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post #1801 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 12:26 PM
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Elizabeth made a mistake, killing the "mugger". Should have just incapacitated him and left. Paige is going to have one of two reactions to this (long term, after the short term hysteria) she will either question everything her parents have told her ... again ... or she will see the importance of being able to protect yourself and want to learn how, thus taking her a step closer to recruitment.

The question is, will she understand she was about to be raped and possibly killed? Will she see her mother's actions as heroic or criminal? In any case, more Paige drama about to unfold. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm getting a bit tired of this story line and wish they would wrap it up, so we can concentrate on the adults again.

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post #1802 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 12:52 PM
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Considering the man was armed, and Elizabeth was fighting 2 on 1, her training kicked in and she probably felt to not kill the second mugger may have put their lives in even more danger. She had to dispose of one before she could defeat the other. And then he ended up running away.

But the point of the scene was probably to make Paige become even more suspicious of her parents and what they're capable of. Whether that leads to further betrayal of her parents or further immersion into the spy world remains to be seen.
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post #1803 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 01:20 PM
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I believe Paige is well old enough to know and think about the ramifications that could have occurred had Elizabeth not been willing and able to step in .. I am personally hoping this incident brings Paige and her Mom closer ..

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post #1804 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 01:53 PM
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...but I'm getting a bit tired of this story line and wish they would wrap it up, so we can concentrate on the adults again.
Don't know, but agree Paige's involvement is taken to the edge of tedium. I enjoy the contrast between Paige's interactions with Elizabeth and the limited time she hangs with Stan's son Matthew. My guess remains the story will be resolved collectively or individually by the kids, if a mole doesn't strike first.
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post #1805 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 02:11 PM
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I guess I see Paige's role in a different light .. that of a child who has now grown up enough to question and ultimately learn about her parents real agendas .. now becoming somewhat of a protagonist in the story .. and, a potential recruit ..


To me, it adds something of a personal touch of drama that would take place around a family in this scenario .. I'm betting, maybe hoping, she goes to the Dark Side ..


All I know for sure is, Pastor Timmy and Wife have to go .. and Paige will likely need to play a role in it ..

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post #1806 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 02:44 PM
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...I'm betting, maybe hoping, she goes to the Dark Side ..


All I know for sure is, Pastor Timmy and Wife have to go .. and Paige will likely need to play a role in it ..
Forgot Paige's relayed to Elizabeth something Matt told her when they were alone. So yeah, she now has 1.5 feet on the dark side.

I'll be very disappointed if in the end the story is primarily about Paige.

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post #1807 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 04:01 PM
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Forgot Paige's relayed to Elizabeth something Matt told her when they were alone. So yeah, she now has 1.5 feet on the dark side.

I'll be very disappointed if in the end the story is primarily about Paige.
That could be exactly where this is headed, with Paige heading up the "Family Business".
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post #1808 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 04:05 PM
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... All I know for sure is, Pastor Timmy and Wife have to go .. and Paige will likely need to play a role in it ..
Don't forget there is an attorney holding incriminating documents on the commie couple. Pastor Tim's wife apologized but never mentioned she got the documents back. I think those documents will remain with the attorney as they are now life insurance. Although given the abilities of our dynamic duo I suppose that attorneys office could be located and somehow suffer a disastrous fire. Time will tell.
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post #1809 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 04:07 PM
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Will a police report get to the FBI about another 30's woman who put the beatdown and neck stab on another couple of dudes?
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post #1810 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 04:20 PM
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Will a police report get to the FBI about another 30's woman who put the beatdown and neck stab on another couple of dudes?
The only police report that will exist is that some bum got killed on the street. There are no witnesses. The dead guy's friend ain't tellin' nobody what he saw without incriminating himself....
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post #1811 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 06:09 PM
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Forgot Paige's relayed to Elizabeth something Matt told her when they were alone. So yeah, she now has 1.5 feet on the dark side.
I found it possibly telling* that Paige didn't keep asking questions after revealing to Elizabeth that there was a secretary spy in the FBI office who had disappeared recently. I thought she would have pushed a little for information, but she didn't. Paige dropped it immediately when Elizabeth didn't respond further and then she blithely moved onto a request for more driving practice.

* Perhaps another indication of her increasing comfort with the spy world.

As far as how much of the show is centered around Paige, I'm fine with it. In fact, I like it and like the balance the show has struck with the family issues and external spycraft. The show was predicated in large part about the marriage as much as the spy machinations. It's only natural that 4-5 seasons down the line, the children would become an equally large part of the story.
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I'll be very disappointed if in the end the story is primarily about Paige.
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That could be exactly where this is headed, with Paige heading up the "Family Business".
With respect to how this all ends in a couple seasons: It would be interesting if Philip and Elizabeth grow increasingly disillusioned with the spy life and ultimately both decide to get out while Paige becomes increasingly seduced and inspired by it. Then she ends up betraying her parents, maybe even being the one to "handle the situation", i.e., kill them for the cause. And Henry too, as collateral damage. Then the show ends.

Dark enough for you?
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post #1812 of 1901 Old 05-31-2016, 08:23 PM
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Don't forget there is an attorney holding incriminating documents on the commie couple. Pastor Tim's wife apologized but never mentioned she got the documents back. I think those documents will remain with the attorney as they are now life insurance. Although given the abilities of our dynamic duo I suppose that attorneys office could be located and somehow suffer a disastrous fire. Time will tell.
I think the whole attorney bit was a bluff ..

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post #1813 of 1901 Old 06-01-2016, 01:30 AM
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That would prove to be very bad for her health, if it's true.
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post #1814 of 1901 Old 06-01-2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

With respect to how this all ends in a couple seasons: It would be interesting if Philip and Elizabeth grow increasingly disillusioned with the spy life and ultimately both decide to get out while Paige becomes increasingly seduced and inspired by it. Then she ends up betraying her parents, maybe even being the one to "handle the situation", i.e., kill them for the cause. And Henry too, as collateral damage. Then the show ends.

Dark enough for you?
I would find that ending quite ironic and oh so fitting.
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post #1815 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 03:06 AM
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Don't forget that they already did that with Jared in season 2 when they made him kill his family at the amusement park.

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post #1816 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 07:40 AM
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I guess I see Paige's role in a different light .. that of a child who has now grown up enough to question and ultimately learn about her parents real agendas .. now becoming somewhat of a protagonist in the story .. and, a potential recruit ..


To me, it adds something of a personal touch of drama that would take place around a family in this scenario .. I'm betting, maybe hoping, she goes to the Dark Side ..
I agree, and I'm really enjoying Paige's part in the whole drama. As a father whose daughter recently "left the nest," it's heartbreaking to see a young woman burdened with this knowledge and forced to keep up appearances with the church instead of enjoying growing up. You want your children to have a fulfilling childhood and teenage years, but Phillip and Elizabeth don't seem to think of that. It's Duty above all else...
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post #1817 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 07:47 AM
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Just like Warren Jeffs and the fundamentalist Mormons it's a programming from an early age. I would say Paige is not programmed and won't follow her parents. Phillip and Elizibeth are programmed at an early age.

These are just my opinions.
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post #1818 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 08:11 AM
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The only police report that will exist is that some bum got killed on the street. There are no witnesses. The dead guy's friend ain't tellin' nobody what he saw without incriminating himself....
Imagining the possibility that Matthew and Paige have a beer or two and Paige mentions about being attacked. Matthew tells Stan, Stan tells Aderholt who seems to be the whiz at making these connections and has first hand knowledge of a woman kicking two dudes collective asses...
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post #1819 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 08:43 AM
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This week's episode reminded me of a seminar I attended in the '70s. One of the speaker's was a Soviet specialist. His premise was that the Soviet Union acted as it did because the horribly high price it had paid in both blood and treasure in World War II created a national resolve that the nation would do whatever it took to protect itself against another such bloodbath. His shorthand phrase for this national state of mind was, "Never Again!"

I was reminded of all this when Oleg met with Stan to tell him about the desperate things brilliant but critically underfunded Soviet scientists were doing, including developing biological weapons. Because of his disapproval of all this, Oleg also told Stan about a Soviet mole working for one of the US contractors working on pathogenic research. The first thing I thought of during this scene was, "Never Again!" Oleg saw the problem. Like, William, it scared him to death and he wanted it stopped. I will be interested to see where all this goes in the series finale. The Americans is great television.
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post #1820 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 10:56 AM
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Considering the man was armed, and Elizabeth was fighting 2 on 1, her training kicked in and she probably felt to not kill the second mugger may have put their lives in even more danger. She had to dispose of one before she could defeat the other. And then he ended up running away.

But the point of the scene was probably to make Paige become even more suspicious of her parents and what they're capable of. Whether that leads to further betrayal of her parents or further immersion into the spy world remains to be seen.
This incident could come back to haunt them in a future episode.
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post #1821 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 11:52 AM
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I think this is all going to end tragic for Paige when the series concludes. "Don't you trust me" she pleads to her parents. I can see Phillip's reluctance not wanting her to follow in the family business but Mommy Dearest will prevail and ultimately Paige will turn. When this will occur, I'm thinking before the wall comes down. Mother Russia is still calling the shots and an assignment will come for Paige to eliminate someone.
Maybe Stan because he's to close and he wouldn't see this young girl coming.. What happens though is Paige hesitates and pays the ultimate price. Elizabeth is now left alone and decimated knowing she was responsible for Paige's death. With the collapse of Communism all the sleepers are left to fend for themselves. For Elizabeth the end comes with a barrel in her mouth.

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post #1822 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 12:48 PM
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Don't forget that they already did that with Jared in season 2 when they made him kill his family at the amusement park.

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Yep. Could be Jared Redux.
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post #1823 of 1901 Old 06-02-2016, 09:03 PM
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Don't forget that they already did that with Jared in season 2 when they made him kill his family at the amusement park.
Nobody "made" him do that. His parents tried to turn him and failed horribly, IIRC.

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Oleg saw the problem. Like, William, it scared him to death and he wanted it stopped.
I have a feeling Oleg isn't going to come out of this unharmed. Once the FBI gets William, the Centre isn't going to be happy. It won't be too hard to tell that there was a leak, since the FBI has ignored William all this time, and Oleg is probably the only unauthorised person to whom his lover disclosed confidential information...
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post #1824 of 1901 Old 06-03-2016, 07:30 AM
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...since the FBI has ignored William all this time, and Oleg is probably the only unauthorised person to whom his lover disclosed confidential information...
The possibility the virulent bioweapon is a sting, or will become a one, persists for me. Stan discovered counterintel work in DC isn't the same as in St. Louis. Wonder if they tapped Martha's parents line.

A win by the hometeam was long overdue.

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post #1825 of 1901 Old 06-03-2016, 01:10 PM
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I have a feeling that the show's finale will not have the Jennings family living happily in a Black Sea cottage. More likely a black site.
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post #1826 of 1901 Old 06-03-2016, 08:06 PM
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Don't forget that they already did that with Jared in season 2 when they made him kill his family at the amusement park.

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Wrong.

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Yep. Could be Jared Redux.
Wrong.

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Nobody "made" him do that. His parents tried to turn him and failed horribly, IIRC.

Getting warmer, at least.


No, the parents didn't try to turn him. And nor did the "centre" give him a directive to kill his own family. The kid went off the deep end.

The centre did have a handler meeting with Jared, developing him as an agent but doing this without his spy parents knowledge and consent.

When the parents found out, they wanted to put a stop to it so Jared took matters into his own hands. At least in part, out of puppy dog devotion to his attractive handler for whom he had declared his love.



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post #1827 of 1901 Old 06-04-2016, 09:16 AM
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I have a feeling Oleg isn't going to come out of this unharmed. Once the FBI gets William, the Centre isn't going to be happy. It won't be too hard to tell that there was a leak, since the FBI has ignored William all this time, and Oleg is probably the only unauthorised person to whom his lover disclosed confidential information...
That's not true, they've been following William for some time and he knew about it.
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post #1828 of 1901 Old 06-04-2016, 09:22 AM
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That's not true, they've been following William for some time and he knew about it.
That's not the impression I got from the FBI conference room research scene. They didn't know who they were looking for until they matched up a 5 year old's death record with William's employment file. If William thought he was being followed, that was just his paranoia talking. He was doing a risky job and, aside from his handlers, he was basically all alone. It wouldn't be surprising if he got a little paranoid from time to time.
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post #1829 of 1901 Old 06-04-2016, 11:39 AM
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...His premise was that the Soviet Union acted as it did because the horribly high price it had paid in both blood and treasure in World War II created a national resolve that the nation would do whatever it took to protect itself against another such bloodbath...
Elizabeth's from Smolensk, 600 miles from the German border and site of a July '41 battle that slowed their advance on Moscow, 200 miles to the east, where they were repelled back toward Smolensk. Higher end estimates of Russian casualties during that campaign are 650,000 to 1,000,000.

Nevertheless, the Moscow front was not finally secured until October 1943, when Army Group Center was decisively repulsed from the Smolensk landbridge and from the left shore of the upper Dnieper at the end of the Second Battle of Smolensk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow

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post #1830 of 1901 Old 06-04-2016, 02:18 PM
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That's not true, they've been following William for some time and he knew about it.
He wasn't being followed because the FBI was suspicious about him. He had a regular security detail because of the sensitive work he was doing, as did his colleagues. Philip was using Martha's intelligence to know when William was being watched and thus when it was safe to have a meeting.
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