Doctor Who: Season 8 on BBC America - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
Eh? The original was never aimed directly at children. Under RTD the reboot was more of a kid's show than it ever was. Stupid aliens like the adipose and slitheen combined with fart jokes and slapstick gags. That never happened before the reboot. If it was funny in the original it was character-based. RTD "Lucasified" the show.

.

I haven't seen much of the original other than the 1 ep. per Dr. specials BBCA ran last year, and a few Baker ones decades ago on PBS, so I bow to your knowledge. I have read several things by British viewers of the original (including Moffat) who referred to it as a children's show, which was the basis for my comment. So I take it you're more a fan of the original than the reboot? There were several of the Doctors I saw on the BBCA specials I found interesting and mean to look into if I ever get the time. I even liked Davidson, who I take from other long time fans isn't too popular? Anyways I'm humbled by those like you who know the whole series, and try to learn from what you know.

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Old 08-27-2014, 09:23 PM
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I haven't seen much of the original other than the 1 ep. per Dr. specials BBCA ran last year, and a few Baker ones decades ago on PBS, so I bow to your knowledge. I have read several things by British viewers of the original (including Moffat) who referred to it as a children's show, which was the basis for my comment.
Kids definitely watched the original and was famed for sending them scurrying in fear when the monsters appeared. But it was like Star Wars. Produced so everyone could watch and when it was fun it was with jokes and situations that occurred from the characters personalities and not directed at any age group in particular. Adult big kids writing for themselves. Unintentional laughs used to come from the low budget but episodes were far creepier than humorous for the most part.

RTD pulled a Lucas and started writing stuff that he intentionally thought kids would like instead of giving kids credit for being smart enough to laugh at stuff adults thought was funny too. So like Jar Jar and C3PO losing his head in "hilarious" Looney Tunes fashion in the Star Wars prequels, Doctor Who started with a trash can eating someone and belching and booger monsters and cute fat baby monsters.

I loathe all that stuff about the RTD years and avoided much of his tenure. It's telling that the most well regarded have none of that crap. Spooky episodes like "Blink" are far more representative of the early stuff and just like the original kids still dig it.

Edit: Blink was one of the first new episodes that reminded me of being creeped out as a kid watching "Horror of Fang Rock" in which people are slowly killed off in a Lovecraftian lighthouse setting. Probably not that scary now but this overview gives you a good feel for the dark, spooky tones of the early Who. Nothing cartoony about it. Unless it was a K9 episode. He was definitely aimed at selling kids toys, but his dialog is still pretty funny for adults too.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/horror-of-fang-rock-107260



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Old 08-28-2014, 12:55 PM
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The first time I saw a Doctor Who episode was in the late '60s or '70s. Not knowing what a TARDIS was I bailed shortly after they entered that cheesy box that was bigger on the inside. Plus the plumber's helper on the Dialects did not add to kind of authentic science fiction I was expecting.

With the reboot I've enthusiastically watched every episode, including the Torchwood spin-off.
I wonder what the battle-cry of the "Dialects" would be?

Pro-nun-ci-ate!

or

E-nun-ci-ate!


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Old 08-28-2014, 01:43 PM
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The producers last season said flat out to me "we can't do that in a kid's show" when I pitched a few ideas for Nightmare in Silver that were considered to be too graphic/scary for kids. We had several conversations about how US viewers were not on the same page about the target audience. They definitely consider it to be a show for families, and want to appeal to and be appropriate for kids as young as 7 or 8.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post
Eh? The original was never aimed directly at children. Under RTD the reboot was more of a kid's show than it ever was. Stupid aliens like the adipose and slitheen combined with fart jokes and slapstick gags. That never happened before the reboot. If it was funny in the original it was character-based. RTD "Lucasified" the show.

I agree with your comment about Capaldi however. He is definitely a better actor than Matt Smith, but then again he's had decades of experience.
Never? Please see season 24. Or actually don't, its horrendous. I just finished making my way though the original series.
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Old 08-28-2014, 06:26 PM
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Never? Please see season 24. Or actually don't, its horrendous. I just finished making my way though the original series.
I don't consider the problem with that season that it was kiddified, the show was approaching the end of the run and there were multiple atrocious things during the Sylvester McCoy years. The introduction of "cool" Ace was a direct attempt to appeal to teens but she just became one of the worst companions of all time.

I don't think I ever made it to the end of the McCoy run. Not intentionally anyway.


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Old 08-29-2014, 08:20 AM
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I don't consider the problem with that season that it was kiddified, the show was approaching the end of the run and there were multiple atrocious things during the Sylvester McCoy years. The introduction of "cool" Ace was a direct attempt to appeal to teens but she just became one of the worst companions of all time.

I don't think I ever made it to the end of the McCoy run. Not intentionally anyway.
Now in that I disagree. Mel and Adric are tied for worst IMO. Actually, Ace is pretty close to my favorite companion of the classic series. If you haven't, give Remembrance of the Daleks a watch, and then the entire final season (except the silly Battlefield... but the final appearance of the Brig makes it kinda worth watching) is really quite excellent. They changed McCoy's doctor from a silly clown, hamming it up for the camera, to a distinctly darker more conniving character.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:23 PM
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Now in that I disagree. Mel and Adric are tied for worst IMO.
Oh yes, no argument here. They were horrible. Bonnie Langford, who played Mel, was annoying in real life too from what I can remember.


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Old 08-30-2014, 05:30 AM
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Eh? The original was never aimed directly at children. Under RTD the reboot was more of a kid's show than it ever was.
Sorry - that's not the case. The original was scheduled in the Saturday tea-time slot, which was a family-audience slot, and the early historical visit stories were specifically there with a dual dramatic and educational purpose.

To quote from the BBC Written Archive : http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/doctorw...shtml?page=txt

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Handwritten note from Sydney Newman: "I don't like this much - it reads silly and condescending. It doesn't get across the basis of teaching of educational experience - drama based upon and stemming from factual material and scientific phenomena and actual social history of past and future. Dr. Who - not have a philosophical arty-science mind - he'd take science, applied and theoretical, as being as natural as eating."
The original aim of the series was to be both entertaining and educational - and it was widely accepted that the audience would include children. The Doctor Who Annuals and toys kind of confirm the fact that the BBC absolutely aimed it at an audience including children.

It was a family series not a children's series - so not exclusively aimed at kids, but the fact the audience would include kids was always in the production teams' minds.

(Full disclosure - I worked on an episode in 1988)
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Old 08-30-2014, 09:58 AM
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The original aim of the series was to be both entertaining and educational - and it was widely accepted that the audience would include children. The Doctor Who Annuals and toys kind of confirm the fact that the BBC absolutely aimed it at an audience including children.
Agreed ... however, it appears that "mission creep" set in and the "educational" aspect fell by the wayside fairly early in the history of the show.

In the reboot era, we got, "The Sara Jane Chronicles," which was aimed more directly at children.
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:12 AM
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Sorry - that's not the case. The original was scheduled in the Saturday tea-time slot, which was a family-audience slot

...

The original aim of the series was to be both entertaining and educational - and it was widely accepted that the audience would include children.
Which is exactly what I said and which you just agreed with. The original comment was that the original was a "kid's show" and It was never directly a kid's show, it was a show for everyone. The tea-time/early evening slot is a direct indication of that. If it had been a show solely for kids it would have been shown earlier during the week with all the other after-school shows.


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Old 08-30-2014, 11:51 AM
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The Classic Doctor Who episodes are being shown on RTV now, if you have an RTV affiliate in your area. They just started a few weeks ago, so they are still in the Hartnell episodes that are available. Many of the Hartnell and Troughton episodes are lost though, as the BBC began wiping and reusing video tapes in the 70's.
They just recently found a few Trougton episodes in some Nigerian relay station.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:00 PM
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Agreed ... however, it appears that "mission creep" set in and the "educational" aspect fell by the wayside fairly early in the history of the show.

In the reboot era, we got, "The Sara Jane Chronicles," which was aimed more directly at children.
Yeah, what was with that show anyways. A grown woman that hung around with only teenagers. Kinda creepy.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:10 PM
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There was also an even worse K9 spinoff...

I love K9 but...

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Old 08-30-2014, 02:14 PM
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There was also an even worse K9 spinoff...

I love K9 but...

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Old 08-30-2014, 02:18 PM
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Which is exactly what I said and which you just agreed with. The original comment was that the original was a "kid's show" and It was never directly a kid's show, it was a show for everyone. The tea-time/early evening slot is a direct indication of that. If it had been a show solely for kids it would have been shown earlier during the week with all the other after-school shows.
The tea-time/early evening slot was family viewing - which was aimed as much at adults as kids. But the corollary of that is that it was aimed at much at kids as adults. In the post I quoted you said it was never aimed directly at kids. I don't agree. It was aimed at kids, but not exclusively. The BBC used to air shows for kids outside the after-school weekday slots. There was usually a weekend tea-time drama aimed at kids, but not exclusively, so more a family show in that slot. In my childhood they were often C.S.Lewis or E.E.Nesbitt adaptations, or "The Tripods" (another BBC SciFi series)...

Similarly these days you get "Atlantis", "Merlin", "The Musketeers" etc. in the Saturday teatime drama slot.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:05 PM
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Now in that I disagree. Mel and Adric are tied for worst IMO. Actually, Ace is pretty close to my favorite companion of the classic series. If you haven't, give Remembrance of the Daleks a watch, and then the entire final season (except the silly Battlefield... but the final appearance of the Brig makes it kinda worth watching) is really quite excellent. They changed McCoy's doctor from a silly clown, hamming it up for the camera, to a distinctly darker more conniving character.
Interesting that you pointed out this particular episode before tonights - did you do that on purpose? My daughter and I watched 'Remembrance' this afternoon - then enjoyed seeing the school in tonight's new episode - then the family watched S01E01 together to see the school again. Quite fun!

Also - anyone saying Baker introduced the Doctor being 'weird' probably has only seen Pertwee and onwards - he is the only one who was ever 'serious'. Don't get me wrong - Baker did make the show what it is today, but Pertwee was an exception.

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Old 08-31-2014, 07:44 AM
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Moffat needs to give the Daleks a rest for a season or two. Without Davros, they are not very interesting. In the classic series the Daleks didn't show up every season. Last night's story didn't do it for me, Capaldi and Coleman couldn't save it.

I wish they would do a straight historical with no monsters or aliens.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:25 AM
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The tea-time/early evening slot was family viewing - which was aimed as much at adults as kids. But the corollary of that is that it was aimed at much at kids as adults. In the post I quoted you said it was never aimed directly at kids. I don't agree. It was aimed at kids, but not exclusively.
Now you're just arguing semantics. Was the series a kids show? Are you saying the original series was made to only appeal to the audience of Grange Hill, Chocky, Stig of the Dump, Press Gang, et al?

The original comment that started this argument was that the original Doctor Who was a kid's show. Not if certain aspects were kid friendly, but the series as a whole was for kids. Maybe I should have said "exclusively" but it seemed obvious what my intent was.


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Old 08-31-2014, 10:43 AM
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Yeah, what was with that show anyways. A grown woman that hung around with only teenagers. Kinda creepy.
She adopted a genetically engineered son, whose friends discovered she fought off aliens and monsters. Technically, they hung around her, and as they knew her secret, she couldn't exactly shoo them away.

My Sara Jane was not creepy!!

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Old 08-31-2014, 12:38 PM
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Interesting that there is very little discussion here about the current series and I think it is because this series has been awful so far.

In the first episode, the new Doctor had to get re-acclimated, but it seemed like all of the main characters had lost their memories for the first few minutes. Another thing was that the Doctor was very distraught over the fate of the dinosaur, but then in the blink of an eye seemed to be completely over it and never brought it up again. Also, the green screen effects were off-colored, which reminded me of 1970's sci-fi.

In the second episode, they all drop into a vat of gooey human stuff, but then in the next scene they are all as dry as could be. No sign of the goo at all. Also, what was the purpose of the obvious references to "Fantastic Voyage", "Star Wars", and "Star Trek: The Next Generation"? Was it supposed to be an homage to those sci-fi classics or simply lazy writing? And finally, a companion bossing the Doctor around and slapping him? A wimpy Doctor just doesn't work for me.

Neither of the first two episodes have engrossed me the way previous series have. I believe it has nothing to do with Peter Capaldi, but everything to do with bad writing. And it makes me sad because I love Doctor Who.

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Old 08-31-2014, 03:47 PM
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Moffat needs to give the Daleks a rest for a season or two. Without Davros, they are not very interesting. In the classic series the Daleks didn't show up every season. Last night's story didn't do it for me, Capaldi and Coleman couldn't save it.

I wish they would do a straight historical with no monsters or aliens.
The same goes for the Cybermen. For some reason, they seem to think each new incarnation needs to defeat all of the "Classic" villains again. I could adapt the "Dead Parrot" sketch and substitute Daleks and Cybermen for the bird to give you some idea how I feel about revisiting them. Or Kirk and McCoy / Holly and Dave about the idea of "Dead"

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Old 08-31-2014, 06:22 PM
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Neither of the first two episodes have engrossed me the way previous series have. I believe it has nothing to do with Peter Capaldi, but everything to do with bad writing. And it makes me sad because I love Doctor Who.
Me either, they've been rather flat, and I think a big part of it is there's next to zero chemistry between the two leads, and like you I don't think it's the actors themselves, it's the writing. I don't want a Matt Smith "sunny-day" sort of personality, but they need to give Capaldi a bit more cheerfulness, he's too dark and gloomy.

Also agree with other comments in that I'm also really tired of the Daleks and the Cybermen, but especially the Daleks, I'd be happy if we didn't see them again until 8-12 episodes down the road.
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:29 PM
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Yeah, kind of flat and wandering around the inside of a dalek is just as dull as they themselves have become. If the show wants to feature them again it should head back to Skaro or even further back and tell another story about the Kaleds.

I like the dour doctor. It makes a change having a darker and more contemplative iteration (and a bit of a cold hearted dick) than the past few frenetic big kids. He has time to loosen up as his personality comes to terms with who he is and what he has done.


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Old 08-31-2014, 09:31 PM
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Add to the list- wearyness of the patented Farscape 'scream the dialog for entire scenes' modis operandi.

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Old 09-01-2014, 10:47 AM
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Still scratching my head about that "you're in heaven" scene... will they go back to this? was it necessary? or was it to fill up a minute of the episode?

LOL they found the Dalek's bolt hole..

RIP Mom, we always love you 8/18/13
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:01 AM
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Still scratching my head about that "you're in heaven" scene... will they go back to this? was it necessary? or was it to fill up a minute of the episode?
It's yet another mystery arc that they think will be wonderful, that I would prefer not to have to sit thru again. We've been thru this several times already, I don't want another ''Bad Wolf'', crack in the universe, Who's River, what's Clara, breadcrumb droppin, tedious season long mystery again.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:10 AM
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Season story arc

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Originally Posted by DrLar View Post
Still scratching my head about that "you're in heaven" scene... will they go back to this? was it necessary? or was it to fill up a minute of the episode?

LOL they found the Dalek's bolt hole..
They're setting up the story arc for the season. I hope that woman is not the Rani.

Capaldi needs to find a way to distinquish his Doctor from the others. Just being dour and reflective won't be enough, at least not for me.

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Old 09-01-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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It's yet another mystery arc that they think will be wonderful, that I would prefer not to have to sit thru again. We've been thru this several times already, I don't want another ''Bad Wolf'', crack in the universe, Who's River, what's Clara, breadcrumb droppin, tedious season long mystery again.
Most of my previous seasons of watching the rebooted Doctor Who has been "binge watching", and remembering the clues of "Bad Wolf" throughout the season wasn't so bad when I watched the entire season in a period of about two weeks.

The heaven scene seemed out of place to me, too. Should I stop watching the weekly episodes and wait until next summer to watch the whole season? I might have choice words if it's not Q, but Who, who rules in the afterlife.

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Old 09-01-2014, 01:20 PM
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And the crack on the power unit in the Dalek looked exactly like the crack in time we've seen before, it was just vertical this time...

RIP Mom, we always love you 8/18/13
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