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Old 07-20-2015, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Angry Copy Protection Flags:use component cables: report issues here

reports are coming in that since July 9, DirecTV, and soon others like Comcast, are enforcing copy protection on many HD channels: this includes Disney and ESPN, and soon all the premium channels

look here: http://www.dbstalk.com/topic/218549-...ted-on-july-9/

What does this mean? it means it will turn off the HDMI output of your source and force you to use component video cables: a huge step backwards

I have been unable to confirm this, but I have seen so many reports it may be true

12 years or so ago I started a similar thread warning of this: now the day may have come: all thanks to Hollywood's obsession with copy protection

Please post if you have seen this warning or have more info to add: I put it in this Forum as a start: if I am wrong, which I hope is the case, please tell me

Thanks
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:31 AM
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I get around it by turning the HR44 off, then back on again. That has worked so far, not sure about the future.
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I get around it by turning the HR44 off, then back on again. That has worked so far, not sure about the future.
I am afraid these may be warning shots they are sending: remember they hold the encryption keys....

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:53 AM
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Is it the providers or the channels themselves since you mention Hollywood's obsession?
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:53 AM
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We watch a lot of DirecTV, and I haven't seen this at all.

If this were true, you can forget about HDR from sources such as DirecTV since they won't/can't be delivered by component cabling.

Color me a bit skeptical at this point. It would be interesting to see what equipment, channels and TVs that were in use at the time this warning popped up. Perhaps having newer displays is the reason I've never seen it?
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:56 AM
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I have yet to see it on any of my displays either.
Crap, Why did I post that?
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Perhaps I misremembered.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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this happened to me several times: although I have a complex system with a Gefen 8x8 HDMI switcher

bottom line now is my Sharp Elite Pro 70 display HDMI input 1 now brings up the CP warning regularly: switching to input 3 fixes it: but that means input 1 is effectively shut off: I fear this is just the start...

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:02 AM
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Read elsewhere 4k is the reason.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joed32 View Post
Is it the providers or the channels themselves since you mention Hollywood's obsession?
I am told it is Hollywood, and D* and Comcast have no choice in this

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:12 AM
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Those of us who have Bright House and Time Warner have sort of gotten used to this and discovered the work-arounds. Big fear for us HD-PVR 1212 users is that they shut off the analog outputs altogether.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:16 AM
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I just spoke with D*, and they said this is a compliance issue, and the only way to get around it is to change to component cables. I'll continue to do the off/on until it no longer works.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
I am told it is Hollywood, and D* and Comcast have no choice in this
Thanks , that was what I was thinking.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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it makes no sense to me either, but I am ringing alarm bells because it appears this is what is happening

and if you call DirecTV, they will offer you a set of component video cables at no charge

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Last edited by markrubin; 07-20-2015 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:29 AM
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Maybe I'm not understanding this, but HDMI has been the de-facto standard for several years now. Many devices don't even come with component input or output jacks anymore.

It would be chaos, anarchy, dogs & cats living together. I can't see the consumer electronics industry, not to mention rank & file consumers, letting them get away with something like this. Weren't we told that the all-digital path represented by HDMI was designed to prevent theft? That analog component video was phased out because you could not apply copy protection to it? WTF?
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:33 AM
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Is this only if you use an HDMI splitter to multiple tvs?

TV; SAMSUNG 65 HU9000+sek3500(current) SAMSUNG 65 8550 4k (30 days) SONY XBR65X850B 4k(owned for 2 weeks), previous was SAMSUNG 65 7100
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:40 AM
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Wouldn't a newer receiver that meets the standards make this a non issue?
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwhals View Post
Wouldn't a newer receiver that meets the standards make this a non issue?
happens on DirecTV HR44 which is their newest receiver

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
happens on DirecTV HR44 which is their newest receiver

I meant a new AV receiver to use as a pass through.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:09 AM
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Most New displays offer only one component input if you're lucky and up to five HDMI inputs. What kind of sense does this make?
Same with AVRs.
As if there wasn' already enough confusion with 4K/UHD and HDR yada yada yada.

Perhaps I misremembered.

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Old 07-20-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
it makes no sense to me either, but I am ringing alarm bells because it appears this is what is happening

and if you call DirecTV, they will offer you a set of component video cables at no charge
So Mark, the question is why have some of us never gotten this message?

My display is HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. Could that be the reason? Yet it's going through my receiver which although 2.0, it isn't HDCP 2.2.

In your case it could be the Gefen. Back in the 'old days' I had nothing but trouble with a Gefen. I gave up on it.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
reports are coming in that since July 9, DirecTV, and soon others like Comcast, are enforcing copy protection on many HD channels: this includes Disney and ESPN, and soon all the premium channels

What does this mean? it means it will turn off the HDMI output of your source and force you to use component video cables: a huge step backwards
I don't think that is what it means. It would mean you cannot split the HDMI out via passive splitter, and you probably cannot watch recorded content via any device but the one that recorded it. That is, no extenders or streaming.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
happens on DirecTV HR44 which is their newest receiver
It's NOT just on it; I have a client with old (clunky) HR22/23 DVR's, where I was simultaneously using HDMI to the local TV & Component outputs to component dist amps. When they now shut off the local HDMI TV, the HDCP message which previously only came up on premiums, now comes up on EVERY channel, including locals!
I ended up having them to get DTV to upgrade them to a Genie w/some mini's, & resort to a receiver on EACH TV now; really the only cost-effective alternative for their situation...although they we're happy about it.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:26 AM
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I am glad I'm a hoarder, I saved my component cables.
I have a HTPC with WMC, will this affect movies I copy from HBO and stream to my Xbox?
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:26 AM
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This sounds nutso. They'll be flooded with tech support complaints. There must be something else.
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Old 07-20-2015, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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This sounds nutso. They'll be flooded with tech support complaints. There must be something else.
that is what I first thought:

Be assured I did not start this thread without serious concerns this is really happening

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Old 07-20-2015, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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So Mark, the question is why have some of us never gotten this message?

My display is HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. Could that be the reason? Yet it's going through my receiver which although 2.0, it isn't HDCP 2.2.

In your case it could be the Gefen. Back in the 'old days' I had nothing but trouble with a Gefen. I gave up on it.
my Gefen toolbox matrix has worked flawlessly with lots of 1080P stuff up until 9 July: I first thought it was something in my system and spent days troubleshooting it: part of my search revealed I was not the only one facing this issue: hence this thread. I would be happy to learn of a simple fix or solution...

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Old 07-20-2015, 07:55 AM
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This should be a relatively easy 'cause & effect' exercise.

Those reporting problems should identify everything in their video chain. In your case, there's something that the new signal doesn't like about the Gefen. Taking the Gefen out of the chain would show you either it's now the issue (I understand you didn't have issues with the Gefen prior) or it would absolve it of 'guilt'.

Since most everyone has gone to HDMI, I'd think D*'s switchboards would be flooded with calls.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:25 AM
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Beware: Copy Protection Flags are coming big time

What if I have 4k sources, a compliant 4k pass through AV receiver, but a standard HD television (not 4k)? Will I be able to play 4k videos since I would buy them for when I do get a 4k television in the future?
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:33 AM
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We've now experienced this. One was the preview of the Jim Gaffigan Show (not the pilot), a second was some random Italy travel show via one of the Discovery channels, and the third was when wife attempted to put on WGN live.

Reboots have resolved the issue so far. My setup is pretty normal. DirecTV HR-34 via a Denon-789 to a 2012-era 55" Vizio panel.

EDIT: I wonder if the 2009 era Denon doesn't have sufficient HDCP support for the latest protocols. It's been working like a champ to date, so would suck if that's the reason I have to replace it.
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Last edited by rflor; 07-20-2015 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Edit to add additional speculation on if my receiver is to blame.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
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.... Weren't we told that the all-digital path represented by HDMI was designed to prevent theft? That analog component video was phased out because you could not apply copy protection to it? WTF?
Umm.... we were told. I remember it well, and if the AVS search functions worked as well as they did many many years ago the proof would be easy to find, right here on this site. In reality (and maybe this is a long-dead separate discussion) HDMI has never provided visibly superior image quality to component, although Hollywood always tried to convince us that it did. The only real benefit to us as users was in not having to run separate audio cables. Maybe that will now change, as someone pointed out above concerning HDR.
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I believe it's time to Overthrow VerticalScope..
and Bring Back Huddler!

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .

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