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post #841 of 870 Old 05-15-2015, 04:03 PM
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I assume it's all still in flux. Red could easily have changed the DNA on file OR if they get actual DNA from him he could have a person who changes out his DNA or the results... so unless he tells her definitively one way or the other and doesn't cross his hands behind his back, they can keep riding out the "is he or isn't he" plot.

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post #842 of 870 Old 05-15-2015, 04:43 PM
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I really liked the season finale. For some time it seemed to plod along just enough to hold my interest. Now they've broken out, Red, Elizabeth, and Tom are on the run and that opens up more creative possibilities, not the usual same-o, same-o. I am definitely looking forward to next season.
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post #843 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 12:11 AM
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As I understood it, the disease was genetically formulated to be harmful to the senator only and now that he is dead it's of no consequence to anyone else.
You missed my point. They framed Keen because she was the carrier, but everyone else that she came in contact with would have been infected, including her FBI coworkers. Also, you would think that she touched some of the other people at the event, yet no one else tested positive.
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post #844 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 06:18 AM
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A few observations:

1) I enjoyed the season finale, should be interesting to see where they take the story next year.

2) I hope they're not ditching the Harold Cooper character. I like him.

3) It's a given that Spader steals every scene he's in but I believe some of cast are a bit more talented than they're given credit for, including Megan Boone.
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post #845 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeKlim View Post
A few observations:

1) I enjoyed the season finale, should be interesting to see where they take the story next year.

2) I hope they're not ditching the Harold Cooper character. I like him.

3) It's a given that Spader steals every scene he's in but I believe some of cast are a bit more talented than they're given credit for, including Megan Boone.
Boone's acting isn't the real problem, it's that her character contributes nothing except a trivial backstory "mystery" that should have been wrapped up and forgotten 40 episodes ago...

Spoiler!
- we'll have to see where that takes her - I don't see how things can go back to the way they were, and IMO that's a good thing...

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post #846 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 07:13 AM
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Great finale. Great show. Fun to watch.
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post #847 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 07:57 AM
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It's a given that Spader steals every scene he's in but I believe some of cast are a bit more talented than they're given credit for, including Megan Boone.
As you say, Spader's talent is a given and he does steal every scene he is in. Like you, though, my estimate of Megan Boone's skills has gone up as the writing of her character, Lizzy Keen, has made her more interesting. Similarly, as the writers have finally told us more about Tom, I have started to enjoy Ryan Eggold's performances in the role of Tom. In the early days, when Tom was depicted as a weakfish public school teacher, I don't think the greatest actor in the world could have breathed life into the character.
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post #848 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 11:22 AM
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You missed my point. They framed Keen because she was the carrier, but everyone else that she came in contact with would have been infected, including her FBI coworkers. Also, you would think that she touched some of the other people at the event, yet no one else tested positive.
No, the disease was designed so that only Keene could be a carrier and only the senator could be infected by it. It took her DNA to be the carrier - for the disease to even work, no other human could be the carrier, and the senator's DNA to react to the virus, no other human would have been bothered by it. The creator could have sprayed everyone in that train terminal and it would not have infected any of them, only Keene because it was designed to work with her unique DNA makeup only, and in turn be effective with only the senator's unique DNA. It was like an ultra-selective designer virus/disease.

You're thinking large scale, think ultra micro-scale, it was designed to work only with the senator's DNA - a disease designed for one person out of 7 billion.
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post #849 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 12:14 PM
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No, the disease was designed so that only Keene could be a carrier and only the senator could be infected by it. It took her DNA to be the carrier - for the disease to even work, no other human could be the carrier, and the senator's DNA to react to the virus, no other human would have been bothered by it. The creator could have sprayed everyone in that train terminal and it would not have infected any of them, only Keene because it was designed to work with her unique DNA makeup only, and in turn be effective with only the senator's unique DNA. It was like an ultra-selective designer virus/disease.

You're thinking large scale, think ultra micro-scale, it was designed to work only with the senator's DNA - a disease designed for one person out of 7 billion.
Keen didn't infect the senator's son, the Russian guy did...

Edit> However, the train station video does back you up, assuming it's not doctored. At 16:49 into the episode, Andropov sprays the virus into Keen's nose. That indicates that touch was not sufficient to infect her. But it does not prove that Keen was the only possible carrier, just that her touching others would not be sufficient to transmit. The story would be cleaner and more believable if the virus was freely transmitted by touch, just not harmful except to a specific DNA target, which is what I first thought to be the premise...

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post #850 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 12:56 PM
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Also... to be perfectly blunt... why did they even go to the trouble of actually infecting Liz anyway? I mean, they are faking ALL the other records and stuff to implicate her... so why wouldn't they just fake the blood test too?

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post #851 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 02:37 PM
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Keen didn't infect the senator's son, the Russian guy did...
Right, that was the test, the dry run to see if it worked.

Andropov infected the senator's son as a test to see if it worked and it did. So then while Keene and Co were searching for Karakut, the bad guy bomber who they assume is the main objective the AG tells them to get to the train station. At the train station Andropov induces the virus onto/into Keene by touching or spraying her, I forget which it was, but bottom line she is now one of the two carriers of a virus deadly to only the senator or his son. Jump forward to the funeral, the team is searching for the bomber guy and raise the alert and whisk the senator away in a car. Keene touched the senator while this was happening and he became infected and died. Since there are no more known family members with the DNA makeup to react to the virus it essentially becomes a non-factor as it does not work on anyone else. For all we know Keene will be a carrier forever, but since the virus is not harmful to anyone else still living it's basically dead, no more virus. Other than the proof in her blood.

The whole point was to frame Keene as the senator's killer and it worked.
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post #852 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 02:45 PM
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Also... to be perfectly blunt... why did they even go to the trouble of actually infecting Liz anyway? I mean, they are faking ALL the other records and stuff to implicate her... so why wouldn't they just fake the blood test too?
The point of infecting Liz was so she could infect the senator. Just faking her blood test would not have killed the senator. When the blood work came back for the senator it would match something in Liz's blood that would prove that she infected him by touching.

The whole thing was a bit of sleight of hand orchestrated by the Cabal, watch my right hand(bomber dude) while I kill you with my left(Andropov>Liz>senator) which would implicate Liz.
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post #853 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 02:59 PM
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Also... to be perfectly blunt... why did they even go to the trouble of actually infecting Liz anyway? I mean, they are faking ALL the other records and stuff to implicate her... so why wouldn't they just fake the blood test too?
True, on the one hand Connolly wants the task force to "legitimately" find the results he's orchestrated, while at the same time planning to discredit the task force as a rogue operation. But then a guy who
Spoiler!
isn't exactly the brightest bulb - marginally believable for a suicidal zealot terrorist, but not so much for a criminal in it for personal gain...

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post #854 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 06:01 PM
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...I don't see how things can go back to the way they were, and IMO that's a good thing...
No going back after killing the FBI Director in cold blood no matter what they prove he did. The Liz character went over the line permanently, I would think.

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post #855 of 870 Old 05-16-2015, 06:10 PM
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No going back after killing the FBI Director in cold blood no matter what they prove he did. The Liz character went over the line permanently, I would think.
Actually Connolly was the AG (I'll forgo the spoiler tags). I'm surprised they set it up as such a blatant act - no self defense or other extenuating factor. Hell, it would make Raylan Givens proud!

Edit> ShowBuzzDaily has posted a surprisingly (to me) harsh review of the finale and the direction of the show in general...

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post #856 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 11:54 AM
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The point of infecting Liz was so she could infect the senator. Just faking her blood test would not have killed the senator. When the blood work came back for the senator it would match something in Liz's blood that would prove that she infected him by touching.

The whole thing was a bit of sleight of hand orchestrated by the Cabal, watch my right hand(bomber dude) while I kill you with my left(Andropov>Liz>senator) which would implicate Liz.
I know all that... but, it was also stated that the Senator was going to die one way or the other... they had contingency plans. Also, he actually died in the hospital... so for all we know, someone in the hospital actually murdered him by ensuring he wasn't properly treated for the virus.

As for Liz... with all the fake stuff they are putting in line against her, they could have still faked her blood work too and still killed the Senator with that virus. It was just icing on the cake that their Plan A actually worked with Liz actually transmitting the virus... but they could have done it a different way and still pinned it on here. That's all I was saying.

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Actually Connolly was the AG (I'll forgo the spoiler tags). I'm surprised they set it up as such a blatant act - no self defense or other extenuating factor. Hell, it would make Raylan Givens proud!
I kept thinking, surely they were recording that conversation... with the AG admitting all that stuff... I mean, it would have pretty much solved everything if they were recording all that.

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post #857 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 12:17 PM
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I kept thinking, surely they were recording that conversation... with the AG admitting all that stuff... I mean, it would have pretty much solved everything if they were recording all that.
You mean like "OK, sure, I shot the guy in cold blood, but he had it coming"? Somehow I don't think that defense would fly..

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post #858 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 01:01 PM
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You mean like "OK, sure, I shot the guy in cold blood, but he had it coming"? Somehow I don't think that defense would fly..
Haha, no, I don't think that would fly at all!
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post #859 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 01:03 PM
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I know all that... but, it was also stated that the Senator was going to die one way or the other... they had contingency plans. Also, he actually died in the hospital... so for all we know, someone in the hospital actually murdered him by ensuring he wasn't properly treated for the virus.

As for Liz... with all the fake stuff they are putting in line against her, they could have still faked her blood work too and still killed the Senator with that virus. It was just icing on the cake that their Plan A actually worked with Liz actually transmitting the virus... but they could have done it a different way and still pinned it on here. That's all I was saying.


Sure, it could have been handled that way as well, but then we wouldn't have had all the drama that TV demands!
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post #860 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 05:35 PM
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post #861 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 09:24 PM
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my estimate of Megan Boone's skills has gone up
On the boat Tom's "estimate" has gone up too.

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post #862 of 870 Old 05-17-2015, 10:00 PM
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No, the disease was designed so that only Keene could be a carrier and only the senator could be infected by it. It took her DNA to be the carrier - for the disease to even work, no other human could be the carrier, and the senator's DNA to react to the virus, no other human would have been bothered by it. The creator could have sprayed everyone in that train terminal and it would not have infected any of them, only Keene because it was designed to work with her unique DNA makeup only, and in turn be effective with only the senator's unique DNA. It was like an ultra-selective designer virus/disease.

You're thinking large scale, think ultra micro-scale, it was designed to work only with the senator's DNA - a disease designed for one person out of 7 billion.
If this is true, then I stand corrected. However, It's news to me that only Keen could be the carrier. I do not remember that being said. I thought that anyone could be the carrier, but only the senator would be affected. How was the senator's son infected? It was by contact, I think.
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post #863 of 870 Old 05-18-2015, 03:58 PM
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You mean like "OK, sure, I shot the guy in cold blood, but he had it coming"? Somehow I don't think that defense would fly..
No, as in the AG was admitting to being part of a cabal trying to rule the world, had been scamming and blackmailing Cooper, was framing and setting up Liz, and played a hand in killing the Senator... and then after admitting all that, Liz shoots him.

IF they had all that conversation on tape, seems like it would have done wonders for straightening things out.

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post #864 of 870 Old 05-18-2015, 04:03 PM
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If this is true, then I stand corrected. However, It's news to me that only Keen could be the carrier. I do not remember that being said. I thought that anyone could be the carrier, but only the senator would be affected. How was the senator's son infected? It was by contact, I think.
I think if others were carriers as well then they would have a harder time blaming the senator's death on her, a larger suspect pool would be created by having other carriers. The point was to discredit, or take down Keene as she was clearly getting in the face of the Cabal. She had to be the delivery mechanism or the whole scheme would have failed.
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post #865 of 870 Old 05-18-2015, 05:20 PM
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I think if others were carriers as well then they would have a harder time blaming the senator's death on her, a larger suspect pool would be created by having other carriers. The point was to discredit, or take down Keene as she was clearly getting in the face of the Cabal. She had to be the delivery mechanism or the whole scheme would have failed.
My take is that anyone could be a carrier, but carriers cannot contract the virus by touch, it has to be administered as it was to Keen (assuming the train station video wasn't doctored, which is iffy considering that the security guy was ordered to show it to her - I'm hazy on how that fits in).

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post #866 of 870 Old 05-18-2015, 05:35 PM
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post #867 of 870 Old 05-18-2015, 08:52 PM
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"with nonsense about shadowy evil cabals"


Yes, this for me is what warrants the biggest eyeroll when watching the series.


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post #868 of 870 Old Yesterday, 04:34 AM
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"with nonsense about shadowy evil cabals"


Yes, this for me is what warrants the biggest eyeroll when watching the series.
...and yet another reason the show was so much better early on with colorful villains like the stewmaker and alchemist...

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post #869 of 870 Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM
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(assuming the train station video wasn't doctored, which is iffy considering that the security guy was ordered to show it to her - I'm hazy on how that fits in).

Harold (her boss) was the one that instructed the boss to call security and tell them to show Keene the footage. That was legit. It wasn't part of the setup. If Harold hadn't used a favor, the security guy would have never showed Keene the footage without the proper paperwork, but his boss called and told him to give it to her.
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post #870 of 870 Old Today, 03:57 PM
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A mediocre finale to go with what will forever be a mediocre show. The scene with Liz and Connolly was laughable at best with her face and how she just poof, went into this trance. The stuff with Liz and Tom on the boat was lame. Then the alleged memory she remembered is IMO, clearly another way of these writers looking to jerk the audience around and keep prolonging the Liz father storyline that should have been dealt with a season ago. I think only the real gullible took that memory/"reveal" at face value so I suppose when the writers once again string them along they will be upset they got duped.

Then again, it is THESE writers so for all I know it is legit and they just wiped out two seasons worth of clues that go against this. I really believe the writers have no idea what the hell they are doing and are deciding things along the way instead of having a plan from the start.

I have little doubt Red is her father and it'll be remarkable if they actually tie up that storyline next season. Speaking of next season, it would actually have solid potential if not for the fact it'll probably be full of Liz drama and her acting bipolar towards Red like she always does.

The Cabal storyline could be interesting if they do it well and don't make it too outlandish. I'm of the opinion the real world is somewhat run by a select group of people (it's obvious the masses and even politicians in general have little importance on anything) so I have no issues seeing it in a show.

ROB
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