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post #721 of 838 Old 06-08-2014, 10:46 PM
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Oh hell no! Stop this direction right now. That assessment is spot on. When that character appeared I completely disconnected. It did remind me then of an actress playing a role. The other thing it did was remind me of Tracy Ullman's character from her old show on Fox. It was also telegraphed that Tony and Felix would kiss.
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post #722 of 838 Old 06-08-2014, 11:50 PM
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Agree with all the above posts, the Tony character did not work for me at all, and the way the character was written/acted seemed very ragged, as if all the pieces of creating a fluid, believable character were not completed, parts were missing as it were(no pun intended). A character in a CGI creation still in the wireframe stage, incomplete and not "fleshed" out.
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post #723 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 12:04 AM
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"This is not well wrapped!"

IMHO, That line alone made up for any Tony issues. I had to spew and pause for a long hearty laugh there. smile.gif
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post #724 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 08:42 AM
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That was a funny line. My opinion is she tried to play the character like all the other actresses playing a woman thinking this is how men act. I'm not into He/She's so that was a turnoff. I've seen some women like that. For example, when she's trying to show off his/her "manhood". First of all guys don't do that in front of other guys if they did isn't that an announcement? The "shock value" didn't work for me. Hope the show recovers.
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post #725 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 08:50 AM
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Loved the actress but that wasn't a very convincing "man", sorry... not with those legs... with the testosterone shots "he's" taking they should have plenty of hair..

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post #726 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 09:21 AM
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Well, it appears we have finally discovered the Achilles heel of Tatiana's acting talents. tongue.gif She has a difficult time playing a trannie. That said, she did give it her all, and it is an interesting addition to the Clone Club. But, like others, I don't expect Tony to long survive.
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post #727 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 03:26 PM
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Tony definitely is 'a bridge too far'.

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post #728 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 03:35 PM
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Yeah, the whole Tony the tranny thing is a head-scratcher. They'd been better off just having a straight-up hardcore female street thug as the next clone. This was the first time I was completely taken out of it.
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post #729 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 03:50 PM
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Yea, I picked the wrong time to check out the show after bailing a few eps into S2.
Caught scene where he she was injecting testosterone into thigh.
Reinforced my decision to stop watching.
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post #730 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 05:55 PM
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Yea, I picked the wrong time to check out the show after bailing a few eps into S2.
Caught scene where he she was injecting testosterone into thigh.
Reinforced my decision to stop watching.

Too bad
I see this episode as a misfire by the writing team. Too much hubris over the accolades for being "Oh so edgy" and Tatiana's acting excellence that they went "A Bridge Too Far" as aptly mentioned previously.
As long as they don't compound this corker of an error, I'm still in.
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post #731 of 838 Old 06-09-2014, 10:21 PM
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Honestly ... the only real problem with "Tony" is that Ms. M. tried too hard to lower her voice. Especially when we found out she was still genetically XX ... Next time, less "Batman" ... more Chaz Bono.
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post #732 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 06:48 AM
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Loved the actress but that wasn't a very convincing "man", sorry... not with those legs... with the testosterone shots "he's" taking they should have plenty of hair..
But wasn't Tony a girl that wanted to be a guy? Wasn't that why Tony was taking testosterone shots? And in real life that type of person might talk with a lower than normal voice for them. At least I have met one person where that was the case.

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post #733 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 07:31 AM
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But wasn't Tony a girl that wanted to be a guy? Wasn't that why Tony was taking testosterone shots? And in real life that type of person might talk with a lower than normal voice for them. At least I have met one person where that was the case.

Yes Tony is still a "girl" while she is taking testosterone shots, she may be changing her voice on purpose to put forth the person she is inside rather than who she "looks like" and was born as. Youll see this in both Sexes where men try to talk in higher tone of voice and women lower. Its not always convincing, but you get "used" to it, because that is who the person is. I didn't really have an issue with Tony, but maybe Ive been exposed to so many different people in my life that I don't blink an eye to things like this. She wants supposed to be pulling off a convincing man, Her role was to pull off a woman taking testosterone shots that is becoming a man. Two very different things here. Of course we also have people who are taken aback since they have been ogling her and different female roles and this one, will take them out of that fantasy state wink.gif
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post #734 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 10:11 AM
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Yes Tony is still a "girl" while she is taking testosterone shots, she may be changing her voice on purpose to put forth the person she is inside rather than who she "looks like" and was born as. Youll see this in both Sexes where men try to talk in higher tone of voice and women lower. Its not always convincing, but you get "used" to it, because that is who the person is. I didn't really have an issue with Tony, but maybe Ive been exposed to so many different people in my life that I don't blink an eye to things like this. She wants supposed to be pulling off a convincing man, Her role was to pull off a woman taking testosterone shots that is becoming a man. Two very different things here. Of course we also have people who are taken aback since they have been ogling her and different female roles and this one, will take them out of that fantasy state wink.gif
I think most of us here get all that, what bothered us, well at least in my case, is that the character itself was just poorly conceived, it was as if the writers decided, "Hey, lets try this" and then didn't create a believable person. The character of Tony was like an incomplete line drawing of a cartoon, no substance at all.

Put another way, the idea was excellent, but the execution of it was terrible.
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post #735 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 10:38 AM
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Not sure we can judge based on such a short intro. It's not like we've had a whole season to build his character with good background. Just a little too early to judge personally. It will always be jarring to have new characters inserted with the ones that have a "deep" background story already. They will seem tacked on poorly. In time however we may start to see the layers pealed back wink.gif


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post #736 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 10:42 AM
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It still doesn't change the fact at least in my eyes at how the character seems "thrown into the group"! The other problem is adding too many to keep track of.
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post #737 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 10:44 AM
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I think it was not a short intro problem,
The intro of Rachel was not jarring. Tony was the only clone where Tatiana appeared to be a discordant character of herself. Poorly done. Had they not gone unintentionally comical and had Tony's character be more similar to say Chaz Bono etc, it may have worked better.
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post #738 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 12:36 PM
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To me it had the feel of the writers sitting around during one of their sessions saying "hey, wouldn't it be great if one of the clones could be male?". Then all of them agreeing that idea would be impossible to pull off, so the next best thing might be to have it be a female who wants to be male. And as others have said, it was poorly executed.
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post #739 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 05:23 PM
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The whole Tony thing aside, one of my favorite chatacters besides the many faces of Tatiana, is Kiera. The young actress, while having a limited screen time compared to the others, is amazing in her role, and more than once very touching.
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post #740 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 07:57 PM
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Do any of you actually know any transgenders or are you reacting to your belief what a transgender looks/acts like? What if the crew and TM did a ton of research into this and had it nailed down? Are you reacting to your preconceived idea and/or expectations or prejudices? I'm just wondering. I don't have any personal experience with a transgender person. But I am not going to make the groans that have been populating this board over something I don't know a lot about.

http://amesbury.wickedlocal.com/article/ZZ/20140608/NEWS/306089998/12434/ENTERTAINMENT

Orphan Black already features a lesbian relationship and a gay character, so it should come as no surprise that a character like Tony was a long time coming for the series, which devotes a lot of screen time to issues of identity and regularly looks at the clones' similarities and differences. During a panel and screening of the episode at the ATX Television Festival on Saturday, Manson said that the idea for Tony came up near the end of Season 1, and was something that Orphan Black's creative team had been wanting to do for a long time. They knew they wanted to introduce a new clone in Season 2—something that both they and series star Tatiana Maslany take very seriously, because they want to really know their characters—and both Fawcett and Manson, as well as Maslany, all came to the same idea separately. "It was a very long process of creating and discovering that character," said Manson.

There was a lot of research involved. "It was a fun process, because it was super top secret," Fawcett said, noting that there were a lot of secret calls to the makeup trailer on his days off to see the transformation. "[Tatiana] kind of embraced that fearlessly."

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post #741 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 08:17 PM
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If you read the following link: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/07/orphan-black-tony-transclone-creators/
You can see the creators talk about how they tried a number of different approaches and were concerned about how bad they would look if they got it wrong.
Judging by all the conversation here and elsewhere it appears it did not go as they hoped.

Fortunately this is near the end of the season so they will have plenty of time to readjust even though we have a couple of more episodes where she/he could show up.
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post #742 of 838 Old 06-10-2014, 08:25 PM
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Thanks for the link but I don't think the story says that it was haphazard the way it is being portrayed here.
As to reactions, I was asking about the source of those reactions whether it is a knowledgeable criticism or complaints such as "Godzilla looks like a guy in a monster suit" sort of thing.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #743 of 838 Old 06-11-2014, 06:17 AM
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Thanks for the link but I don't think the story says that it was haphazard the way it is being portrayed here.
As to reactions, I was asking about the source of those reactions whether it is a knowledgeable criticism or complaints such as "Godzilla looks like a guy in a monster suit" sort of thing.

Poor execution. When a character jars you out of the drama and makes you aware you're watching an actor portray someone it's a failure. When an otherwise excellent show jumps the shark, they get called on it.
I worked with transgendered persons. Don't have their photos but take a look at publicly known Chaz Bono for an example that would have made more sense.

They shoulda had Tony grab his crotch! tongue.gif
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post #744 of 838 Old 06-12-2014, 05:25 AM
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I worked with transgendered persons.
They shoulda had Tony grab his crotch!
Is that what they do? Who knew?
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post #745 of 838 Old 06-12-2014, 08:23 AM
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Poor execution, exactly--and made all the more stark given Tatiana's stellar performances and the writer's excellent character creations heretofore. Lots of hits, but this one was a miss.
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post #746 of 838 Old 06-12-2014, 09:15 AM
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I thought Tony was just an excuse for Tatiana to show off her acting chops. Like "She can even play a GUY!!!" IMHO, it was really unnecessary and Tatiana didn't pull it off well at all. Hope that character doesn't continue. IMHO, this season has not at all lived up to the greatness that was Season 1.

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post #747 of 838 Old 06-12-2014, 01:12 PM
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Thinking about this after the fact... I think a smarter thing to have done here would be to have had Tatiana play "Tony" outright as a man. Think any number of movies where a woman pretended to be a man as a disguise... IF they had Tatiana play Tony that way and then let the other characters and viewers have to wonder IF Tony was a pre-op, post-op, or actually genetically modified male clone. I think that would probably have been a better mystery and been received better.

It's a case where they provided more info/answers than they had to... they could have left the mystery to us.
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post #748 of 838 Old 06-12-2014, 03:53 PM
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Is that what they do? Who knew?
All I know is that is what I do.

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post #749 of 838 Old 06-13-2014, 10:50 AM
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I thought Tony was just an excuse for Tatiana to show off her acting chops. Like "She can even play a GUY!!!" IMHO, it was really unnecessary and Tatiana didn't pull it off well at all. Hope that character doesn't continue. IMHO, this season has not at all lived up to the greatness that was Season 1.
I agree completely. I'm not digging the whole Tony clone thingy. I hope this character doesn't last very long.

Sorry Tatiana but you're way too hot an actress to pull off a wanna-be-dude character.

Although, it does give Felix an excuse to lock-lips with one beautiful babe.
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post #750 of 838 Old 06-13-2014, 11:47 AM
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Although, it does give Felix an excuse to lock-lips with one beautiful babe.
Yeah, but she's sporting a beard... at the time
Kind of ruins the whole thing doesn't it?

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