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post #2161 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 12:40 PM
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The much different driver lineups on the teams and the impressive performances by the young rookies, Magnussen and the Russian Kvyat have been fascinating. Add to that the very different and so far not very well understood 2014 cars and it's clear we are going to see some things that are both new and intriguing this season.
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post #2162 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 02:21 PM
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Agreed, an old acquaintance,was killed along with another rider at a rider school back in October. I've busted myself up there.

That one was in my mind when I wrote that. Sorry to hear that. Even though it was a "school" day, the student was no newbie, and the instructor was a Daytona iron man. Sorry, just tired of that crap happening.
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post #2163 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 03:44 PM
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Add to that the very different and so far not very well understood 2014 cars.
This could be one of the biggest understatements of all time.wink.gif

I don't know if anyone else caught a couple of shows sandwiched around the practices, but they were absolutely terrific...

1) Road to Ferrari -- Will Buxton and his producer visit a number of different factories, coach builders, etc. while driving thru northern Italy on the way to Maranello for a meet & greet with LdM (and others) and a tour of the factory.
As you can imagine, Will finds a way to make it all entertaining and educational.

2) Horse Power -- This is a behind-the-scenes Ferrari/Shell infomercial also worth a look.
Much of the program focused on the team's effort to build this year's car, particularly the "powerunit."
The amount of people, sweat, and $$$ Maranello puts into the Scuderia is awe-inducing.
Watch for Alonso in the simulator and the incredible violence to his body that we usually can't see from the outside during a race.

Trailer:



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post #2164 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 05:41 PM
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Jacques Villeneuve's Crystal Ball:

“Even if they (Red Bull) are making a new car for the European races it won’t change anything — maybe they’ll do 30 laps instead of 15. It’s not the car but the engine.

“I’m joking, but why bother going to Australia? They can’t do half a grand prix and are slower than most.


Hey Jacques, how does that foot taste? rolleyes.gif
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post #2165 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 07:20 PM
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Go Scuderia Ferrari!

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post #2166 of 5095 Old 03-15-2014, 11:01 PM
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2014 is underway!

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post #2167 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 12:48 AM
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Well then, certainly an interesting start. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
This many retirements sounds more like Monaco than Australia, but I suppose the new cars will do that. Just glad everybody's safe.

Cool to see Ricciardo get his first podium on his home soil. And, maybe Magnussen really is the wunderkind he's been made out to be. Someone to watch I guess.

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post #2168 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post

Hey Jacques, how does that foot taste? rolleyes.gif
LOL.

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Originally Posted by TeflonSoul View Post

Well then, certainly an interesting start. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
This many retirements sounds more like Monaco than Australia
I predicted 50%, but will have to be satisfied with 36%

Quote:
Cool to see Ricciardo get his first podium on his home soil. And, maybe Magnussen really is the wunderkind he's been made out to be. Someone to watch I guess.
+1000000000000000


RACE RESULTS:

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2014/914/

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post #2169 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 03:14 AM
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Very good race . I was impressed by Bottas,fantastic drive. And it wad good to see Ricardo on the box.
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post #2170 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 03:19 AM
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Oh no.
Daniel Ricciardo could lose his maiden F1 podium finish after his car appeared to break fuel flow regulations.

On his debut for Red Bull, Ricciardo finished an impressive second in the Australian Grand Prix to take his first ever podium after late pressure from Kevin Magnussen. However, after the race a report from FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer has left the result under threat.

“During the race car number 03 (Ricciardo) has exceeded consistently the maximum allowed fuel flow of 100kg/h,” the document said.

“As this is not in compliance with Article 5.1.4 of the 2014 Formula One Technical Regulations, I am referring this matter to the stewards for their consideration.”

Red Bull representatives have been called to see the stewards in Melbourne. Should Ricciardo be excluded from the race for failing to comply with regulations, Magnussen would be promoted to second and Jenson Button third.
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post #2171 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 04:56 AM
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I will watch the race later today but qualifying was pretty crazy!

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post #2172 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 06:10 AM
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post #2173 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 07:36 AM
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Sorry about their luck. Sounds like the FIA gave them every opportunity to make it right and they refused.

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post #2174 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 07:46 AM
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Absolutely gutted for Ricciardo.

That said, I would like to understand more about the rule. If the teams are already limited in the amout of fuel they can use during a race, why is the rate that it is being used a concern, such that it is a regulated parameter. Use too much, risk running out.

Is this yet another aspect of the Greening of F1? If so, I am not liking it at all.
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post #2175 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 07:50 AM
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Good race. Nothing particularly exciting or memorable. Glad there werent as many reliability issues as expected.
I dont understand why Alonso on Softs was unable to pass Hulkenberg on Mediums for an entire stint but it is what it is. Just glad both Ferraris finished.
If theres any real highlight it would have to be Bottas' drive.

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post #2176 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 07:53 AM
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I do feel bad for Ricciardo though. He seems like a great guy and its not his fault.

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post #2177 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:01 AM
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With an overall limit on the amount of fuel available to each car during the race,does anyone understand why there should be a fuel flow specification as well? Why make things more complex with another regulation that constrains the approaches that each team could take? This is not to excuse a team for failure to comply, but rather to question why F1 put itself in a scenario like this.
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post #2178 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:03 AM
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post #2179 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pienza View Post

With an overall limit on the amount of fuel available to each car during the race,does anyone understand why there should be a fuel flow specification as well? Why make things more complex with another regulation that constrains the approaches that each team could take? This is not to excuse a team for failure to comply, but rather to question why F1 put itself in a scenario like this.

I quite agree. I would think that running out of fuel mid-race would be a sufficient penalty for excessive consumption. I would really like to know more about the purpose of this rule.
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post #2180 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:40 AM
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Dont nearly all professional racing series have fuel flow limits?

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post #2181 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:47 AM
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I would chalk the fuel flow system as a 'acid test' for that race team. Maybe they were concentrating on the engine not exploding from too lean of a AFR (Air/Fuel ratio). Turbos can make a mess if the AFR's are jacked up but with more fuel equals more power. But I do see that if the team runs out of gas before the scheduled fuel stop, that should be enough of a penalty.

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post #2182 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:53 AM
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I would chalk the fuel flow system as a 'acid test' for that race team. Maybe they were concentrating on the engine not exploding from too lean of a AFR (Air/Fuel ratio). Turbos can make a mess if the AFR's are jacked up but with more fuel equals more power. But I do see that if the team runs out of gas before the scheduled fuel stop, that should be enough of a penalty.

After reading this, I understand now about the sensor in question.http://jalopnik.com/why-daniel-ricciardo-was-disqualified-from-the-australi-1544920287?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_facebook&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

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post #2183 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 08:56 AM
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FWIW Keep in mind that running out of fuel will not be an issue at all races. They will have plenty for some of the races.

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post #2184 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 09:13 AM
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Yeah but they can adjust the allowed fuel for each race and use that to force a usage limit. Having to additionally limit flow and take max power out of the driver and team's hands really defies explanation, and I hope RB's appeal at least forces a reconsideration of what looks to be a stupidly redundant rule.

So, the big question for me is - why was Vettel's engine bad from the get-go but his lesser teammate's ran the whole race?? Shouldn't Vettel have gotten the better engine?
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post #2185 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 09:35 AM
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Yeah but they can adjust the allowed fuel for each race and use that to force a usage limit. Having to additionally limit flow and take max power out of the driver and team's hands really defies explanation, and I hope RB's appeal at least forces a reconsideration of what looks to be a stupidly redundant rule.

After reading the Stewards' report explaining why they disqualified Ricciardo and his Red Bull car, it appears to me at least that RB may have got what was coming to them. RB used its own internal flow monitoring rather than the FIA mandated fuel flow monitor. RB claimed that the FIA mandated monitor wasn't accurate. The problem I think is most serious for RB arose when the stewards notified Red Bull during the race that its fuel flow was excessive and should be turned down. RB ignored the warning and the rest is history.
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post #2186 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 09:40 AM
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If the teams are already limited in the amout of fuel they can use during a race, why is the rate that it is being used a concern, such that it is a regulated parameter. Use too much, risk running out.
Agreed.
Since the amount of fuel for a race is finite, the rate at which it is burned should be left to the team (IMO).

Thanx for that.

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After reading the Stewards' report explaining why they disqualified Ricciardo and his Red Bull car, it appears to me at least that RB may have got what was coming to them.
I am forced to agree.

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RB used its own internal flow monitoring rather than the FIA mandated fuel flow monitor. RB claimed that the FIA mandated monitor wasn't accurate. The problem I think is most serious for RB arose when the stewards notified Red Bull during the race that its fuel flow was excessive and should be turned down. RB ignored the warning and the rest is history.
In racing, and all sports, there are rules.
Right or wrong, they have to be followed.
RB deliberately chose NOT to and as you say, "the rest is history."

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post #2187 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 10:03 AM
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RB deliberately chose NOT to and as you say, "the rest is history."

We have seen innumerable examples over the years of the intensely competitive nature of F1. Those guys would steal the pennies from a dead man's eyes if it would improve their position. Looks like this was just the latest example. Like you and slowbiscuit, I can't for the life of me figure out why the fuel flow rule was enacted in the first place.

On to the race. After, the shakiest of shaky starts, Melbourne was a very interesting race although as seems to happen more often than not, the race was won on the first lap. I thought both of the young rookies, Magnussen and Kvyat, were sensational; second (with as asterisk) for Magnussen and a points scoring 9th for the teenager, Kvyat. Looks as if the old order may be giving place to new.

Speaking of shaky starts,Kobayashi's shunt going into the first turn looked like the kind of bad judgment on the start that seems to be an honored F1 institution. When will these guys learn that to win the race you have to first finish the race. Sheesh!
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post #2188 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

We have seen innumerable examples over the years of the intensely competitive nature of F1. Those guys would steal the pennies from a dead man's eyes if it would improve their position. Looks like this was just the latest example. Like you and slowbiscuit, I can't for the life of me figure out why the fuel flow rule was enacted in the first place.
Christian Horner's explanation:

We had an issue with a sensor that changed its reading through Friday practice that sensor was then replaced for another sensor Saturday that then failed during qualifying. We were then asked to put the sensor from Friday back in the car and apply an offset. That offset we didn’t feel was correct, and as we got into the race we could see there was a significant discrepancy between what the sensor was reading and what the fuel flow, which was the actual injection of fuel into the engine, was stated as. That’s where there was a difference of opinion.

“It’s immature technology, and it’s impossible to rely 100 percent on that sensor, which had proved to be problematic in almost every session that we’ve run in.”

Regarding the fact that the team ignored requests from the FIA to make an adjustment during the race, he said: “They informed us and we informed them that we had serious concerns over their sensor. We believed in our reading, otherwise you are in a situation where you are reducing significant amounts of power with the engine, when we believed we fully comply with the regulations. If we end up with that situation, depending on the calibration of your sensor, the plus and minus, it will dictate quite simply who is competitive and who isn’t.”


Quote:
Speaking of shaky starts,Kobayashi's shunt going into the first turn looked like the kind of bad judgment on the start that seems to be an honored F1 institution. When will these guys learn that to win the race you have to first finish the race. Sheesh!
Well, back-in-the-day he was known as "Krash Kobayashi."wink.gif

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post #2189 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 10:15 AM
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LOL, SILVER ARROWS WINS!!!!!!

Not only that, but the top ten was littered with MB powered cars. Makes me proud to be a MB owner. biggrin.gif

As for RB, you guys have covered it. They decided to go with their own system and it bit them in the rear. They have no one to blame but themselves. As for DR, it sux for him, but at least he has an opportunity to be in the front every race. Well if MB lets him.eek.gif

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post #2190 of 5095 Old 03-16-2014, 10:17 AM
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Well, back-in-the-day he was known as "Krash Kobayashi."wink.gif
Looks like he was actually faultless in this incident:

Felipe Massa's calls for Kamui Kobayashi to be hit with a "hard penalty" has fallen on death ears with the Caterham man not receiving any further punishment for causing an accident at the start in Australia.

The Brazilian was left fuming after his first race for Williams finished on the opening when lap when Kobayashi locked up at Turn 1 and then went flying off the track, collecting Massa in the process.

The Williams man believed it was no different to what Lotus' Romain Grosjean did at Spa last year and felt the Japanese driver should be slapped with a similar punishment, which was a one-race ban.

However, Kobayashi revealed after the race that he had no rear brakes due to the failure of the brake energy recovery motor.

After studying the telemetry and footage, the stewards decided not to take action and put it down as "a serious technical failure completely outside the control of the driver".

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