VIKINGS on History - Page 28 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
He seemed to know Floki couldn't take Paris, but allowed him to try anyway.
The results, of course, were devastating.


I don't think much of Rag's military skills...
He had no idea how strong Paris defense was. He wouldn't put himself or his family in the frontline if he know that it was doomed.

As for his military skills, I guess from a Viking standpoint he was a genius.
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post #812 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post


He had no idea how strong Paris defense was.
I recall several instances of close-ups of Ragnar looking extremely unsure of their endeavour after seeing the walls of Paris and Floki's cure for them.


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He wouldn't put himself or his family in the frontline if he know that it was doomed.
Logically, you're right, of course.

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As for his military skills, I guess from a Viking standpoint he was a genius.
Perhaps so, but somehow, I doubt it.
When it was obvious they couldn't get in he continued to throw bodies at it, as though hell-bent to turn fiasco into folly.

Grunts don't take kindly to a lack of success.

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post #813 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 06:15 AM
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Since that is what really happened with the coffin not sure they could of changed it that much from history.
I guess I should thank my schools poor Viking education for not spoiling the show.
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post #814 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Perhaps so, but somehow, I doubt it.
When it was obvious they couldn't get in he continued to throw bodies at it, as though hell-bent to turn fiasco into folly.

Grunts don't take kindly to a lack of success.

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post #815 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 06:48 AM
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I guess I should thank my schools poor Viking education for not spoiling the show.
LOL.
Seriously though....is there a Viking story/legend about infiltrating a fortified position in that manner?

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post #816 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 10:47 AM
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I rather liked the finale. Vikings were raiders, not soldiers and Ragnar is a warrior/king, not a great general. They learned on the fly and this was one of the early seiges. Mostly, from what I've read, Dark Age warfare wasn't all that organized. Charlemagne, grandfather to last night's Emperor Charles, won many large engagements throughout Europe, but his sons and heirs weren't much. Long story short, the Viks did win and whether by the trickery relayed by the show or some other combination strength/tricks or sleight of hand vs. French weakness, they did sack Paris.

All hail Rollo, Duke of Normandy. He wasn't Ragnar's brother. It was 100 years or more later, but he did marry the royal family, did use his Vik troops to establish his Dukedom and did protect France from other Viks. His great (great,great???) grandson conquered merry old England in 1066. Aptly named William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy and then King of England.
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post #817 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
LOL.
Seriously though....is there a Viking story/legend about infiltrating a fortified position in that manner?
I may read some more on that soon, dunno, would be spoilers for upcoming seasons. I read somewhere that Bjorn pulled a stunt like that - claimed he had a deathbed conversion and wanted a Christian funeral, this is Italy I think. Part of the sailing an ocean with no waves thing perhaps. I haven't been to the Mediterranean but I'd be real surprised if there's no waves.

As soon as they mentioned Rags wanting a Christian funeral, I knew what was up. I liked the episode all in all. Fimmel really pulled the church scene off well. And I REALLY enjoyed Rollo listening to the princess's tirade and then coming forward with 'Javoo salut' (sp. of course) and a big grin.

And that bit where Sinric demurred on translating her stream of insults. Good stuff. No doubt Rollo caught the spirit of her discourse and imagined himself taming her proud behind in pagan fashion. Maybe add some shrooms to the mix.

You have to wonder how the french could expect Rollo to be their agent against Ragnar. More likely it will just add to Viking power. No doubt the land in question will be the beginning of Normandy. My first thought was that the small band of warriors would be annihilated by the home team in short order. Get enough archers surrounding their fortress and they'd pick them off.

Could be Floki's small tirade about Athleston while Rags was in the coffin removed any doubt about who killed him.
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post #818 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post
All hail Rollo, Duke of Normandy. He wasn't Ragnar's brother. It was 100 years or more later, but he did marry the royal family, did use his Vik troops to establish his Dukedom and did protect France from other Viks. His great (great,great???) grandson conquered merry old England in 1066. Aptly named William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy and then King of England.
That also makes some sense, as with way more good acreage than he could have had back home, why not protect his stronghold? And as you say, it did happen. My study on it is sparse.

I had read that Rollo came long after Ragnar. They're borrowing from known history and taking liberties with it, of course.
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post #819 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 12:59 PM
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I haven't been to the Mediterranean but I'd be real surprised if there's no waves.
There are waves....although maybe not like the North Sea.

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Fimmel really pulled the church scene off well. And I REALLY enjoyed Rollo listening to the princess's tirade and then coming forward with 'Javoo salut' (sp. of course) and a big grin.

And that bit where Sinric demurred on translating her stream of insults. Good stuff. No doubt Rollo caught the spirit of her discourse
Good stuff, indeed.

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imagined himself taming her proud behind in pagan fashion. Maybe add some shrooms to the mix.
Ha!
Maybe that's it....

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You have to wonder how the french could expect Rollo to be their agent against Ragnar. More likely it will just add to Viking power. No doubt the land in question will be the beginning of Normandy.
Agreed.

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My first thought was that the small band of warriors would be annihilated by the home team in short order. Get enough archers surrounding their fortress and they'd pick them off.
I found it odd the Viks appeared to camp directly under the wall.
Easy pickings for guys sporting crossbows with iron-tipped bolts.

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Could be Floki's small tirade about Athleston while Rags was in the coffin removed any doubt about who killed him.
I don't recall exactly what he said...

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post #820 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post
LOL.
Seriously though....is there a Viking story/legend about infiltrating a fortified position in that manner?
Yes, that is how someone (won't spoil anything) did it to take a city from within.

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post #821 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 05:24 PM
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Yes, that is how someone (won't spoil anything) did it to take a city from within.
I guess the French didn't pay much attention to their Homer....

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post #822 of 840 Old 04-24-2015, 06:15 PM
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I guess the French didn't pay much attention to their Homer....
"Doh!!!"
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post #823 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 04:33 AM
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I guess the French didn't pay much attention to their Homer....
Even worse, they assumed their enemy didn't.
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post #824 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 09:43 AM
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"Doh!!!"
Nice one, Sir.



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Even worse, they assumed their enemy didn't.
True.

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post #825 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 11:12 AM
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You'd think Rags would have told Floki & Rollo as well as Bjorn. After all, Floki had to build the boat-coffin and there had to be airholes or at the very least, a loose-fitting lid. Floki could have made that sucker more airtight and it could have finished Rags off for good. And Rollo needed to know because, you know... bros, man. And Lagurtha -- his Shield Madien. She should have been in on it too. And, of course, his key warriors who would be leading the charge. They needed to be prepared to fight, raid, & plunder, not attend a funeral.

Heck, he should have just told everybody. I would have. Because I'm cool like that.

Of course, now Rollo is apparently going to betray Rags for a second time. Loved his mischievous grin at the end after his future bride had eviscerated him in "Franco".
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post #826 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 11:18 AM
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You'd think Rags would have told Floki & Rollo as well as Bjorn. After all, Floki had to build the boat-coffin and there had to be airholes or at the very least, a loose-fitting lid. Floki could have made that sucker more airtight and it could have finished Rags off for good. And Rollo needed to know because, you know... bros, man. And Lagurtha -- his Shield Madien. She should have been in on it too. And, of course, his key warriors who would be leading the charge. They needed to be prepared to fight, raid, & plunder, not attend a funeral.

Heck, he should have just told everybody. I would have. Because I'm cool like that.
First of all..."cool," you're not (I gotta be honest here).
Secondly, if Rags had done that then the viewers at home wouldn't have been surprised with his jack-in-the-box trick.
Hey, good TV was important even back then....



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Of course, now Rollo is apparently going to betray Rags for a second time.
I hope not, it would be quite a cop-out by the writers.
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post #827 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 05:04 PM
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So, the French were just monumentally tricked, resulting in Paris being sacked. What do they do in response? Immediately employ the same tactic and bribe another Viking? Stupid much?
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post #828 of 840 Old 04-25-2015, 10:36 PM
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You'd think Rags would have told Floki & Rollo as well as Bjorn. After all, Floki had to build the boat-coffin and there had to be airholes or at the very least, a loose-fitting lid. Floki could have made that sucker more airtight and it could have finished Rags off for good. And Rollo needed to know because, you know... bros, man. And Lagurtha -- his Shield Madien. She should have been in on it too. And, of course, his key warriors who would be leading the charge. They needed to be prepared to fight, raid, & plunder, not attend a funeral.

Heck, he should have just told everybody. I would have. Because I'm cool like that.

Of course, now Rollo is apparently going to betray Rags for a second time. Loved his mischievous grin at the end after his future bride had eviscerated him in "Franco".
With everyone believing that Rags had actually died, it made for a more believable scenario for the French. Everybody acted the part w/o trying. I susect that Bjorn made certain their were airholes. And that the pall bearers were in on the scheme. Could be Bjorn and those guys kept guard around the tent while Rags came out to emtpy his bowels and move about in the day or two leading up to the event. I think I noticed Rollo doing a slight nod to Rags and he returning it when he walked by him slumped in Bjorn's arms - sort of a 'well played' acknowledgment.

I agree that intrigue with Rollo has been put into the mix again. In some ways, it's not as personal a potential betrayal as with Jarl Borg as Borg was going to actively try to kill and usurp Rags and Horrick.

Those days had an element to life that is long gone these days. No way could Rollo pick up the phone and bounce the idea off of Rags.

I predict that Rollo and Rags will come to an agreement, that Rags and gang can use a remote part of Normandy as a staging ground for raids elsewhere. Not sure this is backed up by history however.
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post #829 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 12:08 AM
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So, the French were just monumentally tricked, resulting in Paris being sacked. What do they do in response? Immediately employ the same tactic and bribe another Viking? Stupid much?
Well, just so you know...the French King went down in history as King Numbnuts.



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I predict that Rollo and Rags will come to an agreement, that Rags and gang can use a remote part of Normandy as a staging ground for raids elsewhere. Not sure this is backed up by history however.
I leaning that way too....

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post #830 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 02:15 AM
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I found it odd the Viks appeared to camp directly under the wall.
Easy pickings for guys sporting crossbows with iron-tipped bolts.

I don't recall exactly what he said...
No, I think they're camping maybe a quarter to half mile away, in the spot where Rollo makes those longing looks at the spires in the distance. Those crude shelters just outside the gate are likely for a flea market sort of commerce for those who come and go.

Floki said approx: 'So, I built the boat that brought you fame and now I've built the boat that will take you to your heaven.' And then sarcastically: 'Give my regards to Athlestan by the way. You betrayed us. You betrayed your heritage. You betrayed me. I loved you more than anyone. I loved you more than that priest ever loved you. But you always thought, it's just Floki, he's just a fool.'

Basically a bunch of jilted sweetheart rambling. And who knows, maybe Helga told Rags as she didn't want the burden of being the only one who knew.

One thing that was a bit odd about the coffin scenes was the fact that Rags would have needed to refrain from coughing and he was just recently making a good racket in that regard.
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post #831 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
You'd think Rags would have told Floki & Rollo as well as Bjorn. After all, Floki had to build the boat-coffin and there had to be airholes or at the very least, a loose-fitting lid. Floki could have made that sucker more airtight and it could have finished Rags off for good.
Ragnar had of course backup plan in case coffin was airtight.
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post #832 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 07:50 AM
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One thing that was a bit odd about the coffin scenes was the fact that Rags would have needed to refrain from coughing and he was just recently making a good racket in that regard.
Yeah, I believe he told the camp medic before he went in, "Doc, you gotta give me something to stop this coffin!"
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post #833 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 08:15 AM
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And as for the Med, it can be very rough with a little wind. Sailed the Med in '62 onboard a US Navy Cruiser
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post #834 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 09:53 AM
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No, I think they're camping maybe a quarter to half mile away, in the spot where Rollo makes those longing looks at the spires in the distance. Those crude shelters just outside the gate are likely for a flea market sort of commerce for those who come and go.
Ah, OK.



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Floki said approx: 'So, I built the boat that brought you fame and now I've built the boat that will take you to your heaven.' And then sarcastically: 'Give my regards to Athlestan by the way. You betrayed us. You betrayed your heritage. You betrayed me. I loved you more than anyone. I loved you more than that priest ever loved you. But you always thought, it's just Floki, he's just a fool.'

Basically a bunch of jilted sweetheart rambling. And who knows, maybe Helga told Rags as she didn't want the burden of being the only one who knew.
He had to have suspected Floki initially.
The guy was always bitching about Athlestan.

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One thing that was a bit odd about the coffin scenes was the fact that Rags would have needed to refrain from coughing and he was just recently making a good racket in that regard.
You're right.



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Ragnar had of course backup plan in case coffin was airtight.
LOL.



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Yeah, I believe he told the camp medic before he went in, "Doc, you gotta give me something to stop this coffin!"
Wit like that is forbidden around here, sir.
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post #835 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 12:28 PM
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Ragnar had of course backup plan in case coffin was airtight.
HAH! Those dang Swedes had the Ikea wrench even back then! Who woulda thought! (I'm a quarter Swedish, BTW. The rest is Norweigan, Danish, Scottish, and Irish)
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post #836 of 840 Old 04-26-2015, 12:31 PM
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Yeah, I believe he told the camp medic before he went in, "Doc, you gotta give me something to stop this coffin!"
HAH! Maybe they had some sort of mushroom that would cause one to mimic death. I've often considered that Torsten managed to stay very still when they did that ruse of Floki poisoning him for Horrick's benefit.
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I've often considered that Torsten managed to stay very still when they did that ruse of Floki poisoning him for Horrick's benefit.
Forgot about that.

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post #838 of 840 Old 04-27-2015, 03:31 PM
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So, the French were just monumentally tricked, resulting in Paris being sacked. What do they do in response? Immediately employ the same tactic and bribe another Viking? Stupid much?
I dunno. I actually think it an effective tactic. If you give them gold, they can go off to their lair and enjoy their booty. If you give them land and a marriage into the royal family, you have drawn them into the fold. Rollo will have reason to maintain the power structure that has given him power. More power and wealth than he was likely to achieve in Kattegut.

I suspect the count did have something to do with the idea. Getting Rollo and his men as allies would be about like drafting Michael Jordan and all of the Chicago Bulls for one's expansion team. I also suspect he suggested to the King that Rollo's genes would enhance the royal line.

For Rollo's part, he had seen how hard it is to breach the defenses of Paris. A repeat of the Trojan horse tactic was not going to be likely. They were facing a winter of possible sniping attacks on a rough bit of land upon which they were essentially camping out. Instead they will gain security and far greater resources with which to sustain themselves. I suspect most all of his men will go along with the idea as they will be high mucky mucks in their new Earldom compared to back home.

Rollo was taking in the grandeur of the palace architecture as he strode in to meet the king. He sees that his stock has taken a sudden spike. The princess will come around. I predict that Rollo will be near fluent in the Frankian language when he next sees Ragnar.
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post #839 of 840 Old Yesterday, 03:45 PM
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Per MH there will be a confrontation about Rollo's apparent defection (again) next season. However, I really don't see a need for it. By giving Rollo a territory and income through taxes. He obligates him to protect him against all threats, but his plate will be full. Charles may have had a Duke or other satrap in the area already, but their are likely 50 - 100 barons or counts in the region that need to be put in check or subdued because there were no guaranteed revenue streams or military support for the crown. They were all fighting each other and every other bordering lordship. If you read any history of the times, Kings, dukes, etc. were constantly fighting internal rebellion as well as foreign wars. What he basically gave to Rollo was a license to go kick some ass, take over a territory and come when I call. For this you get my bad tempered daughter and all you can hold...as long as I get my cut...also again, come when I call. Especially against other Viks.

Rollo did. He spent the next 20 years kicking local barons asses, some Vikings and setup a mini-kingdom in Normandy. He supported who was on the throne when he felt like it. Cuz, what were they gonna do? Everyone's troops were always tied up fighting somewhere. As long as you maintained the revenue stream and helped out sometimes, you were considered loyal. In actuality, Rollo was an entrepeneur (sp?). Though he converted, one story relates that on his deathbed, he repudiated Christ and sacrificed all the preists of Rouen (his captial) to Odin. Great joke, huh.

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post #840 of 840 Old Today, 11:11 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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I love this show. I binged watched it over the last several weeks to get caught up. I can't believe I didn't know much about this show until someone pointed it out. I was hooked after a few episodes.
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