TBS speeds up Seinfeld a full 7.5 percent - here is the proof - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 09-13-2013, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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It's bad enough how much they crop it. Now I noticed what I thought was a speeding up. Turns out they speed it up a full 7.5 percent.

The test:

My computer has a tuner card. I used this tuner card to digitally record Seinfeld from Fox Chicago roughly 10 years ago (I archived the entire series). Then I found which episode was on TBS tonight. In the upper-right window is a live feed from the tuner card. The source is TBS's SD feed via Dish Network. The lower-right is video playback from the digital recording, also recorded from Dish Network in 2003. I fed the audio from both the live feed and the video clip as well as the video from the S-video out on my video card to an external DVD recorder, then uploaded the final result to youtube. After 202 seconds of playback, the TBS live feed had advanced a full 15 seconds over the recording. This amounts to nearly 2 minutes over the course of a full episode.


I lined up the windows as closely as possible so you can also see cropping. Between that and the extreme speed increase, TBS is butchering a classic.
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post #2 of 37 Old 09-13-2013, 06:21 PM
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Fairly typical of cable nets. Have you never seen a movie indicated as being "time-compressed"? If you watch Friends on Nick at Nite it can sometimes be like watching Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Example: http://www.visualdatainc.com/time_tailor.htm
Run times reduced up to 10%. All without deleting scenes or altering original content & virtually undetectable to the viewer

Yeah, as long as the viewer has never seen the original or just doesn't pay attention.


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post #3 of 37 Old 09-14-2013, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Fairly typical of cable nets. Have you never seen a movie indicated as being "time-compressed"? If you watch Friends on Nick at Nite it can sometimes be like watching Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Example: http://www.visualdatainc.com/time_tailor.htm
Run times reduced up to 10%. All without deleting scenes or altering original content & virtually undetectable to the viewer

Yeah, as long as the viewer has never seen the original or just doesn't pay attention.

Friends on Nick at Nite is fast and the sounds are all a slightly but noticeably higher pitch because Nick sourced their content from the European PAL versions which run at 25 fps vs. the NTSC versions which run at 24 fps.
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post #4 of 37 Old 09-17-2013, 02:03 AM
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Stations do this so they can cram in more and more commercials and make more money. They butcher the episode, slap screen clutter all over the screen, and saturate it with commercials just so they can make more money selling ads. If that isn't enough pay TV prices have soared to over $100 a month these days. I cut the cord 5 years ago because if this. Pay TV has been ruined by corporate greed.

TBS is no longer a Super station.

I have some old recordings of shows off of TV Land from the late 90s. Today's TV Land is a shell of its former self.

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post #5 of 37 Old 09-17-2013, 05:51 PM
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The stations have a choice, either time compression, or content removal. Which would you prefer? They are not going to show whole thing at the original rate, because they "say" that they "need" the additional commercial time. I guess they feel that using compression, they don't need to cut out any content. I don't like either one, but that IS the reality. Even with pitch adjustment, itsuresoundslikepeoplearetalkingveryfast. smile.gif

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post #6 of 37 Old 09-17-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

The stations have a choice, either time compression, or content removal. Which would you prefer? They are not going to show whole thing at the original rate, because they "say" that they "need" the additional commercial time. I guess they feel that using compression, they don't need to cut out any content. I don't like either one, but that IS the reality. Even with pitch adjustment, itsuresoundslikepeoplearetalkingveryfast. smile.gif

So... a broadcast channel that actually paid for the program can run it on free TV with however many commercials they aired, but a cable station that gets subscription money "needs" to run more commercials. Yeah right rolleyes.gif . Now their programming is essentially worthless to me, because I simply won't watch.
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post #7 of 37 Old 09-17-2013, 07:13 PM
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Its not only pay tv channels that do this. OTA non network stations do the same thing.

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post #8 of 37 Old 09-17-2013, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

The stations have a choice, either time compression, or content removal. Which would you prefer? They are not going to show whole thing at the original rate, because they "say" that they "need" the additional commercial time. I guess they feel that using compression, they don't need to cut out any content. I don't like either one, but that IS the reality. Even with pitch adjustment, itsuresoundslikepeoplearetalkingveryfast. smile.gif

So... a broadcast channel that actually paid for the program can run it on free TV with however many commercials they aired, but a cable station that gets subscription money "needs" to run more commercials. Yeah right rolleyes.gif . Now their programming is essentially worthless to me, because I simply won't watch.

Look, a first run of Seinfeld was guaranteed enormous ratings, and the commercial time was worth solid gold. On any station showing syndicated reruns, the revenue for the commercial time is minimal. Even though the cost for the programming is lower, the economics have always been that the stations need to increase commercial time for the slot to be profitable. That's one reason Startrek was cut by almost ten minutes per show, even in the 70s.

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post #9 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 02:43 AM
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The primary driver of the ever rising cost of cable is NOT licensing fees. People the primary driver is GREED. Simply put the vast majority of subscribers are held hostage by a price gouging monopoly protected by layers of government "regulations" who's sole purpose is not to protect the consumer but to protect the monopoly.

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post #10 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Church AV Guy View Post

Look, a first run of Seinfeld was guaranteed enormous ratings, and the commercial time was worth solid gold. On any station showing syndicated reruns, the revenue for the commercial time is minimal. Even though the cost for the programming is lower, the economics have always been that the stations need to increase commercial time for the slot to be profitable. That's one reason Startrek was cut by almost ten minutes per show, even in the 70s.

Star Trek reruns in the 70's were on local OTA stations (I presume). If ad revenue is minimal, why bother trying to squeeze in an extra spot or two? TBS is getting an average of 60 cents per subscriber a month (TNT is double that), with just under 100 million subs. They ain't hurting for cash. Seinfeld has been off the air for 15 years now. How expensive is it to air an episode?
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post #11 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 02:58 PM
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It's cropped slightly at the top, but more than made up for by the extra video on the sides. You don't agree? Would you rather see 4:3 HD?
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post #12 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 03:04 PM
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Incentive for purchase of Seinfeld when it comes out in Blu-ray. Perhaps the Blu-Ray will have an option of either 4:3 or 16:9.

Most syndicated shows cut portions of the episode; e.g., The Dick Van Dyje Show. Apparently Seinfeld does not do this?
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post #13 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 04:26 PM
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Incentive for purchase of Seinfeld when it comes out in Blu-ray. Perhaps the Blu-Ray will have an option of either 4:3 or 16:9.

Most syndicated shows cut portions of the episode; e.g., The Dick Van Dyje Show. Apparently Seinfeld does not do this?

I think its both sped-up and cut.

The TBS airings were edited to reduce running time, cutting certain lines—even rearranging the position of the stand-up scenes—and showing the credits earlier during the last scenes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld

The cropping on the other hand, doesn't look too bad. About as much is gained on the sides as is lost at the top and bottom.
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post #14 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 07:48 PM
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What, a giant conglomerate can't make a buck? Why do you hate America?
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post #15 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 08:15 PM
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What, a giant conglomerate can't make a buck? Why do you hate America?

Are these sentences intended to go together?

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post #16 of 37 Old 09-18-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post

I think its both sped-up and cut.

The TBS airings were edited to reduce running time, cutting certain lines—even rearranging the position of the stand-up scenes—and showing the credits earlier during the last scenes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seinfeld

The cropping on the other hand, doesn't look too bad. About as much is gained on the sides as is lost at the top and bottom.

This has been happening one way or another since the existence of syndication. You are acting shocked. I would be shocked if they DIDN'T do something to increase advertising time. It's a fact of life. If you can't deal with it then buy the DVDs, it's your only other option.

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post #17 of 37 Old 09-19-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi Master View Post

The primary driver of the ever rising cost of cable is NOT licensing fees. People the primary driver is GREED. Simply put the vast majority of subscribers are held hostage by a price gouging monopoly protected by layers of government "regulations" who's sole purpose is not to protect the consumer but to protect the monopoly.

Within the narrow scope of syndicated pprogramming this is neither greed nor a monopoly. It is pretty basic economics.

First, this isn't a monopoly. In fact the competitoin for top shelf syndicated programming is pretty fierce. USA, TNT, TBS, Comedy Central, FX, Nickelodean, TV Land and more compete to grab the best programs. At the same time, network TV is producing fewer and fewer comedies that become widespread hits. This discussion is specifically about "Seinfeld" which has been off the air for 15 years. Not every show that is eligible for syndication becomes a hit in that arena.

So, we have tremendous competition and a limited supply of programs. The demand remains high however, as reflected in the ratings for these shows and number of cable/satellite/fiber subscribers that haven't cut the cord. This drives the cost of obtaining the hit shows higher and higher. As a business, the cable channels have both a right and obligation to pursue a return on this investment. And they generate that revenue through commercial ads and subscriber fees. That's why they have to jam in as many commercials as they can and use graphics that clutter the screen to promote their upcoming shows. This is just business. One person's greed is another's reasonable profit.

Jedi,I know from previous posts you are a big fan of Me TV. I am as well. When I see Emergency! on I will stop watch if just for a few minutes and relive a show I loved as a child. But shows like that do not draw a broad audience and thus are very inexpensive which allows Me TV to show for free over the air. Most people under 35 have never heard of Emergency! or Kojak.
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post #18 of 37 Old 09-19-2013, 01:12 PM
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This has been happening one way or another since the existence of syndication. You are acting shocked. I would be shocked if they DIDN'T do something to increase advertising time. It's a fact of life. If you can't deal with it then buy the DVDs, it's your only other option.

Shocked? No not at all, and reading through my previous posts I'm not sure where you determined that. Fed up and a bit incredulous that anyone watches a program that has been sped up until the actors sound like chipmunks? Yes.
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post #19 of 37 Old 09-19-2013, 09:50 PM
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Within the narrow scope of syndicated pprogramming this is neither greed nor a monopoly. It is pretty basic economics.

First, this isn't a monopoly. In fact the competitoin for top shelf syndicated programming is pretty fierce. USA, TNT, TBS, Comedy Central, FX, Nickelodean, TV Land and more compete to grab the best programs. At the same time, network TV is producing fewer and fewer comedies that become widespread hits. This discussion is specifically about "Seinfeld" which has been off the air for 15 years. Not every show that is eligible for syndication becomes a hit in that arena.

So, we have tremendous competition and a limited supply of programs. The demand remains high however, as reflected in the ratings for these shows and number of cable/satellite/fiber subscribers that haven't cut the cord. This drives the cost of obtaining the hit shows higher and higher. As a business, the cable channels have both a right and obligation to pursue a return on this investment. And they generate that revenue through commercial ads and subscriber fees. That's why they have to jam in as many commercials as they can and use graphics that clutter the screen to promote their upcoming shows. This is just business. One person's greed is another's reasonable profit.

It is a monopoly because the pay TV companies are charging the same high prices for the same bundle of channels. The price of pay TV has more than doubled over the last 10 years. It hasn't been regulated like it needs to be.

There are 60 years of programming to choose from. There are great shows that haven't been on TV in years. Why don't these channels show some of them instead of all the cheap made reality crap they show. The customer is paying a lot more and getting a lot less.

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post #20 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 02:52 AM
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Shocked? No not at all, and reading through my previous posts I'm not sure where you determined that. Fed up and a bit incredulous that anyone watches a program that has been sped up until the actors sound like chipmunks? Yes.

Though the good time compression algorithms make sure the pitch of sped-up audio doesn't change - so whilst the dialogue is faster (which can ruin comic timing) - the voices don't go up in pitch.

In Europe, we have got very used to US movies and scripted drama and comedy series being played 4% faster as 24fps film/film-look video content is replayed at 25fps (to avoid having to do frame interpolation etc.), so for us it is sometimes a bit of a shock to see the US originals at normal speed (common now 24p Blu-rays are available) Most conversions these days don't alter the pitch, just the speed, but that isn't always the case.

ISTR that at least one comedy writer/performer doesn't allow the 24/25 conversion and instead mandates frame-interpolation conversion (which avoids the speed change), because they think that the change in pauses kills the comic timing. Can't remember who it is now...
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post #21 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 04:17 PM
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Adding duplicate frames with telecine is the standard way to adapt disparate framerates, which is how film content is usually shown at 30 fps. The difference between film and PAL's 25 fps is low enough that some companies are too lazy to telecine and just increase the playback speed, but any "proper" conversion will be telecined. The same thing happens to UK content sold in the US market, as increasing 25 fps to 30 fps would result in a significant speed increase.
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post #22 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Adding duplicate frames with telecine is the standard way to adapt disparate framerates, which is how film content is usually shown at 30 fps. The difference between film and PAL's 25 fps is low enough that some companies are too lazy to telecine and just increase the playback speed, but any "proper" conversion will be telecined. The same thing happens to UK content sold in the US market, as increasing 25 fps to 30 fps would result in a significant speed increase.

My understanding is that 24fps content is nearly always sped up to 25p for release on PAL, or more accurately now DVB (50Hz). But thats a 4% speed up. This is 7.5%, and (I'm willing to bet) they are still cutting content out.
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post #23 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 04:49 PM
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Adding duplicate frames with telecine is the standard way to adapt disparate framerates, which is how film content is usually shown at 30 fps.

Yes - though it is actually used more widely to convert 24fps film to 60fps (fields or frames) using 3:2 repetition. In the case of 60i it is duplicate fields not frames.
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The difference between film and PAL's 25 fps is low enough that some companies are too lazy to telecine and just increase the playback speed, but any "proper" conversion will be telecined.
Film content is almost always telecined - but not in the way you think. The standard machine used to transfer film to video in real-time is called a telecine - whether there is frame repetition or not. The repetition of frames is just a function that telecines used in 60Hz markets (North America, Japan, Korea etc.) offer. Telecines used in Europe will usually offer 25fps replay, either for TV film (which is shot at 25fps in Europe) or movies (which are shot 24fps but replayed/transferred at 25fps)

For some reason "telecine" has been assumed to mean "frame repetition" in computer circles - but it IS the name of a standard piece of broadcast kit. I know, I've operated one (occasionally and a long time ago!) Equally, in the broadcast industry, 24fps video converted to 60Hz using 3:2 pull-down isn't usually referred to as having been "telecined" if it wasn't on film (as the telecine process is the film to video transfer).

For 24fps video (really only HD - as 24fps SD was pretty rare - and often required specially modified "SlowPAL" kit), some VTRs will allow you to replay 24fps material at 25fps (and output at 50p or 50i as well) as a standard function. (*)
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The same thing happens to UK content sold in the US market, as increasing 25 fps to 30 fps would result in a significant speed increase.

UK content is treated in one of two ways. Either a 25p master is slowed down to 24p and then 3:2 pulled-down to get to 60i/60p OR the 25p content is mastered at 50i (50p in some territories) and then fed through a standards converter like an Alchemist, in real time, which frame rate interpolates the 50Hz master to 60Hz. The former technique will result in duration changes, the latter doesn't. Lots of BBC series are mastered to 50i and converted to 60i using standards conversion rather than slow down.

(*) Yes there was the Quantel SD Editbox system where 24fps film was telecine transferred as 576/50i (with speed up), de-interlaced to 576/25p within the Editbox, and then edited in the 576/25p domain. When the edit was finished it was scaled from 576/25p to 480p, then slowed down to 480/24p and played out with 3:2 repetition generating 480/60i to produce a US master, and then again played out at 576/50i with 2:2 repetition for the European master. (No conversion required downstream of the edit suite) I think this was used for some of the later X Files?
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post #24 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 05:59 PM
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(*) Yes there was the Quantel SD Editbox system where 24fps film was telecine transferred as 576/50i (with speed up), de-interlaced to 576/25p within the Editbox, and then edited in the 576/25p domain. When the edit was finished it was scaled from 576/25p to 480p, then slowed down to 480/24p and played out with 3:2 repetition generating 480/60i to produce a US master, and then again played out at 576/50i with 2:2 repetition for the European master. (No conversion required downstream of the edit suite) I think this was used for some of the later X Files?
I believe the current Quantel QEP system still has that capability.

You pretty much throw whatever the source is into the timeline, switch your frame rate and video resolution in QEffects, then hit render. While that occurs, go have tea...
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post #25 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a few TBS Seinfeld recordings from the same year as this one (2003) and they did NOT speed it up back then. They did, however, cut some content that they have since put back in. Their airings 10 years ago cut content mostly from the final segment of the show.

I could probably live with a 4% increase in speed, but 7.5% is really pushing it - I don't know how anybody watching could NOT notice it - being a Seinfeld fan and having seen every episode, many several times, I find it absolutely unwatchable sped up this much.

Ans since we are talking about cable here, why is it so important to fit programming into a 30-minute time slot? Why not a 35-minute slot? Bring the speed back to normal and air all the content, even the stuff cut for syndication.
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post #26 of 37 Old 09-20-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

For some reason "telecine" has been assumed to mean "frame repetition" in computer circles - but it IS the name of a standard piece of broadcast kit. I know, I've operated one (occasionally and a long time ago!) Equally, in the broadcast industry, 24fps video converted to 60Hz using 3:2 pull-down isn't usually referred to as having been "telecined" if it wasn't on film (as the telecine process is the film to video transfer).

The nomenclature seems to have developed around the concept of IVTC filters, since the general "best practise" technique in computer circles is to undo any field or frame repetition in order to restore the original progressive frames in any video. As such, any video with an altered framerate is expected to undergo IVTC to restore the progressive frames and decimation to remove duplicate ones, whereas material that is truly interlaced is more difficult to decomb.

Since you seem knowledgeable in this area, one thing I've yet to understand is what happens with US dramas shown at 720p60. Material on stations that broadcast 1080i60 can be restored through IVTC to achieve 1080p24 frames, but if the source is already progressive, I don't know if the frames are simply duplicated (rather than the fields), which would then mean that only decimation would be needed to restore the original framerate, or if there is a separate way to IVTC progressive content to restore its original framerate.
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I could probably live with a 4% increase in speed, but 7.5% is really pushing it - I don't know how anybody watching could NOT notice it - being a Seinfeld fan and having seen every episode, many several times, I find it absolutely unwatchable sped up this much.

I don't understand why anyone who likes a show this old would still be watching reruns at all. Why haven't you bought the DVDs, so you can watch the uncut episodes at their original speed? Even if you record the TBS episodes on a DVR, you still have to go to the trouble of skipping the commercials, and you're limited by how frequently the show airs, too. I would think that the only people who would still be watching reruns of this or any other show would be those who have yet to see the series.
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Originally Posted by brandonsvsu View Post

Ans since we are talking about cable here, why is it so important to fit programming into a 30-minute time slot? Why not a 35-minute slot? Bring the speed back to normal and air all the content, even the stuff cut for syndication.

That would waste network time. Every program that the network chooses to air spends time that the network could use to show something else. If a particular show or movie runs for a long time, the network risks alienating everyone who doesn't like that show or movie. If the program runs quickly, the network can switch to something else that might attract different viewers. It's the same reason radio stations don't like long singles: the longer each song is, the fewer songs they can play each day, which is bad for business.

Furthermore, Americans are used to shows starting and ending at regular times, and having random program durations risks confusing viewers and causing them to miss their shows. If they get frustrated and stop watching, they won't be seeing the advertisements, and the networks won't do anything to encourage that.
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post #27 of 37 Old 09-21-2013, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

The nomenclature seems to have developed around the concept of IVTC filters, since the general "best practise" technique in computer circles is to undo any field or frame repetition in order to restore the original progressive frames in any video.
Yes - I think because 24fps film content that has been telecined to video in the US has 3:2 pull-down that is introduced by the telecine, the addition of 3:2 pulldown (the pulldown refers to the physical act of pulling down the film during blanking on early telecines which didn't employ continuous scanning) has become intertwined with the telecine process. However 3:2 repetition can be added to 24p video, which has never been near a telecine, and in Europe we use 2:2 pull-down, where there are no duplicate fields to detect and remove/cope with.

There's so much misinformation and poor explanation of broadcast video - and in particular interlacing and de-interlacing - it gets a bit annoying. Particularly when a phrase appears that is based on a standard broadcast production process (Telecine-ing is the act of transferring film to video using a telecine machine) is used to mean something else (removing 3:2 pull-down/repetition which may or may not have been caused by a telecine)
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As such, any video with an altered framerate is expected to undergo IVTC to restore the progressive frames and decimation to remove duplicate ones, whereas material that is truly interlaced is more difficult to decomb.
Yes - though in 50i/60i they are both forms of de-interlacing. 24p/25p content with 3:2/2:2 can be restored losslessly with the right de-interlacing algorithm, whereas native interlaced content will always be ambiguous (there is spectrum folding in the vertical spatial and temporal domains that cannot be undone - though some good guesswork can be made) Obviously native interlaced 50i/60i content should be de-interlaced to 50p/60p not 25p/30p if you want to keep the full motion (i.e. temporal resolution) of the original. How you do this depends on the quality you want to achieve (particularly the vertical resolution) and the processing power you have. The best de-interlacers will use stuff like Phase Correlation Motion Compensation to detect which areas are moving, and in what direction, to create the "missing" fields that need to be created to generate a decent 50p or 60p result.

(These processes aren't new, and in fact have been an issue in broadcast production since the 80s. High quality DVEs (Digital Video Effects devices) used in production control rooms, that zoom and shrink, rotate, page peel etc. pictures have used realtime de-interlacing to generate the highest vertical resolution pictures they can when you zoom into a live native interlaced source. If you process fields individually (which lower cost DVEs do) you end up with noticeably poorer quality results (particularly when you enlarge a picture))
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Since you seem knowledgeable in this area, one thing I've yet to understand is what happens with US dramas shown at 720p60. Material on stations that broadcast 1080i60 can be restored through IVTC to achieve 1080p24 frames, but if the source is already progressive, I don't know if the frames are simply duplicated (rather than the fields), which would then mean that only decimation would be needed to restore the original framerate, or if there is a separate way to IVTC progressive content to restore its original framerate.
They're both very similar. In interlaced 3:2 you are looking for the repeated field (which will be alternating between field 1 and field 2) in a pair of source frames which you simply discard to give you 2:2 (which you can de-interlace to 1:1 with a simple field-merge - aka weave). You obviously need to continuously detect the field duplication - as 3:2 content edited in the video domain could break the 3:2 cadence (i.e. you could end up with edits that break the repeated 3:2:3:2:3:2 pattern) by comparing fields and where two are identical you discard one.

The same techniques can be done in the 3:2 60p domain, but in this case you also need to detect the repeated pairs of frames as well as the repeated triple frames as you need to go from 3:2 to 1:1 without any de-interlacing. You are still detecting and discarding repeated images - but you have 3 repeated frames rather than 1 repeated field to detect per pair of source frames. With a 3:2 regular cadence 24p within 60p you detect 2 repeated frames followed by 1 repeated frame.

Some compression systems optionally also allow you to flag 3:2 sources so you don't have to send redundant content (though repeated fields/frames compress quite well) so rather than sending the duplicate fields or frames, you flag them for duplication in the receiver. If you have access to the compressed stream you can detect the flags and thus recreate the 24p source without having to run any content-based repeated field/frame detection.
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post #28 of 37 Old 09-21-2013, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I believe the current Quantel QEP system still has that capability.

You pretty much throw whatever the source is into the timeline, switch your frame rate and video resolution in QEffects, then hit render. While that occurs, go have tea...

It's a slightly different thing - and most NLEs can do something similar now. It can be quite tricky on some NLEs to go 1:1 frame based for frame rate conversion from 24p to 50i using speed-up (I usually end up going via Compressor in FCP where you can do a 1:1 frame rate conversion accepting a duration change - usually for EPKs and B-Roll files we get from US studios promoting movies...)

The original Quantel system, dating back to the era where all editing was effectively in the 50i or 60i domain and interlaced, was clever in that it effectively treated 576/50i frames internally as 576/24p (kind of) delivering an intermediate format that had both the improved resolution of 576i and the ability to cope with 24p content for both 50i and 60i frame rates. No rendering needed to playout in either format.
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post #29 of 37 Old 09-21-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I don't understand why anyone who likes a show this old would still be watching reruns at all.
Why haven't you bought the DVDs, so you can watch the uncut episodes at their original speed?
I would think that the only people who would still be watching reruns of this or any other show would be those who have yet to see the series.

Furthermore, Americans are used to shows starting and ending at regular times, and having random program durations risks confusing viewers and causing them to miss their shows.

- cant buy dvds anymore....cant....waiting for the bluray box set....friends is out already so how far can seinfeld be.
- the dvds are still 4x3 i like the new 16x9 look.

Also the rest of the world has more morons than we do....like Nigel Powers said "Dont even get me started on the Dutch."

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post #30 of 37 Old 09-21-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by sneals2000 View Post

It's a slightly different thing - and most NLEs can do something similar now. It can be quite tricky on some NLEs to go 1:1 frame based for frame rate conversion from 24p to 50i using speed-up (I usually end up going via Compressor in FCP where you can do a 1:1 frame rate conversion accepting a duration change - usually for EPKs and B-Roll files we get from US studios promoting movies...)

The original Quantel system, dating back to the era where all editing was effectively in the 50i or 60i domain and interlaced, was clever in that it effectively treated 576/50i frames internally as 576/24p (kind of) delivering an intermediate format that had both the improved resolution of 576i and the ability to cope with 24p content for both 50i and 60i frame rates. No rendering needed to playout in either format.
My how things change.

It seems like everything is a render in Quantel these days.
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