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post #2221 of 2402 Old 05-08-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
.. They've already gone through the "what if the kids find out who their parents are!" storyline with Paige. They'd just be repeating it with Henry. ...
Yes, this is an excellent point too.

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post #2222 of 2402 Old 05-08-2017, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RemyM View Post
Henry has hardly been on the show this season. Clearly this boarding school angle is a way for him to leave the show completely.
During the entire series, Henry has mostly been a "plot pawn," rather like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet. Compare him to the Paige character, who is more well-rounded. Unfortunately, neither of these characters is played by a good actor, IMO. Paige's line readings sound stilted to me.

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post #2223 of 2402 Old 05-08-2017, 02:57 PM
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During the entire series, Henry has mostly been a "plot pawn," rather like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern in Hamlet. Compare him to the Paige character, who is more well-rounded. Unfortunately, neither of these characters is played by a good actor, IMO. Paige's line readings sound stilted to me.
Yeah, I agree. Don't think she's the best young actress I've seen. It's a meaty role, but the praise she's gotten for her performance has left me scratching my head.
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post #2224 of 2402 Old 05-08-2017, 02:59 PM
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Yeah, I agree. Don't think she's the best young actress I've seen. It's a meaty role, but the praise she's gotten for her performance has left me scratching my head.
The character is interesting enough that I can overlook the mehhh acting, given the otherwise good acting in the show.

However, a triple dose of Margo Martindale is what it takes for me to overcome Phillip's laughably awful wigs.
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post #2225 of 2402 Old 05-08-2017, 03:33 PM
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Hey, those awful wigs are why even hot young high school chicks find him irresistible! Speaking of, I had forgotten about that operation until they revisited it in this last episode, as the hot young high school chick whose father is a CIA officer turned 17. Didn't know it was still ongoing.
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post #2226 of 2402 Old 05-09-2017, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RemyM View Post
Henry has hardly been on the show this season. Clearly this boarding school angle is a way for him to leave the show completely.
Henry's boarding school scholarship is integral to the plot and another reason the Jennings will not return to the motherland as a family. The unintended irony of Elizabeth's "he's worked hard" comment apparently went over her head.

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post #2227 of 2402 Old 05-09-2017, 06:35 AM
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Martha wasn't thrilled with Gabriel's offer of potential employment and she's again a squeaky wheel for the Russians. To reiterate, she's either traded or, because she's become a threat, eliminated.

Appears Phil's young girlfriend's father is investigating Gadd's assassination.
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post #2228 of 2402 Old 05-10-2017, 01:02 PM
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Lol, just when you think they're writing the kid off of the show, along come the previews for next week.

Unless, his visit with Stan at headquarters is what actually compels P&E to approve shuffling him off to boarding school, rarely to be heard from again.

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post #2229 of 2402 Old 05-10-2017, 01:11 PM
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I was surprised by the wedding ceremony. Seems like they've been setting up the show for more of an adversarial P vs. E relationship going forward, especially where Paige is concerned. This new expression of commitment might suggest otherwise.


Loved the darkroom scene. The brief physical manifestations of visceral reaction from both Philip (slight head jerk) and Elizabeth (parted lips) when reading the alarming assessment about Paige from Pastor Tim. Nice editing there. And Paige looking to both of them, as if to gauge their reactions to what Pastor Tim had written.
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post #2230 of 2402 Old 05-10-2017, 08:25 PM
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Paige is certainly getting devious. She basically set a trap for her parents! She lured them in with the prospect of gathering intelligence on what kind of job offer Pastor Tim would be most likely to accept, but she really wanted them to read what he wrote about her and to gauge their reactions.

It simultaneously seemed a bit passive-aggressive, in that she wanted her parents to see the diary for themselves, because they weren't taking it seriously in Paige's view, as well as a cry for help, in that by actively going out of her way to copy and show the diary to them, she is tacitly agreeing with Pastor Tim's assessment of her situation and wants her parents to know, "This is what you've done to me," as explained by a third party, so they can't accuse her of having invalid objections and overreacting like a spoiled kid, or anything of the sort.
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post #2231 of 2402 Old 05-11-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
Lol, just when you think they're writing the kid off of the show, along come the previews for next week.

Unless, his visit with Stan at headquarters is what actually compels P&E to approve shuffling him off to boarding school, rarely to be heard from again.
Thanks for the headsup.
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post #2232 of 2402 Old 05-11-2017, 08:54 AM
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Paige is certainly getting devious. She basically set a trap for her parents! She lured them in with the prospect of gathering intelligence on what kind of job offer Pastor Tim would be most likely to accept, but she really wanted them to read what he wrote about her and to gauge their reactions.

It simultaneously seemed a bit passive-aggressive, in that she wanted her parents to see the diary for themselves, because they weren't taking it seriously in Paige's view, as well as a cry for help, in that by actively going out of her way to copy and show the diary to them, she is tacitly agreeing with Pastor Tim's assessment of her situation and wants her parents to know, "This is what you've done to me," as explained by a third party, so they can't accuse her of having invalid objections and overreacting like a spoiled kid, or anything of the sort.
I don't know if I fully agree Paige has quite reached that sort of plotting ability .. the reference in the self-righteous Pastors journal to a "sexual abuse" analogy was over-the-top, IMO and seemed to be the eyebrow raising point .. Paige has decided she wants the Pastor out, and perhaps the disclosure of the Journal was an attempt to speed up the process .. at the same time, she could have just signed the Pastors end in a different fashion ..

Phillip whipping out a hidden film darkroom was great TV ..

I agree with some of the earlier posts regarding Paige .. and her somewhat stilted acting .. as well, I'm tired of her whining side story .. she knows what her parents do, they have been essentially honest with her .. now, the altercation Eliz had in front of Paige a while back, could still be a factor .. I don't know how two parents could ever hide their "occupations" from the children that live in the same home ..

The getting actually married part was nice ..

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post #2233 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 12:57 PM
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Final show has Henry in FBI and Paige working for The Center.
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post #2234 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Paige is certainly getting devious. She basically set a trap for her parents! She lured them in with the prospect of gathering intelligence on what kind of job offer Pastor Tim would be most likely to accept, but she really wanted them to read what he wrote about her and to gauge their reactions.

It simultaneously seemed a bit passive-aggressive, in that she wanted her parents to see the diary for themselves, because they weren't taking it seriously in Paige's view, as well as a cry for help, in that by actively going out of her way to copy and show the diary to them, she is tacitly agreeing with Pastor Tim's assessment of her situation and wants her parents to know, "This is what you've done to me," as explained by a third party, so they can't accuse her of having invalid objections and overreacting like a spoiled kid, or anything of the sort.
I agree with this assessment. The problem with Paige is that she asked for it, then when she got what she asked for, she didn't like it. She was VERY aggressive with her parents to come clean with her. I guess they now wonder if it was the right decision to tell her, vs. just saying, "Mind your own business, little girl".

Paige wants somebody to blame from HER OWN ACTIONS. I think this is spot on writing, because that kind of behavior is typical for a person of her age group . Bottom line, she is really a danger to her parents and needs to be muzzled before things get out of hand. Given that they can't kill their own daughter, what other alternatives do they have? How about sending HER off to school? Maybe in Russia?

Frankly, I'm pretty much done with her and her story line.

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post #2235 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 01:31 PM
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Final show has Henry in FBI and Paige working for The Center.
Naw. A bleaker ending. Philip dead. Elizabeth repatriated back to the motherland where while she's out shopping for food runs into Martha. They strike up a conversation..
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post #2236 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 04:00 PM
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Well given the divergent opinions about the characters and story so far, 25% of this thread audience is bound to be disappointed with whatever the final resolution turns out to be.

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post #2237 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 04:02 PM
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I agree with this assessment. The problem with Paige is that she asked for it, then when she got what she asked for, she didn't like it. She was VERY aggressive with her parents to come clean with her. I guess they now wonder if it was the right decision to tell her, vs. just saying, "Mind your own business, little girl".

Paige wants somebody to blame from HER OWN ACTIONS. I think this is spot on writing, because that kind of behavior is typical for a person of her age group . Bottom line, she is really a danger to her parents and needs to be muzzled before things get out of hand. Given that they can't kill their own daughter, what other alternatives do they have? How about sending HER off to school? Maybe in Russia?

Frankly, I'm pretty much done with her and her story line.
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post #2238 of 2402 Old 05-13-2017, 08:35 PM
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My wife is a photographer with an MFA (and an anachronism-spotter). She said that in the 1980's, darkroom would have used metal rather than plastic developing tanks; also, she said, "Every darkroom I've ever seen is set up to operate from left to right; this one went in the opposite direction."

I just wonder how they found 1980s American cars that hadn't turned into rust piles
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post #2239 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 05:26 AM
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I agree with this assessment. The problem with Paige is that she asked for it, then when she got what she asked for, she didn't like it. She was VERY aggressive with her parents to come clean with her. I guess they now wonder if it was the right decision to tell her, vs. just saying, "Mind your own business, little girl".

Paige wants somebody to blame from HER OWN ACTIONS. I think this is spot on writing, because that kind of behavior is typical for a person of her age group . Bottom line, she is really a danger to her parents and needs to be muzzled before things get out of hand. Given that they can't kill their own daughter, what other alternatives do they have? How about sending HER off to school? Maybe in Russia?

Frankly, I'm pretty much done with her and her story line.
I can't disagree more. Paige is a really really good kid IMO. I only wish my kids were as well behaved and as enlightened as Paige. I wonder if the people blaming Paige (as opposed to the parents) for all of this actually have kids, or raised kids before. She has been put in a terrible, awful position by her parents actions, a position that requires her to act a certain way, lie, be friends with a pastor (sure, every teenager wants that, right?), and generally try to be perfect so that she doesn't accidentally rat out her parents. That is just a TREMENDOUS burden to place on a teenage girl. She seems to have handled the whole thing with tremendous maturity and grace IMO. If you think the way she acted with her parents was "very aggressive", we have different ideas of aggressive behavior in teenagers.

She took photos of words that she read, words that reinforced a question she had in her mind about what is normal, and about if she can be a normal kid. This little photo incident was really the only "acting out" I noticed. If that is the WORST thing this kid did , in THIS situation, then I think some folks need to re-examine the overall context here. Imagine any teenage girl today, who - at say 17 years old - is told (a) mommy and daddy are Russian spies (b) you can't see your boyfriend anymore (c) you have to be friends with a pastor indefinitely and be always on guard with him and everyone. In this situation, Paige has shown remarkable maturity, asked intelligent questions, and behaved very well IMO compared to almost any teenager I know. YMMV I guess..
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post #2240 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 07:35 AM
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You wonder if Paige is reading about what spies have to do, such as kill or act as honeypots.

Of course her parents are telling her a very whitewashed version of what they do.
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post #2241 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 11:30 AM
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My wife is a photographer with an MFA (and an anachronism-spotter). She said that in the 1980's, darkroom would have used metal rather than plastic developing tanks; also, she said, "Every darkroom I've ever seen is set up to operate from left to right; this one went in the opposite direction."

I just wonder how they found 1980s American cars that hadn't turned into rust piles
I used plastic tanks in the 70s and 80s and hated them. Mid 80s discovered stainless was tons better.

When taking film out of the cassette it is done in total darkness or a changing bag. No red light is safe. As to direction that depends on the layout of the darkroom.
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post #2242 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 11:35 AM
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My gut is that Henry is also going to learn the truth about his family somehow and it gets to Stan (accidentally?) and sets the final act in place. No way Henry goes back to USSR.

Morbidly speaking, what's the over/under on the number of Jennings surviving? I say two live: Henry in protective custody and Philip in prison. Sorry Paige and Elizabeth. But Elizabeth kills Stan first...
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post #2243 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 12:17 PM
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I can't disagree more. Paige is a really really good kid IMO. I only wish my kids were as well behaved and as enlightened as Paige. I wonder if the people blaming Paige (as opposed to the parents) for all of this actually have kids, or raised kids before. She has been put in a terrible, awful position by her parents actions, a position that requires her to act a certain way, lie, be friends with a pastor (sure, every teenager wants that, right?), and generally try to be perfect so that she doesn't accidentally rat out her parents. That is just a TREMENDOUS burden to place on a teenage girl. She seems to have handled the whole thing with tremendous maturity and grace IMO. If you think the way she acted with her parents was "very aggressive", we have different ideas of aggressive behavior in teenagers.

She took photos of words that she read, words that reinforced a question she had in her mind about what is normal, and about if she can be a normal kid. This little photo incident was really the only "acting out" I noticed. If that is the WORST thing this kid did , in THIS situation, then I think some folks need to re-examine the overall context here. Imagine any teenage girl today, who - at say 17 years old - is told (a) mommy and daddy are Russian spies (b) you can't see your boyfriend anymore (c) you have to be friends with a pastor indefinitely and be always on guard with him and everyone. In this situation, Paige has shown remarkable maturity, asked intelligent questions, and behaved very well IMO compared to almost any teenager I know. YMMV I guess..
Surprisingly, I agree with much of what you said. Paige had no idea what she was getting herself into. It is way too much to put on a kid of her age. They never should have told her in the first place, but what would have been the outcome of that? Paige just getting more and more insistent. more emotionally out of control, and that would have drawn attention to the parents, with more adults asking questions about this double life they lead (even with Paige "under control" the pastor thinks there is sexual abuse!). Rock, meet hard place.

No, I do not think she is a bad kid (I've had some tangential experience with that concept), but her insistence on knowing about her parent's business was the inception of this entire situation. In reality, most kids that age want nothing to do with their parents anymore and could care less what they do, except where it restricts the kid's freedom. Paige is a different kind of kid, smarter, more observant, and now she is paying the price.

The diary is a cry for help to her parents, but the secret is already out there and things can never go back to what they were. So, what's the final outcome of this mess? Somebody is gonna die, perhaps more than one somebody. High price to pay for satisfying the curiosity of a child.

So, yeah, the tone of my prior post was to put the blame on the victim. That was, admittedly, a limited viewpoint and reflected my frustration with the teenager-focused plot. I just want this story line to go away so the focus can be on the adults again.
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post #2244 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 01:58 PM
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Really nice post there, RayGuy.

Rewinding to a couple seasons ago, Paige had been confused and frustrated by the mysterious "not adding up" nature of her family life for quite some time by then. So at that point when she confronted her parents for the truth, she couldn't imagine anything worse than not knowing. Turns out, there was something worse. But it's way easier in hindsight to understand there could turn out to be a worse outcome than not knowing the truth.

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post #2245 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 02:30 PM
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I wonder if Pastor Tim will prove instrumental in setting up the final season. For instance, if he puts two and two together and suspects that the Jennings have used their connections to get him his new job offer, he will probably not be pleased that they're trying to get rid of him, in which case he or Alice might threaten some drastic action (e.g. exposing the tape), in which case Philip and Elizabeth might be forced to kill him to maintain their cover. Paige will then learn the extent of what her parents really do, and then...
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post #2246 of 2402 Old 05-14-2017, 08:41 PM
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What I found most interesting about this episode is how far Paige has now acclimated to the "family business". She hears Pastor Tim blatantly lying to her face, based on what she read in his diary. At that point she decides to photograph the diary and take her folks up on the offer to get rid of him.

Sad situation with Oleg. Much emotion conveyed without a single word spoken at the dinner table. How different his life is now that he's back home. What does the KGB have on him?

And the real Russian Orthodox marriage ceremony was nice to see. Even uber-atheist Elizabeth enjoyed making their "business relationship" finally permanent. Wonder if they'll tell Claudia?
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post #2247 of 2402 Old 05-15-2017, 07:58 AM
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Surprisingly, I agree with much of what you said. Paige had no idea what she was getting herself into. It is way too much to put on a kid of her age. They never should have told her in the first place, but what would have been the outcome of that? Paige just getting more and more insistent. more emotionally out of control, and that would have drawn attention to the parents, with more adults asking questions about this double life they lead (even with Paige "under control" the pastor thinks there is sexual abuse!). Rock, meet hard place.

No, I do not think she is a bad kid (I've had some tangential experience with that concept), but her insistence on knowing about her parent's business was the inception of this entire situation. In reality, most kids that age want nothing to do with their parents anymore and could care less what they do, except where it restricts the kid's freedom. Paige is a different kind of kid, smarter, more observant, and now she is paying the price.

The diary is a cry for help to her parents, but the secret is already out there and things can never go back to what they were. So, what's the final outcome of this mess? Somebody is gonna die, perhaps more than one somebody. High price to pay for satisfying the curiosity of a child.

So, yeah, the tone of my prior post was to put the blame on the victim. That was, admittedly, a limited viewpoint and reflected my frustration with the teenager-focused plot. I just want this story line to go away so the focus can be on the adults again.
I see what you are saying. I just find it hard to place a lot of fault in Paige overall. In reference to what you were saying, IMO somebody was "gonna die" anyway eventually, no matter what Paige did. At least that's what I saw coming down the road. With this line of work on this show many of them end up dead. Missing another opportunity to come clean with Paige about the grain just reinforced my negative feelings about the parenting of these 2 (though mostly Elizabeth). They again lied (at least through omission), and were told they were heroes by Paige. I do hear you, but I put all the blame squarely on the parents so far (and more with Elizabeth) ..

Good stuff though
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post #2248 of 2402 Old 05-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Earlier i thought P&E would ultimately agree to a professional separation out of love for their children, but the tedious wedding scene diminishes that possibility.

The idea of E and Martha striking a conversation at GUM is a creative one from fpileggi. My guess is Martha's coming home, dead or alive.

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post #2249 of 2402 Old 05-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I see what you are saying. I just find it hard to place a lot of fault in Paige overall. In reference to what you were saying, IMO somebody was "gonna die" anyway eventually, no matter what Paige did. At least that's what I saw coming down the road. With this line of work on this show many of them end up dead. Missing another opportunity to come clean with Paige about the grain just reinforced my negative feelings about the parenting of these 2 (though mostly Elizabeth). They again lied (at least through omission), and were told they were heroes by Paige. I do hear you, but I put all the blame squarely on the parents so far (and more with Elizabeth) ..

Good stuff though
You are right, there will be more death. My point was that some of the folks that will end up dead due to the Paige situation would not have had to die otherwise.

Clearly, you can't be a good parent and a good spy at the same time. That is, I think, the whole point of this plot line. Philip, via EST and his nature, is wanting to be a good parent above being a good spy. Elizabeth is a spy first, even wanting to bring her own child into the family business.

This family is on the edge of being torn apart. Who is gonna die? Who is going to facilitate that death? Who is responsible? Looking for easy answers may be a futile exercise.

That's what makes this show so good, black and white is shaded with loads of gray.
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post #2250 of 2402 Old 05-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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If the Centre discovers the full depth of Pastor Tim's knowledge and involvement regarding the Jennings family- his prospects for a happy out of the country mission and eventual return aren't too great.

Things happen in the jungle you know, might as well just book him a one-way ticket and be done with it
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