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post #901 of 4793 Old 03-30-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Lewis is just finally maturing in life and driving experience.
I hope so.
I like the kid, but he has appeared immature in the past.wink.gif

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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Doesn't change the problem, which is that the drivers should race as they see fit and not by what their team politics dictate. The only 'order' should be that they not wreck a team mate, but that's a given more than an order.

This is a much bigger problem in F1 than the other series, IMO, and it directly impacts the quality of the racing.
If racing teams have 2 or more cars competing, there will be some kind of restraint put on the drivers by the teams.

There has always been team orders or team strategy in racing, it's one of the worst kept secrets in the sport.
Does anyone remember Dale Earnhardt Sr., on the day he was killed, protecting Waltrip?

Steve Matchett has said F1 teams, before the "legalization" of team orders, had covert signals to their drivers.

There is a reason why we have "teams," and not Vettel Racing,or Alonso Racing, etc..... wink.gif

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post #902 of 4793 Old 03-30-2013, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

I hope so.
I like the kid, but he has appeared immature in the past.wink.gif
If racing teams have 2 or more cars competing, there will be some kind of restraint put on the drivers by the teams.

There has always been team orders or team strategy in racing, it's one of the worst kept secrets in the sport.
Does anyone remember Dale Earnhardt Sr., on the day he was killed, protecting Waltrip?

Steve Matchett has said F1 teams, before the "legalization" of team orders, had covert signals to their drivers.

There is a reason why we have "teams," and not Vettel Racing,or Alonso Racing, etc..... wink.gif
Exactly,that's why it's a team sport.If your boss tells you to do something or if you are the QB in the NFL,and you don't do what you are told,are you not to get grief about it?It seems pretty simple.You are not above the team,like it or not.Lets move on.
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post #903 of 4793 Old 03-30-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stevew24963 View Post

Exactly,that's why it's a team sport.If your boss tells you to do something or if you are the QB in the NFL,and you don't do what you are told,are you not to get grief about it?It seems pretty simple.You are not above the team,like it or not.Lets move on.
Touchy touchy...good thing you have a great car in your picture. wink.gif

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post #904 of 4793 Old 03-30-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

There has always been team orders or team strategy in racing, it's one of the worst kept secrets in the sport.
Does anyone remember Dale Earnhardt Sr., on the day he was killed, protecting Waltrip?

The Daytona 500 isn't even close to the same thing as team orders. Dale was blocking Marlin, but his drivers were racing for the victory. I don't believe Dale told the team to tell his drivers to hold position.

Actually I can't understand all of this Vettel/Webber controversy. If the team and constructor championship are the most important goal, then who cares who won. RB still was first and second. They got maximum points, so mission accomplished.


Bond,
This will be my last response on Ferrari's history. I do count Schumi and his wins and championships. The difference is that it was Schumi who turned Ferrari around. If he had gone to McLaren or Williams, then Ferrari probably would have stayed an also ran. I think Michael should be given more credit considering even Prost couldn't turn the truck into a great car or make the team professional.

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post #905 of 4793 Old 03-30-2013, 09:41 PM
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It wasn't just Shumi that turned Ferrari around, it was who he brought from Benetton.Rory Byrn and Ross Brawn.
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post #906 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

The Daytona 500 isn't even close to the same thing as team orders. Dale was blocking Marlin, but his drivers were racing for the victory. I don't believe Dale told the team to tell his drivers to hold position.

Actually I can't understand all of this Vettel/Webber controversy. If the team and constructor championship are the most important goal, then who cares who won. RB still was first and second. They got maximum points, so mission accomplished.


Bond,
This will be my last response on Ferrari's history. I do count Schumi and his wins and championships. The difference is that it was Schumi who turned Ferrari around. If he had gone to McLaren or Williams, then Ferrari probably would have stayed an also ran. I think Michael should be given more credit considering even Prost couldn't turn the truck into a great car or make the team professional.
So much for F1 being a team sport. rolleyes.gif If Schumacher is some kind of God why isnt Mercedes winning championships?

Edit: I just reread your post. I originally thought that you stated that you DONT count the Schumacher years because it was all him and nothing to do with Ferrari. When Schu went to Ferrari there was obviously a big change. And Schu deserves a lot of that credit. Exactly how much I dont know. But he didnt do it alone. If you want to think that the only reason they were winning is because of him and no matter where he went it would have been the same result then go ahead. I think its pretty nieve and you just dont like Ferrari.
Which brings me to another subject. Who do you like? I havent heard you say that you like any team in particular. You just keep harping on how Ferrari doesnt deserve the respect that they get because Schu carried the whole organization through 6 championships. Hell, even Schu isnt crazy enough to claim something like that.

Oh.. And also. That truck was runner up in the Constructors title 7 of 15 years in between Ferraris Constructors Championships.
And Prost wasnt interested in helping any team. All he wanted to do was win 1 more drivers title before he retired. Thats why he jumped ship at Ferrari and went to Williams when they had the computer controlled car that even Senna couldnt beat which was so unfair that they outlawed it the next year. So Prost retired.

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post #907 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 04:50 AM
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I am surprised to see Schumacher's racing ability and accomplishments and what ne did for Ferrari questioned in an F1 thread! Really?

Schumacher=Respect, dude is a legend...even in carting.
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post #908 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I am surprised to see Schumacher's racing ability and accomplishments and what ne did for Ferrari questioned in an F1 thread! Really?

Schumacher=Respect, dude is a legend...even in carting.
Im not questioning his racing ability or accomplishments. But Im not overstating them either. As for what he did FOR Ferrari is debatable. But everyone knows what he did WITH Ferrari.

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post #909 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 09:33 AM
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It's all "Debatable". No doubt he had good cars and mechanics to go along with his amazing career. Just goes to show regardless of what the racer thinks, it is a team sport big time! I think Ferrari has the drivers this year, now their Engineers and mechanics need to step up.

What is not debatable is that Schumacher is a legend and deserves much respect from F1 fans.
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post #910 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 09:52 AM
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Home » Publications » U.K. newspapers » The Scotsman » Jul - Sep 1999 » September 13, 1999 »The Shu and Mika had some epic battles but,sadly ,this is how most ended up.

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Hakkinen in tears after Monza slip-up
The Scotsman
The Scotsman
September 13, 1999 | Copyright

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MIKA Hakkinen, Formula One's defending world champion, was left weeping in the bushes at Monza yesterday after a basic error cost him victory in the Italian Grand Prix.

The Finn was leading before he skidded out on the 30th lap, handing the race to Germany's Heinz-Harald Frentzen and forfeiting his outright lead in the drivers' championship.

Having recovered his composure after crying in anguish behind a hedge and throwing his gloves to the ground in frustration, Hakkinen admitted it was his mistake.

He said he had accidentally selected first gear instead of second at the entry to the chicane. "The rear wheels partially locked up and I spun off with a stalled engine," …
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post #911 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

What is not debatable is that Schumacher is a legend and deserves much respect from F1 fans.
Agreed. He certainly has mine.

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post #912 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Actually I can't understand all of this Vettel/Webber controversy. If the team and constructor championship are the most important goal, then who cares who won. RB still was first and second. They got maximum points, so mission accomplished.

Seriously?? The fans frickin' care about who wins because they want to see their driver(s) race for the win. I really can't understand the support for the corporate way of racing here, because we're all fans. We should all be disappointed that F1 is run this way.
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post #913 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by stevew24963 View Post

Exactly,that's why it's a team sport.If your boss tells you to do something or if you are the QB in the NFL,and you don't do what you are told,are you not to get grief about it?It seems pretty simple.You are not above the team,like it or not.Lets move on.

Please stop acting like the thread police, it's a good discussion between races.
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post #914 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Please stop acting like the thread police, it's a good discussion between races.
lol I wonder how many people know what FUBAR stands for.

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post #915 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:19 AM
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Happy Easter everyone! smile.gif

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post #916 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by stevew24963 View Post

Exactly,that's why it's a team sport.If your boss tells you to do something or if you are the QB in the NFL,and you don't do what you are told,are you not to get grief about it?It seems pretty simple.You are not above the team,like it or not.Lets move on.

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Touchy touchy...good thing you have a great car in your picture. wink.gif

"Touchy touchy,' indeed." If stevew24963 thinks our discussion of the delicious ambiguity of whether Vettel or team management has the high ground in the Red Bull v. Vettel debate is likely to end soon, he has another think coming. Still, he does have a great car in his picture.smile.gif

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Originally Posted by oink View Post

If racing teams have 2 or more cars competing, there will be some kind of restraint put on the drivers by the teams.

There has always been team orders or team strategy in racing, it's one of the worst kept secrets in the sport.
Does anyone remember Dale Earnhardt Sr., on the day he was killed, protecting Waltrip?

Steve Matchett has said F1 teams, before the "legalization" of team orders, had covert signals to their drivers.

There is a reason why we have "teams," and not Vettel Racing,or Alonso Racing, etc..... wink.gif

oink -- As you know, I respect your judgment but disagree with you on this one, so don't take too seriously my earlier post calling the posts criticizing Vettel for ignoring team orders, "anguished vapors."smile.gif Our difference of opinion here is a great illustration of why I find the Red Bull v. Vettel discussion so much fun because there is a lot to be said for both sides of the issue.
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post #917 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:30 AM
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I think they should make Vettel sit out the rest of the season. cool.gif

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post #918 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:32 AM
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I think they should make Vettel sit out the rest of the season. cool.gif

Hahhahaha, let me catch my breath…… hahahahahaha

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post #919 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

It's all "Debatable". No doubt he had good cars and mechanics to go along with his amazing career. Just goes to show regardless of what the racer thinks, it is a team sport big time! I think Ferrari has the drivers this year, now their Engineers and mechanics need to step up.

What is not debatable is that Schumacher is a legend and deserves much respect from F1 fans.

I respect Schumi for his accomplishments, but I wouldn't say "much." Afterall, he also cheated when he felt he could get away with it, and even got a full season DSQ for doing it dangerously.

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post #920 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:38 AM
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I respect Schumi for his accomplishments, but I wouldn't say "much." Afterall, he also cheated when he felt he could get away with it, and even got a full season DSQ for doing it dangerously.
I was thinking something along those lines too when she posted "Schumacher=respect" but I didnt want to go there.

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post #921 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:39 AM
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Hahhahaha, let me catch my breath…… hahahahahaha
RB fan? biggrin.gif

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post #922 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Please stop acting like the thread police, it's a good discussion between races.
I am by no means being the "thread police".I am enjoying this debate,but like politics each has their own view on the situation.BTW,gwsat it is a great car.And no,I don't think this issue will end soon,there is a long way to go this season and a lot will happen ,I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't have an effect on the series by the time we hit Austin.BTW any one planing to go?I've been to every F1 Indy race and if you are a fan you need to see F1 live.It will bring tears to your eyes the first time you hear them,trust me.
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post #923 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:56 AM
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[Happy Easter all,enjoy a non race weekend.
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post #924 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stevew24963 View Post

I am by no means being the "thread police".I am enjoying this debate,but like politics each has their own view on the situation.BTW,gwsat it is a great car.And no,I don't think this issue will end soon,there is a long way to go this season and a lot will happen ,I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't have an effect on the series by the time we hit Austin.BTW any one planing to go?I've been to every F1 Indy race and if you are a fan you need to see F1 live.It will bring tears to your eyes the first time you hear them,trust me.
I wish. Ive seen most kinds of racing but not F1. Its freakin expensive. I have a brother that lives in Italy and isnt really much of a fan. He has seen them at Monaco and Monza. I hate him.

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post #925 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:00 AM
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I wish. Ive seen most kinds of racing but not F1. Its freakin expensive. I have a brother that lives in Italy and isnt really much of a fan. He has seen them at Monaco and Monza. I hate him.

Me too, been to Daytona 500, been to Indy car races and sports car races and drag races, but never made it to an F1 race. Maybe one day before i die.......rolleyes.gif

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post #926 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:32 AM
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Me too, been to Daytona 500, been to Indy car races and sports car races and drag races, but never made it to an F1 race. Maybe one day before i die.......rolleyes.gif

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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I wish. Ive seen most kinds of racing but not F1. Its freakin expensive. I have a brother that lives in Italy and isnt really much of a fan. He has seen them at Monaco and Monza. I hate him.
Monaco and Spa are on my "bucket list"along with the 24hours of LeMans.Indy was quite cheap a 3 day gen admin ticket was $75.00.But had a place to stay.Only prob. was the 20 hour drive from South Fla.Opting to do MOTOGP at Indy this year,F1 Austin maybe next year.
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post #927 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:40 AM
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if you are a fan you need to see F1 live.It will bring tears to your eyes the first time you hear them,trust me.

And give you goose bumps all over! It's just like top fuel and funny cars.......words can't even begin to describe the live experience. When we went to the F1 race at Indy in 07, the guys that I went with asked me if I wanted ear plugs. I asked them if they were crazy, those engines were music to my ears! That was fine for practice and quali, but come race time I actually gave in and used them, after the start of course! biggrin.gif
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post #928 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:41 AM
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Monaco and Spa are on my "bucket list"along with the 24hours of LeMans.Indy was quite cheap a 3 day gen admin ticket was $75.00.But had a place to stay.Only prob. was the 20 hour drive from South Fla.Opting to do MOTOGP at Indy this year,F1 Austin maybe next year.
Id love to see MotoGP live. Its great racing. F1 of motorcycles. Whats not to like? smile.gif

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post #929 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:50 AM
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Indy was quite cheap a 3 day gen admin ticket was $75.00.

Yeah, we paid like $275 for seats in the grand stands, half way up, right at the starting line and across from the pits. Austin has priced everything way too expensive. They want $250 just to get in and sit on the grass! It was $1200 for a good seat this past year. I just can't justify it. $2400 for 2 seats, 2k for hotel room for 4 nights, 1600 for flights. 6k for a race weekend, without food or nightly entertainment cost? No thanks.
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post #930 of 4793 Old 03-31-2013, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Id love to see MotoGP live. Its great racing. F1 of motorcycles. Whats not to like? smile.gif
I missed the past 3 years ,but the best race was the 125 race.Those little bikes haul a$$,and there is little braking.Sadly all 2 stroke bikes are gone.Still the MOTOGP bikes have quite the shriek to them,very entertaining,no doubt.
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