ABC's Joss Whedon/Marvel Cinema Universe tie-in: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 01:50 PM
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^^Exactly what Closet Geek said. If you really wanted to see things in order, last week's AoS, Cap2, then tonight forward on AoS. The other AoS episodes don't build to anything related to the current events (for the most part), they are mostly stand-alone eps (though some scenes MAY have minor implications in the current storyline).
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post #812 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 04:33 PM
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Totally agree.  AoS has been much better since it came back in January so you have that.  I think last weeks episode is the most that ties into Cap 2 and there has been some underlying theme the past 4-5 episodes that relate to it, but it won't effect your enjoyment of Cap 2 if you skip them, it will only enhance it as in "aha!  now I get what has been going on with AoS the past month".  However certainly try to see Cap 2 or at least get on the net and check out a synopsis/spoilers if you want to really understand what's going on with AoS going forward starting tonight.  Having said that, we have yet to see what's up as it may be the same in that you don't have to see Cap 2 to understand what's happening going forward, but it will really enhance it.  I would expect some sort of recap or retelling of Cap 2 events from their perspective to get audiences caught up a bit.  We'll see in less then an hour.

 

As for Thor 2, there is no connection at all with that movie and Cap 2.  AoS had a minor crossover episode right after Thor 2 where they "clean up" after the mess and then of course the episode with Lady Sif is a bit of a crossover as well but you don't need to have seen Thor 2 at all to enjoy it.


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post #813 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 05:07 PM
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I wonder if Cap2 will boost AoS viewership now?
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post #814 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1812 View Post

^^Exactly what Closet Geek said. If you really wanted to see things in order, last week's AoS, Cap2, then tonight forward on AoS. The other AoS episodes don't build to anything related to the current events (for the most part), they are mostly stand-alone eps (though some scenes MAY have minor implications in the current storyline).

I agree with your watch order. Still watching AoS does add a little to Cap2.
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post #815 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 06:49 PM
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Great episode tonight, AoS hopefully will keep this up thru the finale
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post #816 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

According to the Standard Template for TV Adventure/Drama Shows, they're building him up to be a good guy and making him seem gruff but likable, and a good friend to the team. Which means he's probably going to end up being a big, bad villain with a shocking "game changing" double cross down the line that "nobody saw coming".

Remember, you read it first here. Hey, I don't make the rules. wink.gif

And a prize for archiguy!!!

So, is Hand really dead? Or is Ward under cover within Hydra?
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post #817 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 08:49 PM
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post #818 of 1390 Old 04-08-2014, 10:30 PM
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Well now that was interesting. Saw Captain America 2 earlier tonight then watched this episode. DEFINITELY the recommended order. Quite a turn, looking forward to seeing what happens on the show now.
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post #819 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 05:08 AM
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"Game over man, game over!"

 

Yep, twists and turns were typical Joss writing so wonder if he had a bigger hand in this episode.  I had Simmons wrong, guess they weren't going to be so bold as to have a main cast member as Hydra.   I had Garrett lower on my list of Hydra agents, I really thought it would be Hand.  Too bad since I really like Paxton, however he could be a great longer term "big bad".  After the Ward reveal I watched the end again and watched is facial expressions which leads me to believe that he's going undercover to try to root out the Hydra base.  Either that or he had bad gas.  :)  So either those 3 agents including Hand sacrificed themselves for this or they aren't really dead.  Was just too much of a setup for Ward to really be Hydra.  But I'd honestly like to see them go beyond typical TV and have Ward really be Hydra.

 

Very nice tie in to the movie, basically this episode happened during the time the movie did and ended when the movie ended (they had scenes from the movie on the big screen at the end including the helicarriers going down) and mentioned that Cap took care of things.  They explained a couple things that happened in the movie just enough that you don't need to have seen the movie to understand what's going on, and really didn't spoil too much of the movie.  But you are really missing out I think if you haven't seen the movie (just because it's that good).  

 

Oh, loved the Hydra logo at the end instead of the Shield logo.

 

Hail Hydra!


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post #820 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 05:59 AM
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Excellent episode! I mean nice surprises here and there.

Of all the agents I thought it was the traitor

(pad pad pad pad pad pad pad pad pad pad)

I never thought Ward would be the one, and Hand looks dead dead, the other agents too (unless you could survive one in the head)

I still can't believe Fury is dead until I see his dead body...

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post #821 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 06:30 AM
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DrLar: Go see Cap2. You will see Fury's fate.
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post #822 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin_Wadsworth View Post

And a prize for archiguy!!!

So, is Hand really dead? Or is Ward under cover within Hydra?

I think Paxton would notice if she wasn't dead.
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post #823 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 08:07 AM
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I liked the episode and the fact that it is staying current with the movies. However, Ward's "turn" if it really is was a bit too much.
He was way too anxious to go to see Garrett's punishment and Hand's telling him to shoot Garrett doesn't ring true either.
So either its a double double cross or just really stupid.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #824 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 08:30 AM
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DrLar: Go see Cap2. You will see Fury's fate.

Arrrghh... dang it!

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post #825 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by daryl zero View Post

I liked the episode and the fact that it is staying current with the movies. However, Ward's "turn" if it really is was a bit too much.
He was way too anxious to go to see Garrett's punishment and Hand's telling him to shoot Garrett doesn't ring true either.
So either its a double double cross or just really stupid.

 

Exactly.  He most likely is doing it on purpose, and at least on Hand's order if not Coulson, to find the Hydra base(s), what's going on there and report back.  He's turning the tables and being a spy for Shield inside of Hydra (as Hand pointed out is something they now have to do).  If the case then we'll see the typical TV thing of him coming back into the fold as a good guy in the finale.


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post #826 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 09:04 AM
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post #827 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 09:35 AM
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I think Paxton would notice if she wasn't dead.

Ward shot the guards in the head, but gave Hand a body shot, so it's possible she's not dead. I didn't notice if the guards were wearing Red Shirts.
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post #828 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 09:42 AM
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Well here's the problem. Ward shot Hand more than once. TV logic can hand wave away alot of things, but from what we were shown, it'd be hard to reconcile her not being dead.


Dazed and confused over high tech.

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post #829 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 09:44 AM
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Ward shot the guards in the head, but gave Hand a body shot, so it's possible she's not dead. I didn't notice if the guards were wearing Red Shirts.

I thought the same, especially since they showed her bleeding out and across her hand. Not sure what to make of that.

Some of you believe that Garrett is the Clairvoyant, but I never saw anything in the episode to suggest that. Thus, he would NOT know if Agent Hand was merely wounded and "playing dead".
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post #830 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 09:52 AM
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It's interesting to me how different (to the better) this show is from where it started. I'm really enjoying this current storyline because it provides that actual connection to SHIELD that many including myself have been wanting. There's no feeling of being disjointed now. I'm definitely looking forward to how it all progresses with the show and future movie installments.

One thing that's really nagging at me is when the drones started attacking Garrett. It's one thing for such a reuse if he had just left The Bus and the team needed to see that he was under attack. But he was out on his own out of visual if not radar range and had to back track to The Bus for safety. If it was a matter of HYDRA attempting to take down a SHIELD plane it seems that Garrett would have identified himself as HYDRA (really, they probably would have already known). And there would have been no need to go back to The Bus because it was already on a course for the base. Firing on Garrett wasn't necessary because The Bus was already under flight control so no need to "sell" attacking him by actually firing on him. I guess the short version of that is if there was some reason that Garrett needed to get back on The Bus the drones didn't need to fire on him in that first scene. The only needed to do so when he was back in visual contact with The Bus.

If it was SHIELD attempting to take down Garrett then it would have been because someone would have known it was him and he was HYDRA. SHIELD would not have necessarily just shot down one of their planes without attempting to ascertain allegance. But the drones fired first. So was Garrett suspected all along (by SHIELD) by someone outside the team? If so, then it's possible that this would play into Ward's actions at the end. Ward shoots "clairvoyant". Job is done and Garrett leaves. But to maybe "contain" Garrett they have to get him back on The Bus somehow so the drones drive him back. He partners up with the team upon returning to the base. He's gets lead into a trap to expose himself as HYDRA but they can't just kill him or jail him because he has information. Who can get that information? Ward. Where this theory breaks down is how Garrett got tripped up with the girl in the flower dress thing. SHIELD couldn't have predicted that.

However...(anybody see the movie Clue?...lol)....what if Garrett really isn't HYDRA and is on a special ops assignment with Ward to further expose HYDRA? There is sound logic to thinking that the entire team wouldn't have known in that whole compartmentalizing concept. But again, why shoot at Garrett's plane unless HYDRA figured out he was a double agent actually still working for SHIELD. But if that were the case then his identity would have been mass communicated amongst HYDRA you would think.

Okay, my eyes are getting crossed....anybody wanna take it from here?j biggrin.gif
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post #831 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 10:54 AM
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Like others here, the thing I can't reconcile is how Ward could shoot 3 agents (two in the head, and Hand he shot 3 times, twice while she was already down). Not sure how that's just a cover. Seems like something's deeply wrong with Ward and I don't see how they can write their way out of it.

Two signs things were going south for Ward in this episode:
1) He kissed Skye (romantic resolution is never a good thing on a TV show), and
2) When he was being overpowered by guards, you saw him see a knife, then... cut to him opening the door. They didn't show what he did with that knife, but you can imagine!

Ward's gone fully bad as far as I can tell - but maybe they have some mystically awesome writing ahead of us to explain his turn of behavior (I doubt it though).
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post #832 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 11:02 AM
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Gotta remember its a comic book, have to look at it with a 12 years old logic. Its more about the sense of awe and wonder, not common sense.smile.gif

Ward definitely shot Hand more than once, which seems to prove which side he was on. And they made a point of reminding us how close he was to Garrett so the idea they were in cahoots was believable. But I still believe it was an elaborate ruse, with fake blood and the 2nd shot confirming to Garrett he was on his side. I think I would prefer he was Hydra-never cared much for Ward...but no. Still think they have a Hydra member on the team though...my money would be on Skye...

Now the blah way the show started and the delays in new episodes makes sense-they were biding their time until Winter Solder came out, before showing what the series is really about. Hopefully they didn't lose too much of their audience in the early episodes that the show can't recover, because its on a roll now.

"There is no truth. There's just what you believe."
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post #833 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 11:53 AM
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For those who watched the Cap2 movie, did it somehow plug the AOS show? That's a prime opportunity missed for AOS, if not. I guess the cross-promotion only goes one way AOS -> MCU movies and not the other way round?

You figure the ratings for AOS would spike after Cap2, but it looks like it actually dropped.
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post #834 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 11:58 AM
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For those who watched the Cap2 movie, did it somehow plug the AOS show? That's a prime opportunity missed for AOS, if not. I guess the cross-promotion only goes one way AOS -> MCU movies and not the other way round?

You figure the ratings for AOS would spike after Cap2, but it looks like it actually dropped.

 

No, they didn't promote AOS at all which I found surprising and obviously Cap 2 didn't bring in any new audience.  Which signals that there is very little room for growth as those that are watching it are about it and it won't get any new audience.

 

I fully expected the end of credits scene to be the AOS team or at least Coulson to lead the audience to AOS but no dice so it was a *really* missed opportunity and Disney dropped the ball here big time and AOS poor start has really hurt it.

 

Just saw today that Maria Hill will be coming in for more then one episode to end the season further showing they are picking up where Cap 2 left off.

 

My prediction is they will give AOS one more season but if they can't build an audience out of Cap 2 making nearly 100 million it's first weekend I don't know how they will ever increase the ratings.


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post #835 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 12:53 PM
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If the show continues on this current trend of quality interest the viewership will come. Their primary target audience is the Marvel fans and what they have going now will generate renewed interest among those fans who didn't stick with it. This series and a bang up job season ender will cause a lot of anticipation going into next season. Especially if they're going to address a lot of what happened to and what will happen to SHIELD, Fury and crew before the next movie.
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post #836 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 01:01 PM
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Perhaps if they move it from Tuesdays, going against NCIS doesn't help at all, even an NCIS repeat will beat this show.

Heck POI repeat had double the ratings...

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post #837 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flambe View Post

Like others here, the thing I can't reconcile is how Ward could shoot 3 agents (two in the head, and Hand he shot 3 times, twice while she was already down). Not sure how that's just a cover. Seems like something's deeply wrong with Ward and I don't see how they can write their way out of it.

Two signs things were going south for Ward in this episode:
1) He kissed Skye (romantic resolution is never a good thing on a TV show), and
2) When he was being overpowered by guards, you saw him see a knife, then... cut to him opening the door. They didn't show what he did with that knife, but you can imagine!

Ward's gone fully bad as far as I can tell - but maybe they have some mystically awesome writing ahead of us to explain his turn of behavior (I doubt it though).

All that is true in reality but why did Hand ask Ward to shoot Garrett? It doesn't make sense unless it was to set this up. If Ward had just, out of the blue, started shooting, I'd buy it. Not the way it was done.

Jerry. Just remember. Its not a lie . . . if you believe it. GC
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post #838 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 03:27 PM
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All that is true in reality but why did Hand ask Ward to shoot Garrett? It doesn't make sense unless it was to set this up. If Ward had just, out of the blue, started shooting, I'd buy it. Not the way it was done.

Agreed - either a setup or really poor writing.
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post #839 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 03:48 PM
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Heck POI repeat had double the ratings...

Nope shield 1.9 killed poi 1.2.

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post #840 of 1390 Old 04-09-2014, 03:53 PM
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I hate this show... It's getting worse and worse...

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