"24: Live Another Day" - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 719 Old 07-02-2014, 10:10 PM
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The really clunky exposition plot recap that Chloe had to give to Adrian when Cheng walked in was actually one time I thought it was useful, because I couldn't remember who Cheng was either. The massacre was a nice twist introduction however.

A couple of good Bauer one-liners this week filled in the gap between plots and Kate interrogating Navarro was an excellent moment even though as soon as Jack appeared I figured out the con. I would be in for a Jack and Kate sequel next year. Probably in China. Rescuing Chloe.


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post #482 of 719 Old 07-02-2014, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by HairyBee View Post
One of the early seasons his heart stopped and he had to get zapped. I think that happened a couple times actually...
Yep, Jack has been technically dead once inbetween his multiple tortures, addictions and injuries. Not to mention he was also infected by a bioweapon and was lying in hospital bed moments from death when Kim saved his life by donating to some kind of medical procedure.

Even with ebola Bauer keeps going until the 24th hour. Blood is too scared to leave his body. Car accidents are not going to stop him.


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post #483 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 01:59 AM
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I also appreciated Chloe's refresher course. So much ridiculous crap has happened in this series that I cannot remember Jack s*it.
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post #484 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 05:19 AM
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Line of the ep: Immunity is not on the table, but your hand is.

A.L.a.E.o.t.U.S., as proven 3/21 - never forget.
Defend liberty.
Knowledge isn't Truth; it's just mindless agreement.
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post #485 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by IAM4UK View Post
Line of the ep: Immunity is not on the table, but your hand is.
I preferred "Immunity is not on the table, but your hand is."

Bob Simandl ... somewhere near St. Louis
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post #486 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 07:00 AM
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Die Another Day, the James Bond movie? No, Tate Donovan's not in that.
Egads, you're right! Must've been his evil twin...

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #487 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 07:32 AM
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Just watched the Heller-lives ep. They tricked us via cheating, showing Heller walk onto the field. That must not have happened, given the follow-up explanation.
I think a lot of people might have missed what happened at Wembley. Heller did walk out onto the field. He did look up at the sky to clearly show his face to the targetting camera on the drone so Lady Stark would see it was him. He fully intented to sacrifice himself. At the last minute, they showed in the video that Heller suddenly turned and looked angrily to the side, then suddenly the video jerked and he looked back up at the sky again. Chloe had hacked into their system and she looped the video so that Jack could run in and pull Heller out, while to the terrorists it looked like the president was still on the field waiting to die. His sudden look to the side was his reaction to Jack running out onto the field and the son finally recognized it when he was reviewing it.

A lot of people were upset by that "cheat" but to me it seemed like a perfectly plausible way out of the predicament, at least in the "24" universe. The old 'loop the video' trick is certainly nothing new.
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post #488 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the explanation, Jack, but that makes the writers' offense greater.

A.L.a.E.o.t.U.S., as proven 3/21 - never forget.
Defend liberty.
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post #489 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Rainville View Post
I think a lot of people might have missed what happened at Wembley. Heller did walk out onto the field. He did look up at the sky to clearly show his face to the targetting camera on the drone so Lady Stark would see it was him. He fully intented to sacrifice himself. At the last minute, they showed in the video that Heller suddenly turned and looked angrily to the side, then suddenly the video jerked and he looked back up at the sky again. Chloe had hacked into their system and she looped the video so that Jack could run in and pull Heller out, while to the terrorists it looked like the president was still on the field waiting to die. His sudden look to the side was his reaction to Jack running out onto the field and the son finally recognized it when he was reviewing it.

A lot of people were upset by that "cheat" but to me it seemed like a perfectly plausible way out of the predicament, at least in the "24" universe. The old 'loop the video' trick is certainly nothing new.
Here's the problem: The video feed was from the camera on the drone, which was flying toward the stadium. It wasn't just hovering in one spot. The camera angle on Heller would change as the drone moved. You can't "loop" that. It would be immediately obvious that the camera suddenly jumped back a mile. Yet everything the terrorists see on their computer monitors is from one static view. Where the hell was that camera?

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post #490 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rezzy View Post
Egads, you're right! Must've been his evil twin...
The villain in Die Another Day was Toby Stephens, currently the star of Black Sails on the Starz network.

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post #491 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Calling it now...

Spoiler!

It's been made official by producer Robert Cochran:

Spoiler!


http://seriable.com/24-live-another-...keeps-ticking/

Besides:

Spoiler!


Only 2 more episodes left ...I want more 24!!


Spoiler!



...so many spoilers...so little to read!...
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post #492 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Here's the problem: The video feed was from the camera on the drone, which was flying toward the stadium. It wasn't just hovering in one spot. The camera angle on Heller would change as the drone moved. You can't "loop" that. It would be immediately obvious that the camera suddenly jumped back a mile. Yet everything the terrorists see on their computer monitors is from one static view. Where the hell was that camera?
You are no doubt right about that but in in the pantheon of 24's preposterous plot twists, it seems to me that the Heller's-dead-no-Heller's-not-really-dead twist barely ranks in the top half.
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post #493 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Here's the problem: The video feed was from the camera on the drone, which was flying toward the stadium. It wasn't just hovering in one spot. The camera angle on Heller would change as the drone moved. You can't "loop" that. It would be immediately obvious that the camera suddenly jumped back a mile. Yet everything the terrorists see on their computer monitors is from one static view. Where the hell was that camera?

Actually, for the last few seconds, it would not change that much. We've all seen enough actual drone bombing footage. It always looks like the camera is barely moving. However, given the explanation, the terrorists would miss the actual explosion, unless Chloe's hand was so fast that she could switch back to live at the exact micro second.
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post #494 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Rainville View Post
A lot of people were upset by that "cheat" but to me it seemed like a perfectly plausible way out of the predicament, at least in the "24" universe. The old 'loop the video' trick is certainly nothing new.
Plausible when you have infinite time. Not when you have barely 30 seconds from the moment the audience camera is off Heller and on Margot. For one the video has to be recorded, then looped back, so that has to be happening before the plan is put into effect. Then you have to have two dialogs with Chloe explaining to Jack and Jack explaining to Heller the plan has changed. More importantly Jack has to run half way across Wembley Stadium, grab old guy Heller and then both have them have to run back the 130 feet or so before the camera shows the missile hitting the pitch.


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Here's the problem: The video feed was from the camera on the drone, which was flying toward the stadium. It wasn't just hovering in one spot. The camera angle on Heller would change as the drone moved. You can't "loop" that. It would be immediately obvious that the camera suddenly jumped back a mile. Yet everything the terrorists see on their computer monitors is from one static view. Where the hell was that camera?
And I just went back to check what someone else had said elsewhere about a fake Heller on the video feed and not only did the episode show the camera zooming in as the missile flew towards Heller in less than a second, but to get that view it would have to be shot from the camera on the missile. So that means Chloe hacked the missile feed and the drone feed and then recreated a fake Heller in the video that the tracking image could focus on. You can't loop a video image that a missile is seeing as it flies towards the target.

Cheap producer audience manipulation.



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post #495 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 07:30 PM
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All of that is ancient history. What I posted earlier will be ancient history next week. Chew on it for a few days and spit it out. Because in the end: this is 24. This is all about Jack Bauer. Everything else is window dressing. End of story.

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post #496 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 07:52 PM
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Because in the end: this is 24.
I find this similar to going to a zoo and whining about a Zebra having stripes. You either move on or enjoy them for what they are... if you prefer another animal fine... just don't expect them to change and you certainly know all about the stripes after an episode or two.

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post #497 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 08:13 PM
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I find this similar to going to a zoo and whining about a Zebra having stripes. You either move on or enjoy them for what they are... if you prefer another animal fine... just don't expect them to change and you certainly know all about the stripes after an episode or two.
This show is only like a zoo if the zoo had a white horse and they painted the stripes on every year and then didn't expect people to point at it and laugh and wonder why they think the audience doesn't believe it.

The essence of 24 is not only Jack Bauer, but pointing out the dumb **** the show pulls. It was doing so well this year for the most part but Heller's not-death is one of the worst contrivances the show has ever made. Undermined not only Devane's performance that week but now has brought him back with nothing to do but forget speeches again.


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post #498 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 08:26 PM
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It was doing so well this year for the most part but Heller's not-death is one of the worst contrivances the show has ever made.
I used to analyze TV and movies against our world to a large degree. Then I read one of Roger Ebert's reviews where he stated more clearly than I can remember... Unless they break their own universe's rules all is fair... it's not fair to hold them to ours. As such if they introduce a "law" and then later "break that law" it is fair game to call them on it... other wise it's their universe.
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post #499 of 719 Old 07-03-2014, 08:39 PM
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I used to analyze TV and movies against our world to a large degree. Then I read one of Roger Ebert's reviews where he stated more clearly than I can remember... Unless they break their own universe's rules all is fair... it's not fair to hold them to ours. As such if they introduce a "law" and then later "break that law" it is fair game to call them on it... other wise it's their universe.
Which makes sense. Except Heller not dying has nothing to do with that rule which is why I didn't bother to bring up the fact that Hellfire missiles do not have video cameras and track by laser designation, so the missile feed would not exist. The basic tech can be given some leeway because 24 is still randomly set a few years ahead, so maybe future Hellfires will have onboard video to go with the new superstealth drones.

The faults with Heller surviving are purely production decisions. The show manipulated the audience by pulling him out with no chance of surviving based on the images the show presented to the audience. The audience was shown the character in a situation that was almost impossible to survive and a shot of the missile actually hitting the character within a second. Jack Bauer and Heller are still basically human and still run and jump like humans. Neither of them have the ability to leap a soccer pitch in a single bound before a missile strikes them.

If Jack got some bionic legs fitted in the past few years that we have yet to learn about, then yes, I'll admit the rescue was working within the confines of it's own universe.



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post #500 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 06:04 PM
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Because in the end: this is 24.
In the end, this is a show long past its prime relying on lazy writing to manipulate an audience with low standards and even lower expectations.

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post #501 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I used to analyze TV and movies against our world to a large degree. Then I read one of Roger Ebert's reviews where he stated more clearly than I can remember... Unless they break their own universe's rules all is fair... it's not fair to hold them to ours. As such if they introduce a "law" and then later "break that law" it is fair game to call them on it... other wise it's their universe.
24 is not science fiction or fantasy. The story is allegedly set in our real world. We can suspend disbelief and overlook some contrivances, such as how characters get all the way from one end of a big city to the other in the couple of minutes during a commercial break, but disbelief can only be suspended so much when the characters suddenly start doing things that are clearly impossible.

If Jack Bauer ducked into a telephone booth and came out wearing blue spandex and a cape, and flew over to rescue President Heller then circled around the planet a few times to turn back time, would you say, "Oh well, the show's just following its own rules."? No, you wouldn't. You'd say, "WTF was that? That's the worst BS I've ever seen in my life!"

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post #502 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 06:23 PM
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Yeah but 10 years ago, some people were taking this show seriously as an exemplar of how torture could resolve the "ticking bomb" threats that people were imagining.

Seminars were held and even some junior officers in the military and the intelligence community were said to take the show seriously.
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post #503 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 07:01 PM
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No, you wouldn't.
Please don't speak for me. As I find your rules beyond belief.

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post #504 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 07:10 PM
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In the end, this is a show long past its prime relying on lazy writing to manipulate an audience with low standards and even lower expectations.
Or, in the end, it's a show that's always had an over the top premise with the ability to entertain without requiring that it hew towards reality in anything other than a superficial manner. Besides, if it no longer entertains you (the general as well as the specific you), why watch it at all? Jack Bauer has never been more "believable" than Batman (except for not being filthy rich). But I've always had fun watching his adventures. YMMV
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post #505 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 08:14 PM
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Please don't speak for me. As I find your rules beyond belief.
So you'd be hunky-dory with it if Jack put on tights and revealed that he's from outer space?

We're really only a step away from that at this point.

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post #506 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 08:19 PM
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Besides, if it no longer entertains you (the general as well as the specific you), why watch it at all?
You've never hate-watched a show?

I loved the first five seasons of 24. It's been a steep downhill slide since then, but I kept watching out of some misguided hope that the show would turn itself around. It never did, and then it got canceled. Now that it's back, I foolishly thought that something had changed over the last four years and the series would return from its hiatus refreshed and finally back to form.

That didn't happen, obviously.

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post #507 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 08:48 PM
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You've never hate-watched a show?
Nope. If I stop liking a show, I stop watching. I have far too many unwatched things on my shelves (as well as too many unread books) to spend my time on something I don't like (unless it is a work obligation--I do have to read some books or watch some films [mostly documentaries] that I might not enjoy, but I never do that for recreational media consumption).
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post #508 of 719 Old 07-05-2014, 11:10 PM
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I can relate to "hate-watching" a show. My mentality is that if I've invested all this time into a series, I'm not just gonna stop watching it without seeing how it ends. I did that with Dexter, and God knows that had a terrible final season. Also did it with Weeds, Heroes, and probably some other shows. However, I'm not really as displeased with this season of 24 as Josh and some others are. Yeah, it has it's (huge) contrivances, but I'm finding it more enjoyable than the final season was. I'm also of the mind that season five of 24 was the last "great" season of the show, but I would probably rank Live Another Day near the top of the post-season-five seasons.

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post #509 of 719 Old 07-06-2014, 07:06 AM
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I thought the Heller switcheroo was a disappointment too. But as others have said, this is 24. He's survived countless shootings, beatings, stabbings, torture sessions, and nuclear explosions and never once had to go to the bathroom or eat lunch. CTU was Swiss cheese to any bad guy to infiltrate. His phone battery never died and could do things that would leave James Bond envious.
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post #510 of 719 Old 07-06-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hooked01 View Post
I thought the Heller switcheroo was a disappointment too. But as others have said, this is 24. He's survived countless shootings, beatings, stabbings, torture sessions, and nuclear explosions and never once had to go to the bathroom or eat lunch. CTU was Swiss cheese to any bad guy to infiltrate. His phone battery never died and could do things that would leave James Bond envious.
Sure, repetitive writing and heroic resilience are part of the show and other action franchises but as I said, this was one occasion where the producers cheated by showing Heller survive something that was almost impossible. We literally saw a missile fly into Heller's face. That's tricky to brush off and limp away from. Even Jack would have trouble recovering from that injury.

There's a a couple of old TV rules about characters dying on screen. If you don't see a character take a last breath on camera or they get shot anywhere else except in the forehead there's a chance they can survive. I really think getting a missile in the face should be added to the list of fatal instances.

And for Prison Break fans we should probably add being decapitated and having your head put in a box too.



Last edited by VisionOn; 07-06-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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