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Old 05-20-2016, 11:57 PM
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I was shocked to learn Liz lived. Shocked, I tell you, shocked.

.........

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Old 05-21-2016, 05:32 AM
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I agree with gwsat the show is on a very short leash with me when next season starts
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Old 05-21-2016, 11:37 AM
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I'm with gwsat on this. I could deal with one or the other reveal, but not both. I am waiting to find out next year that Tom and Liz are brother and sister. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
Then would this be the first occurrence of a sibling, non-forced resulting incest baby in tv history? Damn, that baby sure is cute though.

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I have to admit that I wasn't surprised by the Liz/Kirk revelation.
I still don't think that's quite the real story. Mr. Kaplan's comments in this and a previous episode suggest to me something else, ie.., Red is still the one.

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The Susan/Tom was a little more out of left field, as Famke is like 15 years older than him.
That's the first place my mind went to upon getting that revelation. How could I, and could I, make it work, to maintain some sort of livable suspension of disbelief? Talk myself into thinking that Tom's really only 25 and not 30 to 35 as he appears to be? Then couple that with the possibility that she's had the absolute best plastic surgery money can buy, etc.?

I suppose it can work if Tom is 30 years old and she is 52 years old with great plastic surgery. Or he's 28 and she's 50. Either way, that would make her around 19 years old when Tom was 3 years old in that picture.



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Old 05-21-2016, 01:33 PM
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I was shocked to learn Liz lived. Shocked, I tell you, shocked.
I was sure that she would show up in the new season, but I was surprised the reveal came up in the finale. Of course the status of her health won't be known until next season, as will on which show, the mothership or Redemption. My guess is the mothership since that would break up the Liz/Tom combo that Red prefers.
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Old 05-21-2016, 01:38 PM
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Baby dies. Tom and Liz each blame themselves. Boom 2 shows.
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Old 05-21-2016, 04:43 PM
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I suppose it can work if Tom is 30 years old and she is 52 years old with great plastic surgery. Or he's 28 and she's 50. Either way, that would make her around 19 years old when Tom was 3 years old in that picture.

Tom is 31 and she is 51.
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:54 PM
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Then would this be the first occurrence of a sibling, non-forced resulting incest baby in tv history? Damn, that baby sure is cute though.



I still don't think that's quite the real story. Mr. Kaplan's comments in this and a previous episode suggest to me something else, ie.., Red is still the one.



That's the first place my mind went to upon getting that revelation. How could I, and could I, make it work, to maintain some sort of livable suspension of disbelief? Talk myself into thinking that Tom's really only 25 and not 30 to 35 as he appears to be? Then couple that with the possibility that she's had the absolute best plastic surgery money can buy, etc.?

I suppose it can work if Tom is 30 years old and she is 52 years old with great plastic surgery. Or he's 28 and she's 50. Either way, that would make her around 19 years old when Tom was 3 years old in that picture.
????? The actor playing Tom is 31. The actress playing his mom is 51. Although to me she looks much older. She looks older than my Mom who is in her late 70's. And looks way older than my GF that is 59.
But then I guess my GFs family and mine actually look young for their ages.

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Old 05-22-2016, 01:06 PM
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It would have been great if Kirk came out in a black helmet, mask and cape and said to Lizzie "Masha, I am your father" with the appropriate heavy breathing


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Old 05-22-2016, 01:40 PM
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Damnit! Now I'm thinking about a Snickers bar...
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:13 PM
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51 seriously?
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:46 PM
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I'm reminded of the people who were sure Liz was dead because the people working for the show said so in interviews

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Old 05-23-2016, 08:35 AM
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Wait a minute....Famke's character said that Kirk hired her to kill Liz (and Baby), then he wants to save the baby? Or are we supposed to believe that Famke is lying?
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:28 AM
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I'm reminded of the people who were sure Liz was dead because the people working for the show said so in interviews
I still would have preferred that she did actually die.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:44 AM
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51 seriously?

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Old 05-23-2016, 10:55 AM
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Wait a minute....Famke's character said that Kirk hired her to kill Liz (and Baby), then he wants to save the baby? Or are we supposed to believe that Famke is lying?
I thought she said she was hired to only abduct them, not to kill them?
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:00 AM
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I thought she said she was hired to only abduct them, not to kill them?

Correct. Remember when they were in the church. Liz stood up and walked through the church with the bag of guns with a dozen red dots on her chest and back and no one shot her.

It was mentioned multiple times, that Keene was not to be harmed.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:50 PM
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Yikes - just watched and this is pretty close to a new low. I was braced for a monumentally lame fake death, but the stupidity of the rest of the episode went far beyond anything I could have imagined. Tom thought he was executing a foolproof escape while Kirk had him covered like a blanket. Then Red makes one phone call and figures out where he went. We know Tom is back for the spinoff - why on earth would the writers have Kirk order his execution when we already know it's phony?

Just when I thought the show was finally starting to get back a little of its S1 mojo they phone in possibly the worst episode ever. I thought some of Spader's mannerisms were oddly off-key - now I wonder if frustration with the abominable material might have been bleeding into his performance.

BTW the fake death went down pretty much the way we had it pegged here right after it aired...

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Old 05-23-2016, 08:27 PM
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Maybe executives can use this as Exhibit A on how to ruin a season with an unplanned pregnancy.

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Old 05-23-2016, 09:25 PM
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Maybe executives can use this as Exhibit A on how to ruin a season with an unplanned pregnancy.
I thought it made the season better. I definitely enjoyed it. It certainly elicited different emotions from me. And any show that can do that to me I would say is doing something right.

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Old 05-24-2016, 07:43 AM
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I think the IV that Kirk was getting is the driving force behind the kidnapping, etc. He has leukemia or some other terminal disease and needs a bone marrow transplant from a close relative. With Liz supposedly dead, the baby was the closest he could come. But now, he can use Tom and the baby as leverage to get Liz to donate.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:51 AM
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I'm reminded of the people who were sure Liz was dead because the people working for the show said so in interviews
It may just have been wishful thinking

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Old 05-24-2016, 10:52 AM
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I think the IV that Kirk was getting is the driving force behind the kidnapping, etc. He has leukemia or some other terminal disease and needs a bone marrow transplant from a close relative. With Liz supposedly dead, the baby was the closest he could come. But now, he can use Tom and the baby as leverage to get Liz to donate.
Makes good sense!

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Old 05-27-2016, 04:39 PM
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The business of Alexander Kirk being Liz's father, which followed on last weeks revelation that Susan Hargrave, who had offered Tom a job, is Tom's mother, had me looking for a wastebasket to throw up in. Even my nearly limitless ability to suspend disbelief was overcome by Liz's magical resurrection and the rest. Still, I'll be back next season -- at least for a while.
Did Red know or suspect that Susan was Tom's mother? I can't remember.

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Old 05-27-2016, 04:55 PM
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Did Red know or suspect that Susan was Tom's mother? I can't remember.
Reddington was the person that told Tom she was his mother.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:15 PM
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The actress playing his mom is 51. Although to me she looks much older. She looks older than my Mom who is in her late 70's. And looks way older than my GF that is 59.
Whether your family looks younger than the norm or not, are you actually saying Famke looks like she's 70? If so, see your eye doctor, stat. Your cataracts are getting really really bad. She looks FANTASTIC for her age.
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:01 PM
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Famke is my older version on Rhona Mitra (39).

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Old 05-27-2016, 09:10 PM
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Reddington was the person that told Tom she was his mother.
That's what I thought. So why in the world did Red put Tom on Lizzie prior to season 1?

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Old 05-28-2016, 07:22 PM
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That's what I thought. So why in the world did Red put Tom on Lizzie prior to season 1?
What does one have to do with the other?
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Old 05-29-2016, 01:43 PM
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That's what I thought. So why in the world did Red put Tom on Lizzie prior to season 1?
I don't think Red existed prior to season 1. Similar to what happened before "In the Beginning...".
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Old 05-30-2016, 11:29 AM
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I think the IV that Kirk was getting is the driving force behind the kidnapping, etc. He has leukemia or some other terminal disease and needs a bone marrow transplant from a close relative. With Liz supposedly dead, the baby was the closest he could come. But now, he can use Tom and the baby as leverage to get Liz to donate.
He learned that tactic from The United Way.
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