that episode. Makes sense; he's got a lot on his plate that week taking care of the other actors and everything else a director has to keep up with.

But this past episode had a lot of Phillip in it. Some very tough scenes, acting-wise. Rhys must have been the hardest workin' man in show business that week.
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Old 05-08-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
5 more episodes to go for this season. When looking that up, discovered that Matthew Rhys (actor who portrays Philip) directed this last episode.
5 more to go, that's great. Interesting the shows I follow rotate directors among eps. Hope Donovan begins soon after; lucky to have an interest in even one show, recently there's 3-4.

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Old 05-08-2016, 01:14 PM
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Critics are raving about the time jump this week. I thought it was a lame way to dig the characters out of their situation.
Then your beef is with the writers having Gabriel make the determination that Philip and Elizabeth needed a break, and not the break itself. Because the jump-ahead was inevitable after that as there wouldn't have been much story to cover during this "break" period. Unless you would have wanted more driveway hockey game scenes, along with family pizza nights and travel agency shop talk.

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Up until that moment I thought the emotional death spiral was excellent but not complete. There was far more they could have done to show their work breaking down and also more drama they could have written based on it.
Totally disagree. "not complete"? I'm not sure how much further they could have taken their mutual spiral, especially Philips, without either getting them caught or one of them killed or captured.

Then again, I'm not in your head so maybe you've got some good plot development ideas all fleshed out that could make it work in a way you would have preferred. Maybe time to try your hand at some fan fiction.



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Old 05-08-2016, 01:23 PM
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5 more to go, that's great. Interesting the shows I follow rotate directors among eps. Hope Donovan begins soon after; lucky to have an interest in even one show, recently there's 3-4.
The rotating directors thing is very common, I think. More the norm than the exception, actually. Same with them rotating episodic writers.

I've also noticed that it's quite common for a lead actor to get a chance to sit in the directors seat after a show has been on for a while.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:22 AM
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The rotating directors thing is very common, I think. More the norm than the exception, actually. Same with them rotating episodic writers.

I've also noticed that it's quite common for a lead actor to get a chance to sit in the directors seat after a show has been on for a while.
It is a way to stuff their paycheck. producer credit is another scheme.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:31 AM
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It is a way to stuff their paycheck. producer credit is another scheme.
I'm not sure that's it (stars are already paid very well) as much as the star has the clout to be granted the chance to do it by the studio or network. Some of these guys understand that they will need to transition into some other aspect of the business once their leading-man days are behind them. They may have a genuine desire to direct some day.

I often see the names of actors pop up as directors down the line. Often, they got their start when they were starring in their own series and got to direct an episode or two. Johnathan Frakes (Star Trek: TNG) and Ken Olin (Thirtysomething) come immediately to mind.
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:24 PM
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Critics are raving about the time jump this week. I thought it was a lame way to dig the characters out of their situation.

Up until that moment I thought the emotional death spiral was excellent but not complete. There was far more they could have done to show their work breaking down and also more drama they could have written based on it.
I am concerned that Martha got on that plane at all.

It is beyond believable to me that she would have gotten on that plane to Cuba. Even though it would be a huge price to pay to risk staying in the US in hiding, she didn't enter the marriage with the intent to knowingly spy for the Soviets.

It seems more likely to have returned to the office to face the music or hide in the US somewhere on the Soviet's arrangements especially because she lacked the conviction of boarding the plane without Clark lacking the ideological conviction of the USSR, the KGB and Communism. This would have relocating to Moscow particularly more difficult than what appeared on the show.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:17 AM
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I half expected her to say, "Clark, Philip, or whatever your name is, if any part of our relationship was real, then please shoot me so I don't have to live out the rest of my days in misery."
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:01 AM
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I am concerned that Martha got on that plane at all.

It is beyond believable to me that she would have gotten on that plane to Cuba. Even though it would be a huge price to pay to risk staying in the US in hiding, she didn't enter the marriage with the intent to knowingly spy for the Soviets.

It seems more likely to have returned to the office to face the music or hide in the US somewhere on the Soviet's arrangements especially because she lacked the conviction of boarding the plane without Clark lacking the ideological conviction of the USSR, the KGB and Communism. This would have relocating to Moscow particularly more difficult than what appeared on the show.
You have a lot of faith in the federal justice system.

Anything that has Congress afraid is going to be hard to get treated fairly on. Look at how many actors and directors lost their entire livelihoods just because they wouldn't name any names during the McCarthy hearings - and how many lost their careers because (rightly or wrongly) someone else did. You were essentially guilty - forget the proven innocent part.

The 60's through the late 80's was no joke when it came to Communism. Any hint that you might by sympathetic to Communist ideals spelled doom for you.

Of course, we've moved on from that sort of thing. It's not like we use national security as an excuse to lock people up for years without charging them with a crime or condemning people based on their nationality anymore...that only happens elsewhere....doesn't it?

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Old 05-10-2016, 03:33 PM
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You have a lot of faith in the federal justice system.

Anything that has Congress afraid is going to be hard to get treated fairly on.
That makes sense actually. Maybe she realized, so soon after McCarthy, how deep in the doo doo she had gotten into, even if she hadn't realized it until the end what was going on.

Still amazing she actually got on that plane. Wow.
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Old 05-10-2016, 03:37 PM
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Plus Edward R. Murrow isn't around anymore to call out the contemptible demagogues.
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Old 05-10-2016, 03:54 PM
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Plus Edward R. Murrow isn't around anymore to call out the contemptible demagogues.
Now we have Brian Williams.

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..Maybe she realized, so soon after McCarthy, how deep in the doo doo she had gotten into, even if she hadn't realized it until the end what was going on.

Still amazing she actually got on that plane. Wow.
Don't recall much fear of McCarthyism during that era, perhaps a bad memory was erased by that time. Turmoil at the FBI due to Watergate and the Saturday Night Massacre's aftermath were probably more paramount within the bureau; just a guess. iirc, William Webster was a very credible appointee with Abscam and Mafia notches in his belt.

http://www.theguardian.com/theguardi...uits-watergate

As someone else mentioned Martha was conned, victimized by Phillip; in the end that could mean something to even twitchy Stan.

Not certain she got on the plane in the manner Phillip, et al., apparently believe.

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Old 05-11-2016, 01:37 PM
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Last week's acting and directing was among the best this series has ever seen.

- The opening scene with Martha's departure which had no dialogue until the end.
- Elizabeth's monologue with Paige telling her what she WILL do.
- Philip and Elizabeth's shouting match.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:10 AM
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No mention of the shooting down of Korean Flight 007 which happened previous to The Day After. I was curious if the incident was going to work into the storyline.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:18 PM
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Very good episode. How man can be so brilliant and so stupid. Elizabeth will do what it takes and can repress her emotions, and to accomplish what.

These are just my opinions.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:48 PM
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Durn Charter DVR stopped at the scene where Philip was sitting on the park bench about 12 minutes or so in and hung there like a freeze frame through out .. big storm had rolled through the St Louis area around the time .. of course, FX did not have it OnDemand last night .. hoping they add it tonight .. I don't remember ever having had this issue before ..

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Old 05-13-2016, 04:24 PM
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No mention of the shooting down of Korean Flight 007 which happened previous to The Day After. I was curious if the incident was going to work into the storyline.
Yeah how can they ignore that?
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:16 PM
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What an episode!

I really needed to see Stan and Philip playing racquetball, Paige learning how to drive a car, and two Russians having pretend sex.

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Old 05-13-2016, 07:47 PM
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... The more you post in this thread, the less I find any grounds for agreement.

Well, the "two Russians having pretend sex", maybe I could agree. I was indifferent to it. Depends upon where they intend to go with these characters as to whether or not this scene served any real purpose. So far, all it revealed was that she was a poor Russian. And put to rest any last bit of remaining doubt (if anyone had any) that they were gettin' busy after work hours.


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Old 05-14-2016, 06:11 AM
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When Elizabeth said "I'm going to miss her" at the end ....
She of course was referring to the Korean friend, due to the friendship not being able to continue, right? It almost seemed from the scene she was talking about Paige ...
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Old 05-14-2016, 06:53 AM
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When Elizabeth said "I'm going to miss her" at the end ....
She of course was referring to the Korean friend, due to the friendship not being able to continue, right? It almost seemed from the scene she was talking about Paige ...
That was very touching. You get the impression she was the first real friend Elizabeth ever had. I thought this episode was extremely powerful, precisely because of all the quiet moments. We got a peek at what life would be like for them if they weren't constantly balancing on the knife edge of danger and discovery.

Gabriel knows how close they came to just plain losing it, and the Center losing two of their most valuable field agents. If anyone ever needed a vacation, it was them. But from the previews, it looks like they're jumping back into the fire with both feet next week.
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Old 05-14-2016, 06:59 AM
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...It almost seemed from the scene she was talking about Paige ...
Funny, at first I thought the same, perhaps implying Elizabeth's return to the motherland, until the obvious bell rang.

Episode was a total snooze for me.

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Old 05-14-2016, 08:30 AM
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That was very touching. You get the impression she was the first real friend Elizabeth ever had. I thought this episode was extremely powerful, precisely because of all the quiet moments.
I agree. That she could do that to a friend, it's why the bottom line is life is absurd. You have to be programmed at an early age to get where Phillip and Elizabeth are. How man can progress in someways but not in a humanity way. Power always leads to destruction. No doubt this show has depth.

These are just my opinions.
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Old 05-14-2016, 08:53 AM
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Deep question and slightly OT: Wonder why in sci-fi novels & movies, other intelligent alien life is always monolithic on their home worlds? They all have "one world government" and all have the same goals and agendas. I suspect that when we do run into other intelligent life out there, if they've evolved and progressed at least as far as us, their societies will probably be just as fragmented and suspicious of each other as ours. Maybe we'll never grow out of this because we just can't...?
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Old 05-14-2016, 09:59 AM
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Deep question and slightly OT: Wonder why in sci-fi novels & movies, other intelligent alien life is always monolithic on their home worlds? They all have "one world government" and all have the same goals and agendas. I suspect that when we do run into other intelligent life out there, if they've evolved and progressed at least as far as us, their societies will probably be just as fragmented and suspicious of each other as ours. Maybe we'll never grow out of this because we just can't...?
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:02 AM
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^^^ Very subversive episode! One of my favs, 'natch.
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Old 05-14-2016, 10:35 AM
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^^^ Very subversive episode! One of my favs, 'natch.
Me too .. one of these days, I'll tell my Frank Gorshin story ..


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