ABC's Joss Whedon/Marvel Cinema Universe tie-in: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 10:08 AM
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Only one person commented on this? I like the show, but to me that was incredibly stupid and lazy. How would that raft not have gotten sucked out with that much speed and force pulling it?

I have to say the Jackson cameo really surprised me. I honestly never expected any big names to show up on this show, but now short of Robert Downey Jr. I could see any of the other Avengers cast showing up because they are not as big a name as the other two.

Come on, the raft was built with Tesseract Photonic Sub-Phasic Plasma Energy Emulsification!!! wink.gif

I can see the Hulk making an appearance because you don't have to convince and coordinate the actor to show up. They'll just have Specialist guy and Skye locked in a single room with a ticking bomb the whole episode and Hulk will bust them out at the end to save the budget for the VFX.
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post #182 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 10:11 AM
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‘S.H.I.E.L.D.’ falls 34 percent in week two
New ABC drama averages a 3.1 in 18-49s, third in the hour
By Toni Fitzgerald, Media Life Magazine - Oct. 2, 2013

Last week’s big premiere for “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” did not hold.

The new ABC drama lost a big chunk of its premiere audience in its second episode last night.

“S.H.I.E.L.D.” averaged a 3.1 adults 18-49 rating at 8 p.m., according to Nielsen overnights, down 34 percent from a 4.7 last week.

The show finished third in its timeslot behind NBC’s “The Voice,” the night’s top show with a 4.6 from 8 to 10 p.m., and CBS’s “NCIS” (3.4, off only 6 percent from last week). That was still ABC’s best performance in the timeslot in two years.

“S.H.I.E.L.D.” did see big gains in live-plus-three-day-DVR playback last week, and it’s possible that some of the losses will be made up for with bigger time-shifting. And “S.H.I.E.L.D.” did win its timeslot in the major male demos, finishing first for the night in men 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54.

But it’s still a concerning week-two decline for the new season’s most highly touted show.

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post #183 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 10:45 AM
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As expected ratings fell 4.7 to 3.1 so hopefully settles in the 2.5 range.
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‘S.H.I.E.L.D.’ falls 34 percent in week two
New ABC drama averages a 3.1 in 18-49s, third in the hour
By Toni Fitzgerald, Media Life Magazine - Oct. 2, 2013

We know....to late. tongue.gif

But did get bumped up to 3.3 in the final rating though.

L3 should push to maybe a 5.

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post #184 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 01:43 PM
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I think of first episodes like first issues of comics... and it is a very apt comparison in this case.

Lots of people order #1 issues of comics, both to try and in case it becomes popular to have a "hot" first issue. The trend in recent comic history has been for issue #1 to sell well, then #2 becomes the rare issue IF the series gets popular later... because all the issue #1 people aren't ever going to be longterm customers.

So... now to TV and premiere episodes.

People will tune in to a first episode to give it a try even if they know nothing about the show... just in case they like it AND so they aren't left hanging the next day IF others they know watch and like it. But episode two? Only the fans who really bought in will come back. BUT... if the show gets buzz, then some of those who ditched it will come back.

Will that be true for Shield? I don't know. it has the "cult" feel to me, where it will develop a small but loyal following.... but then, I can't imagine anyone really had dreams of this being a smash hit. It is written for a smaller loyal audience really. It doesn't feel like it wants to be a blockbuster hit.
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post #185 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 01:59 PM
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It is written for a smaller loyal audience really. It doesn't feel like it wants to be a blockbuster hit.

Disagree completely. This is watered down and ABC audience palatable stuff. It's not cult, it's just not clever or alienating enough. The show is playing to those who managed somehow not to see The Avengers. That's why there are multiple dialog references explaining what happened in the movies and everything they introduce comes with a footnote to explain what it is.

If it was aimed at the "loyal" comic base it wouldn't need all the empty casting choices either. That audience would be quite happy with a cast full of adults.


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post #186 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 03:41 PM
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I watched both episodes and it has not really caught my interest even though I'm into the stuff. All the characters are bland Sure, they have witty lines here and there, but there is no charisma or chemistry. Agent Coulson was good as a subordinate/straight man in Iron Man and Avengers, but the character is not convincing as a leader. Then you have the grumpy veteran agent with an unrevealed past that made her that way. As someone else said. You get a seasoned actor and then give her as few lines as possible and no expression. To fill out the stereotypical team roles: The dedicated and talented specialist, the nerdy/quirky scientists, and then the wise-cracking newcomer who might be a double-agent who has conflicting loyalties.

You could forgive the formulaic characters if they were given more personality and interaction. Perhaps everything and everyone will gel together as the season goes on (hopefully). I think Buffy and Firefly developed a cult following because the characters were all given personalities that people could connect with. Storylines come and go, but, ultimately, you tune back in for the characters.
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post #187 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 03:58 PM
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The problem with these types of shows to me is they are always in live/death situations every week yet always escape relatively unscathed.

Yea i know theres no show if they get bumped off but cmon.

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post #188 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 04:22 PM
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I have to say the Jackson cameo really surprised me. I honestly never expected any big names to show up on this show, but now short of Robert Downey Jr. I could see any of the other Avengers cast showing up because they are not as big a name as the other two.
Fury has to show up every now and then, as director, don't you think? The Avengers don't have to, they are outsiders compared to this group. I'm sure some will eventually.
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post #189 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 04:30 PM
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I can see Smulders having a recurring role as HIMYM winds down but the only hero I can see making an appearance is Iron Man in full armor and having Downey do some voiceover work. Then again with most of the Iron Man suit being CGI the show might not even have the resources to pull off that appearance.


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post #190 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 04:56 PM
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I can see Smulders having a recurring role as HIMYM winds down but the only hero I can see making an appearance is Iron Man in full armor and having Downey do some voiceover work. Then again with most of the Iron Man suit being CGI the show might not even have the resources to pull off that appearance.
On the other hand, being all CGI, they might be able to recycle some of the footage and composite him into whatever scene they require for the wide shots - then cut to a head and shoulders shot for the dialog so they can use a physical suit from the chest up.
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post #191 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 05:27 PM
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The problem with these types of shows to me is they are always in live/death situations every week yet always escape relatively unscathed.

Yea i know theres no show if they get bumped off but cmon.

That's hardly the most implausible aspect of a show set in a universe where being bitten by a radioactive spider can give you superpowers, among other absurdities. There are more pressing matters requiring the suspension of disbelief than the main cast's perpetual imperviousness to harm in a fantasy show such as this.
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post #192 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 08:13 PM
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What's an LMD?

I assume "The Vision" is a character in the Avengers universe?

Anyway, I'm with most of the other people here - not horrible but not great. It's no Firefly.

Is there a list out there of all the Avenger/Marvel in-jokes/easter eggs from each show? That might provide some amusement for those of us who aren't totally comic-savvy.





LMD = Life Model Decoy. Yes, The Vision is a popular Marvel character. My theory is the real Coulson is really dead, & they made this android to take his place. Only they forgot to tell him that he's an adroid & when he finds/figures it out, shenanigans will ensue. tongue.gif

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post #193 of 3269 Old 10-03-2013, 09:16 PM
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LMD = Life Model Decoy. Yes, The Vision is a popular Marvel character. My theory is the real Coulson is really dead, & they made this android to take his place. Only they forgot to tell him that he's an adroid & when he finds/figures it out, shenanigans will ensue. tongue.gif
That's the only reason I'll keep watching.

Kaboom.
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post #194 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 01:56 AM
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LMD = Life Model Decoy. Yes, The Vision is a popular Marvel character. My theory is the real Coulson is really dead, & they made this android to take his place. Only they forgot to tell him that he's an adroid & when he finds/figures it out, shenanigans will ensue. tongue.gif
That's the only reason I'll keep watching.

From the quote in the latest episode, he seems to be aware of it on some level. She said the whole plane and young team was like a mid-life crisis, and he replied, more like an after-life crisis. That hints he is aware of SOMETHING. His comments about being stabbed through the chest also sound like he is aware of what happened.

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post #195 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 02:05 AM
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Coulson was probably referring to the comment he made in the first episode when he said he had been dead for 20 seconds (I forget the exact number), so he knows he was technically dead but is probably unaware that he might not actually have been revived.


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post #196 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 04:01 AM
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Well that was generally horrible. Caught up now...

Nice to see Ron Glass! Totally didn't place him at first.

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post #197 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:10 AM
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This show needs to decide if it wants to be serious, or campy - it's trying to be both and it's not working in the least bit. This past episode's plot and style would've fit right in as an episode of Chuck, and at least with that, they don't take themselves seriously and the campi-ness is intentional.

As it stands, the show feels so shallow, and the characters are all stereotypes with no depth to them.
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post #198 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:40 AM
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From the quote in the latest episode, he seems to be aware of it on some level. She said the whole plane and young team was like a mid-life crisis, and he replied, more like an after-life crisis. That hints he is aware of SOMETHING. His comments about being stabbed through the chest also sound like he is aware of what happened.

He knows that he died in the Battle of New York, he just thinks that SHIELD doctors were able to revive him and he recuperate in Tahiti. IF the LMD theory is true.
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post #199 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 01:43 PM
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Disagree completely. This is watered down and ABC audience palatable stuff. It's not cult, it's just not clever or alienating enough. The show is playing to those who managed somehow not to see The Avengers. That's why there are multiple dialog references explaining what happened in the movies and everything they introduce comes with a footnote to explain what it is.

If it was aimed at the "loyal" comic base it wouldn't need all the empty casting choices either. That audience would be quite happy with a cast full of adults.

To be fair... the "loyal" comic base is 50-100,000 people at most month-to-month... so the show would be dead before they started filming IF that was the only audience they could get!

Also... while it seems nice to think "Everybody saw Iron Man and the Avengers" because they made a lot of money... there is a larger TV audience out there than a movie audience... so it behooves them to appeal to that larger potential audience and hold their hand a little bit to get started. I don't mind that. Most of these are new characters that we all need to get to know anyway.

"Cult" and "alienating" shows tend to have smaller audiences and get cancelled... so I can't blame them for not going there...

All that said... I still don't think they are going for the big audience either. I think they just want a little buzz, and a place to try out things and to advertise their movie-universe. I hope the show also gets good on its own... but I think it has a place as the bridge between movies to keep the concept in the public's eye until the next big movie hits.
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post #200 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 01:56 PM
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Also... while it seems nice to think "Everybody saw Iron Man and the Avengers" because they made a lot of money... there is a larger TV audience out there than a movie audience... so it behooves them to appeal to that larger potential audience and hold their hand a little bit to get started. I don't mind that. Most of these are new characters that we all need to get to know anyway.

"Cult" and "alienating" shows tend to have smaller audiences and get cancelled... so I can't blame them for not going there...

Your initial comment was "it has the "cult" feel to me, where it will develop a small but loyal following.... but then, I can't imagine anyone really had dreams of this being a smash hit. It is written for a smaller loyal audience " but now you are saying you think the show is aiming for a larger audience and not trying to be a cult show? So which is it? Do you think this show is aiming for mass appeal or a niche audience of superhero fans?

As for it's aspirations, the show has had massive promotional push for months (viral marketing started in May and is now international) and a pilot that cost a reported $12 million. So I think ABC are expecting a significant return on their investment.


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post #201 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 02:02 PM
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As someone else said. You get a seasoned actor and then give her as few lines as possible and no expression.

That was me, but if you look back on the first page on this thread you totally nailed her character before the show even aired. biggrin.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472730/abcs-joss-whedon-marvel-cinema-universe-tie-in-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d#post_23318066


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post #202 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 02:03 PM
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Something about the way he ALWAYS responds to Tahiti by saying "it's a magical place" almost makes it feel PROGRAMMED. I thought clone of my own accord, not knowing Marvel's propensity to life model decoys, but a friend told me about it and seeing the arguments here, I'd buy into the theory. I certainly do not think it is the original Coulson.

As to any of the Avengers showing up...I don't know. I seem to think I read at some point that--much in the same way Smallville had a no fly rule--this show had a no main stream superhero rule. Of course, even if I did read that, it could just have been stated to throw us off the track. Given what it took to get RDJ back, I doubt he'd show up on the TV show. Yah...I just don't see it beyond SLJ.
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post #203 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 02:10 PM
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As for it's aspirations, the show has had massive promotional push for months (viral marketing started in May and is now international) and a pilot that cost a reported $12 million. So I think ABC are expecting a significant return on their investment.

Then they should have made a better show. wink.gif

Facetiousness aside, I expressed doubts that a show set in a superhero universe and constantly referencing superheroes would do well if they never featured any, you know, superheroes. So far, it's just been another spy show with a plane but not nearly as compelling as 'Alias', for example.

The Marvel films have set a fairly high bar, one that can't be matched on a weekly TV show budget. On paper, this probably seemed like a pretty good, can't miss idea. And it may still be, but continuing audience erosion on a par with last week's will soon cause this airborne bus to crash & burn.
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post #204 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 02:46 PM
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Then they should have made a better show. wink.gif

continuing audience erosion on a par with last week's will soon cause this airborne bus to crash & burn.

At least no fish will be harmed in the process. wink.gif
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post #205 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:06 PM
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What I find a bit amusing is that the criticisms of this show could have also been leveled at Firefly which is now a beloved show. I hope the majority of tv watchers can appreciate Joss Whedon's vision in real time and not merely nostalgically.

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post #206 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:19 PM
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If ABC did anything right with this show, it was slapping Joss Whedon's name on it, even if Joss is as uninvolved with this as Stephen King is with Under the Dome.
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post #207 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:48 PM
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What I find a bit amusing is that the criticisms of this show could have also been leveled at Firefly which is now a beloved show.

That makes no sense at all. Out of the gate Firefly had a uniformly excellent cast with memorable characters, snappy and irreverent dialog and unconventional writing. I thought the premise was gimmicky but the dialog was first rate.

SHIELD has a bland cast, dull dialog and forgettable, generic characters.


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post #208 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 06:52 PM
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If ABC did anything right with this show, it was slapping Joss Whedon's name on it, even if Joss is as uninvolved with this as Stephen King is with Under the Dome.

As evidenced by the number of posts in this thread who seem to think that this is Joss Whedon's baby, when the heavy lifting is being done by other people. When Joss gets a sole writing credit on an episode then we might be able to see a difference.


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post #209 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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That makes no sense at all. Out of the gate Firefly had a uniformly excellent cast with memorable characters, snappy and irreverent dialog and unconventional writing. I thought the premise was gimmicky but the dialog was first rate.

SHIELD has a bland cast, dull dialog and forgettable, generic characters.

And who thought that at the time? No one knew the cast at the time other than the fact that several of the actors had been on Buffy and/or Angel. The ratings were terrible and very few people got the idea or Joss' mix of drama and clever comedy. In two shows you are already declaring the cast bland and the dialog dull.

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post #210 of 3269 Old 10-04-2013, 08:04 PM
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I am now a Firefly fan (a Flan). But I remember watching a few minutes of the episode where they were transporting cattle and it just looked strange and I flipped the channel.
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