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post #91 of 730 Old 07-28-2013, 11:44 AM
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Watching, I was thinking how nice it was seeing Lea being one of the good guys. Of course I was sure he would eventually be revealed to be a villian, which made me certain his storyline would continue...and then he's dead. Perfect timing, doing it just when the character was growing likeable.
Kinda ironic, ain't it?wink.gif

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post #92 of 730 Old 07-28-2013, 10:56 PM
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I knew I had a feeling like he was going to eventually be a good guy... to bad they had to kill him off to prove me right smile.gif

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post #93 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 06:56 AM
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Did I miss an episode? Or more likely forget stuff. Who and what is the backstory on Escher? I 1st remember seeing him when Keira's old cop boss introduced him to her.
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post #94 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 07:52 AM
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hi,
I am watching this show and absolutely love it,

finally something on SyFy that is actually worth watching
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post #95 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 08:16 AM
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I knew I had a feeling like he was going to eventually be a good guy... to bad they had to kill him off to prove me right smile.gif

I'll never doubt you again. smile.gif

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post #96 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 08:33 AM
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Did I miss an episode? Or more likely forget stuff. Who and what is the backstory on Escher? I 1st remember seeing him when Keira's old cop boss introduced him to her.

I'm perplexed by that guy as well. Who is he? Have they told us? If so, I don't recall.
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post #97 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 11:07 AM
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I'm perplexed by that guy as well. Who is he? Have they told us? If so, I don't recall.

As near as I can, tell he's a "freelancer" (another time traveler) who wound up either founding (or appropriating) Alec's (SadTech) main future competitor (corporation) in in the past/current time frame ... Bonus points if you can actually follow that sentence. biggrin.gif

Name of the company is Piron (or something similar) ... you see the name/logo plastered all over the background visuals.
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post #98 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 11:33 AM
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It was explained somewhat (they left it vague deliberately IMO) in an earlier episode.
IIRC, he is a time-traveler with some kind of organization.

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post #99 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 12:15 PM
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Well, that certainly makes it clear smile.gif
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post #100 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 02:31 PM
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I'm glad that those of us in that other thread aren't the only ones who feel like they've left something out with the introduction of Escher. I think he got briefly mentioned at the end of the first season, but in the second they suddenly made him prominent as though they expected us to know who he was and what his motives were. The writing on this show is spotty and unclear at times, unfortunately.
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post #101 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 03:20 PM
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I'm glad that those of us in that other thread aren't the only ones who feel like they've left something out with the introduction of Escher. I think he got briefly mentioned at the end of the first season, but in the second they suddenly made him prominent as though they expected us to know who he was and what his motives were. The writing on this show is spotty and unclear at times, unfortunately.

Agreed. I like the show despite its mediocre writing and ridiculous gunfights where nobody gets hit. I really like our heroine as she's portrayed. She exudes mothering towards Alex who's a subconscious substitute for her son. And Alex is well done as a character and well acted.
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post #102 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 03:48 PM
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Agreed. I like the show despite its mediocre writing and ridiculous gunfights where nobody gets hit. I really like our heroine as she's portrayed. She exudes mothering towards Alex who's a subconscious substitute for her son. And Alex is well done as a character and well acted.
+1

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post #103 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 03:54 PM
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Agreed. I like the show despite its mediocre writing and ridiculous gunfights where nobody gets hit.

The fact that bad guys can't hit the broad side of a barn when shooting at the good guys is a staple of television drama. This show is no different there. But where it is different is in how well the fight scenes are choreographed and filmed. Among the best I've seen. I actually get a sense of anxiety and danger from them that's pretty rare when TV characters start mixing it up.
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post #104 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 04:52 PM
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The fact that bad guys can't hit the broad side of a barn when shooting at the good guys is a staple of television drama. This show is no different there. But where it is different is in how well the fight scenes are choreographed and filmed. Among the best I've seen. I actually get a sense of anxiety and danger from them that's pretty rare when TV characters start mixing it up.

No, these Canadians are another order of magnitude worse shooters than Hollywood.
Agree completely about the excellent fight sequences though. Some unheralded fight sequence director is doing an outstanding job.
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post #105 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 06:55 PM
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I'm really enjoying this series. I know it has flaws and is not perfect, but I find it to be fun and creative. I thought the suit enacting a psych eval when she attacked a cop a couple episodes ago was brilliant.
bulls likes this.
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post #106 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 07:01 PM
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No, these Canadians are another order of magnitude worse shooters than Hollywood.
Agree completely about the excellent fight sequences though. Some unheralded fight sequence director is doing an outstanding job.

Sometimes actors can really sell a fight scene too. Often, the actors are concentrating so hard on their blocking, moves, and hitting their marks for the cameras that they look kind of disinterested in the fact that they're supposed to be fighting for their lives. Jennifer Garner was really good at selling it on 'Alias'. You could see the fear on her face when she was battling a particularly worthy foe.
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post #107 of 730 Old 07-29-2013, 11:16 PM
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Sometimes actors can really sell a fight scene too. Often, the actors are concentrating so hard on their blocking, moves, and hitting their marks for the cameras that they look kind of disinterested in the fact that they're supposed to be fighting for their lives. Jennifer Garner was really good at selling it on 'Alias'. You could see the fear on her face when she was battling a particularly worthy foe.
Mmmmmm.....Jennifer Garner....

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post #108 of 730 Old 08-01-2013, 10:23 AM
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Renewed for a third season.

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post #109 of 730 Old 08-01-2013, 10:37 AM
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Yippie! smile.gif

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post #110 of 730 Old 08-01-2013, 11:36 AM
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Yippie! smile.gif
Ditto that.smile.gif

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post #111 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 10:12 AM
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Last night's episode was one of the best yet. Kiera as cold blooded killer was something to see, even if she didn't go through with it. And I like how they left it an open question whether she did the right or wrong thing...Has the captain(?) gone over to the dark side? Who the heck are the good guys, anyways? smile.gif Carlos seems to be the moral compass now.

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post #112 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 10:34 AM
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If Kiera kills Julian, wouldn't that change the whole course of history, including perhaps her own birth? Doesn't seem like she's thinking it through enough. Good thing Carlos is around to keep her from possibly wiping herself from existence.
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post #113 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 11:01 AM
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If Kiera kills Julian, wouldn't that change the whole course of history, including perhaps her own birth? Doesn't seem like she's thinking it through enough. Good thing Carlos is around to keep her from possibly wiping herself from existence.

I don't think she thought it through at all-it was a gut decision. The Hitler analogy was apt on multiple levels-what if you could prevent the Holocast and World War 2 by merely killing one guy in cold blood? That seems an easy question to answer but the beauty of this show is they showed its not as cut and dry as one may think. Is an evil act justified by leading to a greater good? And if Kiera is justified killing Julian, isn't Liber8 also right to sacrifice innocent lives for the sake of freedom? As Alex said, the timeline could already been changed, there is no way to know what Julian might become...and as she worried herself, she may have unwittingly caused him to become a monster...

The writers have also not let us know if its even possible to change history. Its a common theme in some time travel stories that everything still turns out the same no matter what the time traveler does to try to change it. They may even cause what they are trying to prevent...this is beginning to remind me a lot of Fringe...

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post #114 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 02:35 PM
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I think this episode was the first one that really gave us an answer. They have been dancing around the "who are the good guys" notion... but based on the epilogue, that sure seems like Julian is the good guy in that scenario... it looked like the scene was about how corporations were enslaving people and Julian freed them, though it killed them, because the implants could not be removed...

Granted, Liber8 would appear to have gone off-message at some point in the future... from Julian saving people from enslavement to Liber8 just killing people in the way... but it looks like we have the first sign that Kiera is going to be thinking about which side she should be on IF more of this stuff comes to light.

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post #115 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 03:12 PM
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The plot is getting more convoluted and that is a good thing.

One of the strongest episodes yet.

This "can you change the future thru the past" is kinduva silly IMO.
Keira is going to do more harm than good.

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post #116 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

If Kiera kills Julian, wouldn't that change the whole course of history, including perhaps her own birth? Doesn't seem like she's thinking it through enough. Good thing Carlos is around to keep her from possibly wiping herself from existence.

I don't think she thought it through at all-it was a gut decision. The Hitler analogy was apt on multiple levels-what if you could prevent the Holocast and World War 2 by merely killing one guy in cold blood? That seems an easy question to answer but the beauty of this show is they showed its not as cut and dry as one may think. Is an evil act justified by leading to a greater good? And if Kiera is justified killing Julian, isn't Liber8 also right to sacrifice innocent lives for the sake of freedom? As Alex said, the timeline could already been changed, there is no way to know what Julian might become...and as she worried herself, she may have unwittingly caused him to become a monster...

The writers have also not let us know if its even possible to change history. Its a common theme in some time travel stories that everything still turns out the same no matter what the time traveler does to try to change it. They may even cause what they are trying to prevent...this is beginning to remind me a lot of Fringe...

I believe the writers are beholden to the Prime Directive.
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post #117 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 06:17 PM
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With this last revelation from the future about the evil corporations taking control and implanting people with chips that essentially make them zombified slaves for life, I think the show may have gone off the rails a bit. It's sci-fi and it has heretofore depicted a certain kind of dystopian future that was actually believable. And plausibility is important - it's what separates the men from the boys in the science fiction world. This show did that pretty well. Up to now.

It's possible we're kind of on the track to corporate rule now. Greater income inequality is already leading to a stratified society and perhaps, in time, to a kind of caste system. And it will all be perfectly legal and legit and the illusion of democracy will be maintained. I can see the kind of world Kiera will inhabit. It's not pretty, but it's not the kind of fascist re-writing of the current system, a complete abandonment of human and civil rights, that was portrayed in the last episode. I can't picture a situation like that ever coming to pass here (and absolutely never in Canada fercrissake), and certainly not in a mere 20 years time.

Wish they hadn't gone there. They were doing fine with a well-conceived plotline up to now, and Julian could have become a great leader of the resistance, and everything could have evolved organically into Kiera's world in 2087 or whenever. What's funny is I have an easier time accepting time travel and her super-suit than the slave-labor-fueled dystopia we saw depicted in this last episode.
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post #118 of 730 Old 08-03-2013, 08:55 PM
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The plot is getting more convoluted and that is a good thing.



This "can you change the future thru the past" is kinduva silly IMO.
.

Its also the premise of the show. Liber8 is trying to do just that, and Keira is trying to prevent it.

.

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post #119 of 730 Old 08-04-2013, 12:06 AM
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I believe the writers are beholden to the Prime Directive.
Nice one.wink.gif

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And plausibility is important - it's what separates the men from the boys in the science fiction world.
Other than Pixar and other animated stuff, it is important in EVERY movie genre IMO.

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It's possible we're kind of on the track to corporate rule now. Greater income inequality is already leading to a stratified society and perhaps, in time, to a kind of caste system. And it will all be perfectly legal and legit and the illusion of democracy will be maintained. I can see the kind of world Kiera will inhabit. It's not pretty, but it's not the kind of fascist re-writing of the current system, a complete abandonment of human and civil rights, that was portrayed in the last episode. I can't picture a situation like that ever coming to pass here (and absolutely never in Canada fercrissake), and certainly not in a mere 20 years time.
How about 40, 50, 60 years?

I have no doubt it will eventually happen.
Americans aren't really known for violent civil disobedience....as long as we have our chocolate ice cream, TV, and beer, there will be no massive push-back from the Great Unwashed.

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What's funny is I have an easier time accepting time travel and her super-suit than the slave-labor-fueled dystopia we saw depicted in this last episode.
Ye of little faith....

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Its also the premise of the show. Liber8 is trying to do just that, and Keira is trying to prevent it.
True, but this sci-fi trope is getting long in the tooth.
We need more creative writing.....

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post #120 of 730 Old 08-04-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

With this last revelation from the future about the evil corporations taking control and implanting people with chips that essentially make them zombified slaves for life, I think the show may have gone off the rails a bit. It's sci-fi and it has heretofore depicted a certain kind of dystopian future that was actually believable. And plausibility is important - it's what separates the men from the boys in the science fiction world. This show did that pretty well. Up to now.

It's possible we're kind of on the track to corporate rule now. Greater income inequality is already leading to a stratified society and perhaps, in time, to a kind of caste system. And it will all be perfectly legal and legit and the illusion of democracy will be maintained. I can see the kind of world Kiera will inhabit. It's not pretty, but it's not the kind of fascist re-writing of the current system, a complete abandonment of human and civil rights, that was portrayed in the last episode. I can't picture a situation like that ever coming to pass here (and absolutely never in Canada fercrissake), and certainly not in a mere 20 years time.

Wish they hadn't gone there. They were doing fine with a well-conceived plotline up to now, and Julian could have become a great leader of the resistance, and everything could have evolved organically into Kiera's world in 2087 or whenever. What's funny is I have an easier time accepting time travel and her super-suit than the slave-labor-fueled dystopia we saw depicted in this last episode.

Great post. And you're right, damn it. A major misstep.

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