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post #181 of 220 Old 01-16-2014, 11:59 AM
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The show made it to the end of the run even though it started to become serialized and extremely heavy on the fantasy and CGI demons and it's back next (this?) year. Take the small win where you can. wink.gif
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post #182 of 220 Old 01-18-2014, 07:23 PM
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I don't mind short seasons if they are planned that way. I hate shows that go into a season as a short one then get more episodes which screws with the pacing.

I am fine with 10-13 episodes in a season if it's a known thing going in... so they can pace and plan and build to a finale.

I love me some 20-25 episode shows... but admittedly there is some filler and some clunkers in those longer seasons... IF we get a solid 13 episode season of quality control, I'll take that.

I think of something like Orphan Black... that was solid episode after episode... and it ended and I thought "wow, I'm sad I have to wait until next year for more"... but I'm secretly glad that they didn't try to pad that plot out.

In reality... we would get the same over-arching plot... but 10 more episodes, which means more filler and random subplots that go nowhere.

IF they have 20 solid episodes for a story, go for it... but don't stretch it just because.

I can be happy with 10-13 Sleepy Hollow episodes, then let FOX fill out the rest of the season with another show of 10-13 episodes... I'm cool with that.

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post #183 of 220 Old 01-19-2014, 05:31 AM
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I like shorter seasons because there's just too damn much to watch and there's only so many entertainment hours in the day. And, I know this is crazy, but I still occasionally like to read. I'm almost to the point where I just won't watch a 22 episode broadcast show because I can't afford the time commitment.
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post #184 of 220 Old 01-19-2014, 06:45 AM
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I prefer quality over quantity. Don't fall into the trap that some restaurants make. More is not always better.
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post #185 of 220 Old 01-19-2014, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

The show made it to the end of the run even though it started to become serialized and extremely heavy on the fantasy and CGI demons and it's back next (this?) year. Take the small win where you can. wink.gif
I definitely prefer quality over quantity and 13 episode seasons are just about right. What I'm disappointed in is the replacement is just a massive drop in quality, it's as if the time slot fell into a black hole for the rest of the TV season.
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post #186 of 220 Old 01-19-2014, 12:16 PM
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Maybe 'The Following' will be improved this season...? They had to have heard the complaints. Perhaps they did some re-tooling.

I stuck it out last year, so I guess I'm in. Hate to abandon a serialized drama mid-stream unless it's completely irredeemable. Plus, they've got this gal joining the cast. I fell in love with her in the underrated Showtime series 'Boss'....



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post #187 of 220 Old 01-19-2014, 12:28 PM
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Maybe 'The Following' will be improved this season...? They had to have heard the complaints. Perhaps they did some re-tooling.

I stuck it out last year, so I guess I'm in. Hate to abandon a serialized drama mid-stream unless it's completely irredeemable. Plus, they've got this gal joining the cast. I fell in love with her in the underrated Showtime series 'Boss'....


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Yeah, she'll be worth checking it out, but the promos for the show are doing nothing for me, people running around with Joe Carroll masks on? Really? It just seems silly piled onto stupid.

Hopefully TPTB did listen though and it won't be as cringe-worthy as it was in the first series. Even accepting the fact that it's just a TV show, it's hard to accept that people such as the FBI agents could be as brainless as they have been in this show.

Anyway, the first episode airs tonight! tongue.gif
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post #188 of 220 Old 01-20-2014, 10:54 PM
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Well now, *that* was a season finale. The last 15 minutes had us all glued to our sets.

Henry Parish was Ichabod & Katrina's son!?! Didn't see that coming!

A few questions came up in our post-show discussions:

1) early in the series, Paul Revere is chased by a rider (or all 4 riders?). Which horseman, and if it was death, wasn't that before Abraham was turned into Death?
2) did Moloch really need the map for something in Purgatory, or was that just a feint? I can't think of anything in purgatory that Moloch needed it for, and clearly he can already move between there and our world freely
3) What exactly was the meaning/relevance of breaking the 2nd seal? Since War was already out, what was it supposed to do? (they probably said this and I just don't remember)

And of course - how are they going to get out of this situation to start season 2? smile.gif Fall 2014 feels a long way off now.


EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention, I wonder if you go back and re-watch Season 1 knowing what happens in the finale, how obvious (or not) Henry Parish's actions are. For instance, it was a major clue in the penultimate season 1 episode when he burnt his hand on the cardinal's necklace (and then healed himself!). In retrospect, pretty obvious!
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post #189 of 220 Old 01-21-2014, 12:21 AM
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I did not see that end coming. I thought maybe Katrina was gonna be bad. But not Walter. Well done.

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post #190 of 220 Old 01-21-2014, 05:12 AM
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I did not see that end coming. I thought maybe Katrina was gonna be bad. But not Walter. Well done.

Ditto. Figure 200 years of torture would turn her. But she stayed true. Nice twist to find out the 2nd horseman was really the first! The captain turning himself in, Zombie Washington.
Can't wait for next year.
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post #191 of 220 Old 01-21-2014, 12:40 PM
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...
2) did Moloch really need the map for something in Purgatory, or was that just a feint? I can't think of anything in purgatory that Moloch needed it for, and clearly he can already move between there and our world freely
3) What exactly was the meaning/relevance of breaking the 2nd seal? Since War was already out, what was it supposed to do? (they probably said this and I just don't remember)
...
For #2, I think that it falls to the interpretation, like the prophesy. Moloch did need/want the map to win the war -- only he wanted the Witnesses to use it. If Abby had burned it before Ichabod saw it, things might have been different.

For #3, I just assumed that completed the transformation into War -- didn't he change immediately following it? It was mildly amusing the way they depicted it though: just a clay seal, no box, bottle, or container of magic fairy dust (or mushrooms given Walter's proclivities).

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post #192 of 220 Old 01-21-2014, 01:04 PM
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Well now, *that* was a season finale. The last 15 minutes had us all glued to our sets...Fall 2014 feels a long way off now.

WOW eek.gif WOW, sure didn't see the Henry reveal coming. Good work showrunners. Where oh where do we go now? Ichabod buried once again, Abby in a dollhouse, the Captain under arrest and Sulu under rubble. It's gonna be a long wait until September.

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post #193 of 220 Old 01-21-2014, 08:23 PM
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What a terrific season finale. I actually yelled out "What???" at the surprise reveal. Fun show.

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post #194 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 04:50 AM
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I'm gonna' need a primer. redface.gif Lots of exposition there at the end. You guys are waaaay ahead of me. Still, this show, silly as it is, has become a favorite of mine.
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post #195 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 07:19 AM
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That was a really good finale, and a very fun series. Guess he wasn't Walter all along, he was Walternate.
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post #196 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 08:08 AM
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Their son is evil. He's EVIL.biggrin.gif

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post #197 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 09:58 AM
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I might have to watch the end again. A lot of info.

What did Katrina do with all her free time in Purgatory?

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post #198 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 10:05 AM
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I might have to watch the end again. A lot of info.

What did Katrina do with all her free time in Purgatory?

Make Films ... smile.gif

I guess they could set up Walter to eventually be "saved" by his parents somehow, leading to the end of his master .....
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post #199 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 10:07 AM
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Once they added the "Crane had a son" subplot, I felt sure Henry was going to be his son. That didn't surprise me. It also didn't surprise me that he was a bad guy... they already set that up with the backstory... What did surprise me was having him be one of the Horsemen. I suppose I should have seen that coming, once they did the reveal on Death being Crane's old friend... but I didn't see it coming, so they surprised me with that part.

I wonder, going forward... no only are the two Horsemen revealed to be people inhabited by demon/spirits... but two people with VERY close ties to Crane... so... will they continue that path, and if so... where do they find 2 more people to tie to Crane for the other 2 remaining Horsemen at some point?

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post #200 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 11:33 AM
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no only are the two Horsemen revealed to be people inhabited by demon/spirits... but two people with VERY close ties to Crane... so... will they continue that path, and if so... where do they find 2 more people to tie to Crane for the other 2 remaining Horsemen at some point?
Clancy Brown as a horsema

Clancy Brown - stitch his head back on and make him the Kurgan, er ... another horseman!
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post #201 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 01:26 PM
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There can be only one!!!!



Yeah so, anyway, great finale. Show got better as it went along, that usually doesn't happen. So I'll stick with it.
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post #202 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 05:42 PM
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On the weird...

When this show comes on... just before it comes on, the quick title card and the narrator voice, there is a quick snippet of music. Every time I hear that music, my mind goes to "I was made for loving you baby, you were made for loving me"... it fits... though my mind could be warped since I recently watched Moulin Rouge again! smile.gif

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post #203 of 220 Old 01-22-2014, 10:03 PM
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Oh and I forgot to mention, I wonder if you go back and re-watch Season 1 knowing what happens in the finale, how obvious (or not) Henry Parish's actions are. For instance, it was a major clue in the penultimate season 1 episode when he burnt his hand on the cardinal's necklace (and then healed himself!). In retrospect, pretty obvious!

I thought his hand wound was actually him being cursed by the hex on the beads. From that point on I expected Henry to be possessed by something but the revelation of him being the son totally came out of the blue. Nicely played Sleepy Hollow. It made up for the fact that I liked Henry as a good guy and I'm sad to see him go bad. Still, Henry was very Walterish so it does give John Noble something to get his teeth into now, as evidenced by his final scenes.

Purgatory was woeful though. Hallucinatory dreamscapes are always tricky to pull off but the camerawork and direction made everything look spectacularly flat. The woods looked like some extras just wandering around a backlot and the dollhouse just looked like a cheap set. They didn't even add spooky fog or weird camera trickery to try and improve things.

There was one thing in purgatory Moloch needed and that was Katrina. He couldn't get to her while she possessed the amulet and in the real world she was powerless to be handed over to Abraham. I can't remember or not if Abraham made a deal that he would become Death in exchange for Katrina. In which case this episode fulfilled Moloch's end of the bargain..


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post #204 of 220 Old 01-23-2014, 09:17 AM
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I thought his hand wound was actually him being cursed by the hex on the beads.

Isn't that what I said? (just trying to figure out if you are making an observation that I'm too obtuse to understand, or if we're in agreement).
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There was one thing in purgatory Moloch needed and that was Katrina. He couldn't get to her while she possessed the amulet and in the real world she was powerless to be handed over to Abraham. I can't remember or not if Abraham made a deal that he would become Death in exchange for Katrina. In which case this episode fulfilled Moloch's end of the bargain..

Right, that makes sense, I had forgotten all about the amulet.
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post #205 of 220 Old 01-23-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
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I thought his hand wound was actually him being cursed by the hex on the beads.

Isn't that what I said? (just trying to figure out if you are making an observation that I'm too obtuse to understand, or if we're in agreement).

I didn't see the wound as a clue that Henry was evil all season or that he was their son, just a late addition to the plot just to get the wheels in motion for the final episode. I wasn't expecting him to stay evil either. Just a temporary takeover until the hex wore off.


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post #206 of 220 Old 01-23-2014, 10:40 AM
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I didn't see the wound as a clue that Henry was evil all season or that he was their son, just a late addition to the plot just to get the wheels in motion for the final episode. I wasn't expecting him to stay evil either. Just a temporary takeover until the hex wore off.

Right, at the time I didn't either. What I was suggesting is that, now knowing what we know, go back and re-watch all of S1 and see if anything Parish-related is more obviously because he's the Horseman of War. I bet we'll find more than we expect!
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post #207 of 220 Old 01-23-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
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I didn't see the wound as a clue that Henry was evil all season or that he was their son, just a late addition to the plot just to get the wheels in motion for the final episode. I wasn't expecting him to stay evil either. Just a temporary takeover until the hex wore off.

Right, at the time I didn't either. What I was suggesting is that, now knowing what we know, go back and re-watch all of S1 and see if anything Parish-related is more obviously because he's the Horseman of War. I bet we'll find more than we expect!

Sorry, I get what you mean now. Totally misinterpreted what you were saying.

I would be interested to go back and watch the Henry arc now to see if it actually works. Sure, they dropped in some flashback one-liners but I would like to see if his actions made any sense considering he was helping Crane and at times seemed to be in danger


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post #208 of 220 Old 01-26-2014, 07:02 PM
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It all makes sense to me in that Moloch needed the witnesses to tear the fabric between worlds by going to purgatory in the first place.  Thus why Walter/War helped them find the map which would allow this to happen.  Walter says as much and now that it's been torn the armies of evil can now cross over to our world more easily.  Unless I misunderstood.  :)


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post #209 of 220 Old 01-27-2014, 10:09 AM
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It all makes sense to me in that Moloch needed the witnesses to tear the fabric between worlds by going to purgatory in the first place.  Thus why Walter/War helped them find the map which would allow this to happen.  Walter says as much and now that it's been torn the armies of evil can now cross over to our world more easily.  Unless I misunderstood.  smile.gif

Yeah, I got the same impression... and in the flashbacks they showed of him talking about crosswords "lead you one way" and distract... I took that the same way... Moloch did need the map to win the war... but Moloch needed them to use the map, he couldn't use it. He knew how to get in and out of the underworld... but it was one of those doors that needed to be opened from the other side, and only the good guys could open the door from the other side.

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post #210 of 220 Old 01-29-2014, 03:33 PM
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