ABC's Joss Whedon/Marvel Cinema Universe tie-in: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 09:10 AM
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Chloe Bennett as eye candy was the most interesting thing this week. The rest of it was the same bland and weak writing as previous. The nice Chinese guy going from shy street performer to psycho flamethrower in about a day was just such poor direction I was at least expecting a throwaway line explaining his instant cold-bloodedness or some last minute crisis of conscience. The best the show could do was a "true nature" piece of drivel.

Overall it felt like one of the bad episodes from Heroes super serum years. I already sat through those so I'm joining the rest of the viewers who are giving up.


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post #362 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Chloe Bennett as eye candy was the most interesting thing this week. The rest of it was the same bland and weak writing as previous. The nice Chinese guy going from shy street performer to psycho flamethrower in about a day was just such poor direction I was at least expecting a throwaway line explaining his instant cold-bloodedness or some last minute crisis of conscience.

Agreed. You don't go from shy, just-leave-me-alone to homicidal psychopath that quickly. It seemed designed to allow SHIELD to kill him off, and end that storyline, with a clear conscience. Poor writing indeed.
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post #363 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 10:10 AM
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Mmmmmmm...Skye in a bikini....
Why does this sound familiar?wink.gif
Agreed.

::cough cough:: border patrol, NSA, DHS ::cough cough::

I'm by no means a teaparty anti-liberal extreme political activist, but honestly, an organization doing some of the things S.H.I.E.L.D. does cannot be "for the greater good". Some of these things are downright scary, and it bothers me that people would be willing to give up their rights to allow them to do some of the things they do.

~Tighr: Not helping the situation since 1983

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post #364 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 10:21 AM
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I don't see any new social commentary here. It's a sci-fi staple that all government agencies protecting Earth from outer space or monsters must always use questionable methods until the heroes draw a line in the sand.

The X-files had it, Buffy, Stargate, Heroes, Fringe ... the list goes on


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post #365 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 02:23 PM
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This show has "might makes right" propaganda written into it. Very unlike the Marvel Universe, but just like Disney Corp to use "might makes right" propaganda. It's not the first time, they have a long history of doing this kinda of propaganda.

If ABC's S.H.I.E.L.D. continues it will rebrand Marvel and bring down the Box Office Take of the Marvel Movies.

When you think Marvel, you don't think about this chlorination of an excuse of a show. When you think Marvel, you think of flawed Superheroes having to do the right thing, you think of the fantastic reaffirmation of justice in a world that's lost it's sense of it and not this television procedural knock off of Hawaii .5 0 with special effects for the kiddies.

There will come a tipping point where millions will begin to associate this dribble with the Marvel Brand. Once that happens, no one is going to spend ten buck to go see a marvel movie the first weekend it opens. The public will begin to associate Marvel movies with this ABC's S.H.I.E.L.D. dung. Such is the power of a weekly show seen by millions each week. Good luck with those movie advertising budgets to wash away the ABC's S.H.I.E.L.D's television impression
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post #366 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 02:33 PM
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Actually, if you understand Marvel's history of S.H.I.E.L.D., you know that this "might makes right" thing is what Nick Fury's organization was designed to do. In the comics, Tony Stark (Ironman) represents this neo-fascist view of the world (the IM movies have really fuzzed this up), and Steve Rogers (Captain America) represents its counterpoint. Cap is very uncomfortable with the whole concept of S.H.I.E.L.D. and what it means vis a vis American moral values, and that leads to lots of the internal conflict and angst that Marvel is famous for. I just saw the first trailer for the new Captain America movie (due in April) and it looks like they're going to be exploring that conflict.

Nothing new here, really. This is S.H.I.E.L.D. They're not supposed to be a politically correct, warm and fuzzy operation. In that regard, this show is probably erring in the wrong direction.
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post #367 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

You don't go from shy, just-leave-me-alone to homicidal psychopath that quickly. It seemed designed to allow SHIELD to kill him off, and end that storyline, with a clear conscience.

They needed a way to make the plot procedural to avoid having any loose ends. Apparently they're too afraid to go beyond the hero/villain of the week format.
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post #368 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

You don't go from shy, just-leave-me-alone to homicidal psychopath that quickly. It seemed designed to allow SHIELD to kill him off, and end that storyline, with a clear conscience.

They needed a way to make the plot procedural to avoid having any loose ends. Apparently they're too afraid to go beyond the hero/villain of the week format.

That wasn't the issue. The writing being so shallow they didn't even bother to give the character motivation or even write in a few lines saying the exposure to the serum and withdrawal would lead to a psychotic break was. The character went from pleading for his life with the bad guys to burning a hole in the chest of the guy who rescued him with no reasoning at all.

Plenty of ways to kill him to end the story. Making him realize that he had injected too much and killed innocent people, before telling everyone to evacuate as he went nuclear would have gone some way to making his character arc have a grain of truth.


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post #369 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 05:17 PM
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Well, I guess I was wrong about this show doing well in "The Demo". This news doesn't bode well. Getting beat by NCIS? Better call The Avengers! From the HOTP thread....


TV/Nielsen Notes
With ratings tumbling, can 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' be fixed?
By Scott Collins, Los Angeles Times' 'Show Tracker' Blog - Oct. 23, 2013

Roll over Captain America and tell Incredible Hulk the news: "Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." is in ratings trouble.

Joss Whedon's comic-book caper about investigators in the superhero world premiered earlier this fall hoping to leap tall buildings, but it's been on a ratings descent ever since, according to Nielsen.

Tuesday's episode sank to its lowest rating yet, with just 7.4 million tuning in. More important, "S.H.I.E.L.D." was beaten for the second straight week in the crucial adults ages 18 to 49 demographic by .... wait for it .... "NCIS."

If you're ABC, this is not a desirable result. "NCIS" is the No. 1 entertainment series on TV, but its audience is older than many network executives would like. A cool show with a lot of fanboy buzz like "S.H.I.E.L.D." should be pounding "NCIS." The fact that it's not spells trouble for ABC. Wait any longer, and the only audience left will be Whedon die-hards.

So what can be done? Fans seem to think the show is just too ho-hum. With plots that rest on investigators -- rather than the superhuman caped crusaders themselves -- "S.H.I.E.L.D." has become just another procedural. And not a particularly distinguished one at that.

Over at Atlantic Wire, Esther Zuckerman suggests that what the show really needs is one overpowering villain who can drive plots forward. That may be true, but it's not the only problem. Some fans have even tweeted that the sets look cheap -- no doubt a hazard for a weekly TV show that's inevitably compared to "Iron Man" and other movies in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

What do you think of "S.H.I.E.L.D."? What can be done to fix the ratings erosion?

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-marvels-agents-of-shield-ratings-20131023,0,5391694.story#axzz2igP3kfrz
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post #370 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 06:03 PM
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Not only that but game one of a excellent world series was the young demo winner last night among males.
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post #371 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 06:54 PM
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MLB will kill some of the ratings... I also like and watch NCIS so that eats into it too. Can't do anything about MLB playoffs... but they didn't have to schedule this opposite NCIS!

Yeah baby!  It's Halloween!
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post #372 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 11:16 PM
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What the he!! is NCIS?confused.gif

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post #373 of 1728 Old 10-24-2013, 11:27 PM
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What the he!! is NCIS?confused.gif

Use the Interwebz, Luke oink!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIS_(TV_series)

It's one of the five million crime dramas on the CBS schedule that always gets ridiculously good ratings.
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post #374 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 12:25 AM
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Use the Interwebz, Luke oink!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIS_(TV_series)

It's one of the five million crime dramas on the CBS schedule that always gets ridiculously good ratings.
OK, thanx for the link.
I don't watch stuff like that, so I didn't have any idea what it was.

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post #375 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 12:54 AM
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the dialog in the most recent episode. It was wooden and ridiculous. The dialog between Skye and her boyfriend was just amazingly stilted. Separately, "Scorch" was a completely undeveloped character. It seems like he writers just said "who will he be" for each scene with no continuity.

The only character with potential for me is Ming Na.
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post #376 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 07:24 AM
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I will mention that Scorch's "Chinese-accent" seemed really forced and unnatural, and I don't speak Cantonese. Thought it was a better ep, but unfortunately, this is as good as it gets...

"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #377 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 08:18 AM
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despite my username I'm Chinese, Ming Na and Scorch were speaking Cantonese to each other which I find kind of refreshing, usually Chinese characters in tv shows and movies will speak Mandarin now, which I find to be a horrendous, unpleasant sounding language. Agree Scorch's accent was a bit forced, presumably because the actor probably speaks perfect English and may not have been a good enough actor to pull it off.
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post #378 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 08:29 AM
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Agreed. You don't go from shy, just-leave-me-alone to homicidal psychopath that quickly. It seemed designed to allow SHIELD to kill him off, and end that storyline, with a clear conscience. Poor writing indeed.

Did they not prove the drug makes you a bit unstable Mentally as well as physically in episode one?
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post #379 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 10:34 AM
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That wasn't the issue. The writing being so shallow they didn't even bother to give the character motivation or even write in a few lines saying the exposure to the serum and withdrawal would lead to a psychotic break was. The character went from pleading for his life with the bad guys to burning a hole in the chest of the guy who rescued him with no reasoning at all.

.

That's the problem, exactly. Even knowing Joss isn't heavily involved, his participation has been hyped enough for the viewer to expect a Whedon type of show. And two of his trademarks are an almost anal attention to detail and the ability to establish unique characters in just a few lines of dialog. This show had little of that to begin with, and seems to have even less with each new episode.

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #380 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 01:26 PM
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That's the problem, exactly. Even knowing Joss isn't heavily involved, his participation has been hyped enough for the viewer to expect a Whedon type of show. And two of his trademarks are an almost anal attention to detail and the ability to establish unique characters in just a few lines of dialog. This show had little of that to begin with, and seems to have even less with each new episode.
Well said, sir.

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post #381 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 01:53 PM
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My recommendation would be to replace Ming-Na with Yvonne Strahovski, and science-gal Elizabeth Henstridge with Summer Glau. The plot can go down the crapper and I would still watch the show faithfully.
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post #382 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 02:20 PM
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Overall it felt like one of the bad episodes from Heroes super serum years.

Gee, I wonder why? Oh that's right, Jeph Loeb, the head of Marvel Television, was driving that story line for Heroes.
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post #383 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 02:39 PM
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That's the problem, exactly. Even knowing Joss isn't heavily involved, his participation has been hyped enough for the viewer to expect a Whedon type of show. And two of his trademarks are an almost anal attention to detail and the ability to establish unique characters in just a few lines of dialog. This show had little of that to begin with, and seems to have even less with each new episode.
I guess it's unimaginable that Marvel & Disney were happy to cut a big fat check to attach a name that would bring the project some cred and that Whedon might be willing to cash said check. Let's not forget the second noun in show business.
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post #384 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 02:42 PM
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My recommendation would be to replace Ming-Na with Yvonne Strahovski, and science-gal Elizabeth Henstridge with Summer Glau. The plot can go down the crapper and I would still watch the show faithfully.

Summer popped up on the CW guilty pleasure 'Arrow' in the season premiere. Hopefully, she'll have a recurring role. Yvonne is somewhere in Argentina, taking care of a young boy she just met. wink.gif
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post #385 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 02:43 PM
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the dialog in the most recent episode. It was wooden and ridiculous. The dialog between Skye and her boyfriend was just amazingly stilted. Separately, "Scorch" was a completely undeveloped character. It seems like he writers just said "who will he be" for each scene with no continuity.

The only character with potential for me is Ming Na.

I agree with everything above. Somebody else compared this show to 'Mutant X' a while back, and as I was listening to the dialog of this week's episode, that's all I could think of. It was awful. Especially Skye's boyfriend. Wowsers that was cheesy. Like it was lifted from a random internet dialog generator for generic anti-establishment hacker types.

I agree with Ming Na's potential. She needs more dialog. The other actor who could have been a great addition to this show as an occasional recurring character was, unfortunately, the Chinese agent who got a whole burned through his chest. Tzi Ma is an amazingly talented actor, with a great range, when given a decent role. I was lucky enough to work for him on a stage production of 'Dance and the Railroad' he directed back in the 90s, and he was really inspirational. It's still one of my favorite shows I've ever worked on.
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post #386 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 02:47 PM
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Summer popped up on the CW guilty pleasure 'Arrow' in the season premiere. Hopefully, she'll have a recurring role.

Yes, Summer's in a recurring role on Arrow: http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/summer-glau-to-recur-on-cws-arrow/
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post #387 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 05:09 PM
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The other actor who could have been a great addition to this show as an occasional recurring character was, unfortunately, the Chinese agent who got a whole burned through his chest. Tzi Ma is an amazingly talented actor, with a great range, when given a decent role.

He pops up all over television and I agree, I would much rather have had him on board as a regular than the rest of the B-team. He died a pointless death on SHIELD.


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post #388 of 1728 Old 10-25-2013, 10:51 PM
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I guess it's unimaginable that Marvel & Disney were happy to cut a big fat check to attach a name that would bring the project some cred and that Whedon might be willing to cash said check. Let's not forget the second noun in show business.


Ah, so the plan was to make a bad show. Gotcha.

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post #389 of 1728 Old 10-26-2013, 03:29 AM
 
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Is it just me or is the science chick even hotter than Rising Tide chick?
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post #390 of 1728 Old 10-26-2013, 07:27 AM
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Ah, so the plan was to make a bad show. Gotcha.
No. but cutting a big check to St. Joss doesn't insure a good show. Clearly.
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