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post #181 of 1060 Old 02-16-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Maybe so, but that was hinted at in the 2nd episode, I believe.

You mean when Philip was talking about retirement? I think that was a plot device. She's the true believer, newly falling in love with her husband but unwilling to betray her homeland. He loves her and would never leave her behind. That inherent conflict creates the dramatic underpinning of the show.

That's not to say their loyalties couldn't shift about some, maybe a little more flirtation with the idea of defecting, etc. Dramatic possibilities abound.
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post #182 of 1060 Old 02-16-2013, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Just watched this week's episode. Good stuff.

I knew the mother would not get out alive. Surprised about the baby going to Russia.

Interesting to see Elizabeth's old boyfriend show up.
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post #183 of 1060 Old 02-16-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Maybe so, but that was hinted at in the 2nd episode, I believe.

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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

You mean when Philip was talking about retirement? I think that was a plot device. She's the true believer, newly falling in love with her husband but unwilling to betray her homeland. He loves her and would never leave her behind. That inherent conflict creates the dramatic underpinning of the show.

That's not to say their loyalties couldn't shift about some, maybe a little more flirtation with the idea of defecting, etc. Dramatic possibilities abound.

Yeah, it's clear that Phillip seriously considered defection when he had the KGB defector in the trunk of his car and was also worried about the FBI agent across the street. At the time, Elizabeth wasn't interested but who knows what will happen when Phillip and Elizabeth's options start to run out? The possibilities abound. The Americans is a remarkably smart show. I have loved it from the get go and it just keeps getting better.
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post #184 of 1060 Old 02-16-2013, 08:08 PM
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After all the price-of-caviar picking earlier, i thought for sure i'd see people mention the lack of authenticity when phillip's briefcase burst open and there were new-100's in there circa 1996 or later.

Great episode and we're really enjoying the show so far. I'd enjoy a little more 80s silliness like the Facts of Life cover on the old magazine.
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post #185 of 1060 Old 02-18-2013, 05:17 AM
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Episode two's ending with America promising to shield the Brits from nukes, pretty much says it all.
You can connect all the dots why the world is in the mess its in today. Man is so smart and so dumb.
Should have signed the treaty. We'd all been better off.

These are just my opinions.
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post #186 of 1060 Old 02-18-2013, 08:44 AM
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All caught up now. Really enjoying it. I can forgive I saw LED stoplights. Really good ending to "Gregory" with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the secret wife and baby
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post #187 of 1060 Old 02-18-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HotTubJohnny View Post

After all the price-of-caviar picking earlier, i thought for sure i'd see people mention the lack of authenticity when phillip's briefcase burst open and there were new-100's in there circa 1996 or later.

Great episode and we're really enjoying the show so far. I'd enjoy a little more 80s silliness like the Facts of Life cover on the old magazine.
Maybe the producers are too young to remember when the presidents didn't have fat heads.... wink.gif

I'm not sure why they couldn't have created some eighties era fakes for the shot of them laying on the floor. If I'm not mistaken, it's OK to do that as long as you don't do the second side. Once you print both sides, it becomes counterfeiting. For the shot where the bills fly out of the case, they could print almost anything that looks close.
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post #188 of 1060 Old 02-19-2013, 06:12 AM
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Maybe the producers are too young to remember when the presidents didn't have fat heads.... wink.gif

I'm not sure why they couldn't have created some eighties era fakes for the shot of them laying on the floor. If I'm not mistaken, it's OK to do that as long as you don't do the second side. Once you print both sides, it becomes counterfeiting. For the shot where the bills fly out of the case, they could print almost anything that looks close.
I don't remember Benjamin Franklin ever being President. What number was he? rolleyes.gif
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post #189 of 1060 Old 02-19-2013, 07:16 AM
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I don't remember Benjamin Franklin ever being President. What number was he? rolleyes.gif
Whatever...there's a reason "dead presidents" is slang for money....

At any rate...

There weren't just hundreds there...I saw a couple of Jacksons, though they appeared to be older versions...

At any rate, they really put together a pretty good haul to buy the plans. Even if the bills had all been $20, a briefcase like he had can hold at least $40,000. Assuming half of those bills were hundreds (say one layer of hundreds and one of $20), that would be at least $120,000 in bound bills.

That's a lot of petty cash to get on short notice...in 80's dollars.
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post #190 of 1060 Old 02-19-2013, 10:07 AM
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, that would be at least $120,000 in bound bills.

That's a lot of petty cash to get on short notice...in 80's dollars.


No big deal-they just sold a couple pounds of caviar... smile.gif

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #191 of 1060 Old 02-19-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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No big deal-they just sold a couple pounds of caviar... smile.gif

LOL biggrin.gif

Good conversation about the money. I did not even take notice.
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post #192 of 1060 Old 02-19-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Whatever...there's a reason "dead presidents" is slang for money....

At any rate...

There weren't just hundreds there...I saw a couple of Jacksons, though they appeared to be older versions...

At any rate, they really put together a pretty good haul to buy the plans. Even if the bills had all been $20, a briefcase like he had can hold at least $40,000. Assuming half of those bills were hundreds (say one layer of hundreds and one of $20), that would be at least $120,000 in bound bills.

That's a lot of petty cash to get on short notice...in 80's dollars.
Alexander Hamilton wasn't president either (although he was "dead" before his time).
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post #193 of 1060 Old 02-20-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

I don't remember Benjamin Franklin ever being President. What number was he? rolleyes.gif

wasn't he the secretive President as part of the Mason's ??? smile.gif
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post #194 of 1060 Old 02-20-2013, 08:58 AM
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wasn't he the secretive President as part of the Mason's ??? smile.gif

I'VE GOT ONE THAT CAN SEE

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post #195 of 1060 Old 02-20-2013, 04:37 PM
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Caught up on the last two episodes before I get behind again tonight. This is definitely my new favorite show. Give the guy who plays the husband an Emmy already.
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post #196 of 1060 Old 02-20-2013, 05:08 PM
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Caught up on the last two episodes before I get behind again tonight. This is definitely my new favorite show. Give the guy who plays the husband an Emmy already.


I like how smoothly he shifts from bland suburban husband to James Bond and does both equally well. Heck, I just plain like HIM. He's got that hard to define quality where I just naturally feel on his side.

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post #197 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 06:05 AM
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I thought that was the best episode so far.
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post #198 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 07:04 AM
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I like how smoothly he shifts from bland suburban husband to James Bond and does both equally well. Heck, I just plain like HIM. He's got that hard to define quality where I just naturally feel on his side.

Ditto!

It's also interesting to see how American values are affecting him....for the good. A case in point is when Elizabeth was questioning the news stating that President Reagan was going to live. She did this because of her upbringing in the Soviet Union where there was so much propaganda and cover-ups. Philip's response to her was, "They aren't like that here in America," and you could see by his facial expression that he admired the openness and honesty in America. So, here is another "conflict of interest" developing in him that will make it harder and harder for him to perform his duties for the Motherland.

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post #199 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 08:22 AM
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What I really liked about this episode was that we could unabashedly root for them (or, at least, him) to succeed; both sides wanted the same thing, for things not to escalate. His understanding of American politics was key, and I loved the way they built the premise around Haig's blunder. Very smart television.
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post #200 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 09:20 AM
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"We have met the enemy and they are us." Can't remember what that is from, but it popped in my head while watching. From the FBI guy making the far fetched assumption that it was a KGB hit, to the equally paranoid Russian rush to judgement that America was on the verge of a military coup, it was clear both sides are more alike than they would ever admit. Even Elizabeth blindly accepted the view of americans as some sort of super bad guys, while the FBI was seeing her countrymen in the same way. Phillip emerges as the voice of sanity to us detached observers of the insanity', proving once again common sense ain't all that common. Having come to know us he finds the whole idea of the military taking control nonsensical and is angrily frustrated when noone else can see the obvious. I thought it was brilliant the way they evenhandedly showed both sides, with some of the FBI guys also beginning to doubt their boss' paranoid delusions. Which leads to the neighbor seemingly speaking too freely to what are just casual aquaintances. On the surface it seems unbelievable he would tell his neighbors so much, esp. with his suspicions about them. But maybe he was thinking that if they were spies it would be a way to defuse a crazy situation? He seemed to be saying "Hey, everything is cool", which is what Phillip told his superiours. Neither side is pure evil, and the episode showcased their common humanity while offerring gripping drama. Great, great television.

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #201 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 09:22 AM
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In other words, I liked it. smile.gif

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #202 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

"We have met the enemy and they are us." Can't remember what that is from, but it popped in my head while watching. From the FBI guy making the far fetched assumption that it was a KGB hit, to the equally paranoid Russian rush to judgement that America was on the verge of a military coup, it was clear both sides are more alike than they would ever admit.
We still do this.

Don't forget, our first reaction to the Oklahoma City bombing was to think it was international terrorists, since this followed somewhat closely on the heels of the original parking garage bomb at the World Trade Center.

The first reaction wasn't to even consider it might be some home grown farm boy. Had Timothy McVeigh not been stopped for a routine traffic incident only to be arrested for an illegal firearm, we might have been looking to go to war with someone before the story came out.

Even the whole Reagan shooting was seen as a greater conspiracy when what it really amounted to was a celebrity stalker wanting to prove his love to the source of his obsession. There wasn't some greater political move behind it like there was with Lincoln.

Even the misinformation in the early hours of the Newtown shootings painted a far different picture and movtive for them.

When an incident like that happens, we rush to find a suspect, a reason and a solution for it. In other words, we respond to this stuff like jumping on the latest fad diet. Forget research and real thought - whatever results we get had better come quick. If the real numbers don't add up to what we want them to, we'll dismiss them and move on to something else.
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post #203 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

"We have met the enemy and they are us." Can't remember what that is from, but it popped in my head while watching. From the FBI guy making the far fetched assumption that it was a KGB hit, to the equally paranoid Russian rush to judgement that America was on the verge of a military coup, it was clear both sides are more alike than they would ever admit. Even Elizabeth blindly accepted the view of americans as some sort of super bad guys, while the FBI was seeing her countrymen in the same way. Phillip emerges as the voice of sanity to us detached observers of the insanity', proving once again common sense ain't all that common. Having come to know us he finds the whole idea of the military taking control nonsensical and is angrily frustrated when noone else can see the obvious. I thought it was brilliant the way they evenhandedly showed both sides, with some of the FBI guys also beginning to doubt their boss' paranoid delusions. Which leads to the neighbor seemingly speaking too freely to what are just casual aquaintances. On the surface it seems unbelievable he would tell his neighbors so much, esp. with his suspicions about them. But maybe he was thinking that if they were spies it would be a way to defuse a crazy situation? He seemed to be saying "Hey, everything is cool", which is what Phillip told his superiours. Neither side is pure evil, and the episode showcased their common humanity while offerring gripping drama. Great, great television.

You say "neither side is pure evil". I know our government isn't "pure evil"; but the Soviet 50's/60's invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia qualifies their government in my mind. Of course, at the "working level" they are carrying out the orders of their governments and the definition of good and evil become blurred.

As to the FBI boss having "paranoid delusions", he is the head of the FBI's counter intelligence group. It's his job to pursue every avenue that could determine if there was Soviet involvement in the attempted shooting of Reagan. What's done with the information is above his pay grade. Same thing applies to Elizabeth and Phillip. They acknowledged at the end of the show that it was their job to gather information; not determine what to do with it. Right or wrong, they knew they would be disciplined if their handlers in the Kremlin found out that they had withheld their intelligence.
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post #204 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 02:27 PM
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post #205 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 02:27 PM
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You say "neither side is pure evil". I know our government isn't "pure evil"; but the Soviet 50's/60's invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia qualifies their government in my mind. Of course, at the "working level" they are carrying out the orders of their governments and the definition of good and evil become blurred.
Let's not assume we're above doing sleezy stuff.

Don't forget that we had our hands in places like Iran and Iraq in the 70's and 80's purely to try to repell the Soviets. We armed militants there and got them to scrap for us, then when things went bad, we said "you're on your own - keep up the good fight". Keep in mind that a young man named Osama Bin Ladin was one of those we burned in that deal, which became the official birth of the suicide bomber.

Further, don't forget our "police actions" in places like Vietnam. We occupied various places around the globe, including Cuba, Haiti and part of Berlin at one point. During World War II, we didn't just vaporize two entire civilian cities in retaliation for them hitting a military target, we imprisoned a whole lot of Japanese American citizens.

We have more bases around the world than anyone else - including in places where no one likes us. This includes Cuba, where we're hated so much that they refuse to even cash our lease checks.

Of course, we also shouldn't forget how we got our big land mass in the first place - and the second place when we headed West. Finally, there are several million African Americans that are still waiting on their 40 acres and a mule.

That doesn't even take into account all the "research" the government performed on ordinary citizens in regards to disease, drugs and atomic bombs.

We aren't as clean as we like to think we are. We aren't Nazi dirty, but we've done our fair share of making others miserable.
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As to the FBI boss having "paranoid delusions", he is the head of the FBI's counter intelligence group. It's his job to pursue every avenue that could determine if there was Soviet involvement in the attempted shooting of Reagan. What's done with the information is above his pay grade. Same thing applies to Elizabeth and Phillip. They acknowledged at the end of the show that it was their job to gather information; not determine what to do with it. Right or wrong, they knew they would be disciplined if their handlers in the Kremlin found out that they had withheld their intelligence.
The only issue is the linear thinking that it's always those big bad Russians that are to blame. If the show were about sleeper agents from the middle east, the focus would always be on how they might be to blame. That's how these shows always work. The only threat is the one for which you have an ongoing acting part for someone.

This wasn't the 60's. The Russians weren't the only people we didn't get along with.

It would be nice to see the exploration of all the "work product" in analyzing a security incident to include all threats.

On the other hand, the Russian agents were right to be afraid of some kind of sweep - even if they weren't the only target.
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post #206 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 02:32 PM
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post #207 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 02:36 PM
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Very good news.

It's nice to have some assurance that the network isn't planning to yank it any time soon.

That's one thing the cable and premium stations do well: they jump on a show that's doing well and let the audience know they're happy to let it ride for a while. That's a complete 180 to the broadcast networks that tend to cancel quickly, but renew slowly.
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post #208 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lonwolf615 View Post

"We have met the enemy and they are us." Can't remember what that is from, but it popped in my head while watching. From the FBI guy making the far fetched assumption that it was a KGB hit, to the equally paranoid Russian rush to judgement that America was on the verge of a military coup, it was clear both sides are more alike than they would ever admit. Even Elizabeth blindly accepted the view of americans as some sort of super bad guys, while the FBI was seeing her countrymen in the same way. Phillip emerges as the voice of sanity to us detached observers of the insanity', proving once again common sense ain't all that common. Having come to know us he finds the whole idea of the military taking control nonsensical and is angrily frustrated when noone else can see the obvious. I thought it was brilliant the way they evenhandedly showed both sides, with some of the FBI guys also beginning to doubt their boss' paranoid delusions. Which leads to the neighbor seemingly speaking too freely to what are just casual aquaintances. On the surface it seems unbelievable he would tell his neighbors so much, esp. with his suspicions about them. But maybe he was thinking that if they were spies it would be a way to defuse a crazy situation? He seemed to be saying "Hey, everything is cool", which is what Phillip told his superiours. Neither side is pure evil, and the episode showcased their common humanity while offerring gripping drama. Great, great television.
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post #209 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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Even the whole Reagan shooting was seen as a greater conspiracy when what it really amounted to was a celebrity stalker wanting to prove his love to the source of his obsession. There wasn't some greater political move behind it like there was with Lincoln.

Poor guy had no chance. biggrin.gif
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post #210 of 1060 Old 02-21-2013, 06:50 PM
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Really digging Matthew Rhys in this.

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