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post #1 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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As I sit here watching the FIS World Alpine Championships in St. Anton, Austria, presented in inglorious low definition on NBC, I'm asking myself do we have any hope of influencing NBC to give us at least some HD coverage of the 2002 Winter Olympics held in Salt Lake City, Utah?

What about the Triple Crown, starting with the Kentucky Derby in May? NBC has wrested the Triple Crown from ABC and will have exclusivity through 2005. Imagine what a fantastic demo loop this would make.

Any suggestions on the best way to get NBC's attention or is this a lost cause for the foreseeable future?

Life's a roller coaster. Wear a seatbelt and don't stand up on the hills...
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 01:52 PM
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The Kentucky Derby, or even the entire Triple Crown, would be cool!

Since my only potential local HDTV broadcaster is an NBC affiliate, anything on NBC would be awesome...

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post #3 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 02:10 PM
 
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Linda,

I believe that NBC knows very well how many HDTV sets have been sold and that we want some substantial HD content from NBC. They know we wanted the last Olympics in HD and that we would love to see the 2002 Olympics in HD. But NBC has been, along with Fox, the weakest supporters of HDTV. They simply have no desire to spend any money to support HDTV and I doubt they will until forced to by Congress. With Bush in office and Powell as FCC chairman, I think the chances of seeing significant content from NBC in the near future is extremely small and I don't think any amount of letter writing will change this.

I refuse to watch anything on NBC as my own form of protest against their lack of HD programming (and I don't count Leno as anything significant--and it's on too late for me to see anyway). In the past I watched very little network programming. With CBS's strong support on HDTV, I now watch CBS. If I want to watch the news, I'll chose CBS's news as a thanks to their HD contribution. With the withdrawal of HD MNF by ABC, I essentially watch no ABC programming.
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 03:18 PM
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Let's just assume for the sake of argument that NBC DOES broadcast the next Olympics in HDTV... and the Thursday Night Lineup, and the Nightly News, and NBA basketball, and XFL Football, and golf, and horse racing...

Will you watch any of it, or will you continue your protest because they were late in getting started? If you do protest how long will you hold out?

As ticked as I am with their lack of commitment to HDTV, the moment they start giving us more, I'll watch, and probably will you. And they know that. So they'll just keep holding out for as long as they can.

Sucks, but that's the sad truth.

[This message has been edited by Tom Snyder (edited 02-11-2001).]
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 03:30 PM
 
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Tom,

Of course, I'll watch if NBC shows the Olympics in HD. And I very well know that NBC could care less whether or not I watch their regular programming. I'm one viewer who is absolutely meaningless in their eyes, and NBC is just as meaningless in my eyes. Even if every single HDTV owner refused to watch NBC, it would be drop in the bucket compared to all viewers and NBC wouldn't care. But I certainly feel better not watching NBC.

CBS could have taken the same approach, but they didn't. They elected to be a leader in HDTV. And all things being equal, I'll always chose a CBS program over an NBC, ABC, or Fox program. That will be my continued thanks to CBS for having whatever it is that made them decide to support HDTV. Again, those other networks won't care what I do, but I care and I hope others will feel as I do.

Jerry
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 04:12 PM
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Don't think for nano-second that I'm sticking up for any of these unresponsive (fill in your own expletive).

And the problem is further amplified by the fact you even if you have a pro-active network (CBS), you still also need a pro-active local affiliate. Here in Milwaukee CBS58 is just taking their good-old time allowing us to see all that wonderful content (including this year's Super Bowl). The NBC affiliate beat the FCC deadline date by a year and a half getting on the air, and have their Hi Def signal on almost all the time, but get nothing from their network but Leno. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

I guess the only consolation (just to get back on thread), is that last night's XFL game and today's ALL-star game look better in standard def on Channel 4's digital signal than golf does on WDJT's crappy analog signal. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 04:55 PM
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A full blown HDTV Sports production for a 2 min. horserace, this is a bad joke, right ?

HDTV Sports Priority:

1) Football
2) Golf
3) Basketball
4) Hockey
5) Baseball

PS: I watched the double OT XFL game last night on my DTV channel in SDTV resolution, looked better than the NTSC broadcast.

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post #8 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 05:58 PM
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I disagree. The priority should be:

1) Football
2) Baseball
3) Basketball
4) Hockey
5) Boxing



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post #9 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 06:09 PM
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NBC should have at least one NBA game every Sunday afternoon in HD........

Go Lakers
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 08:57 PM
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It is disgraceful that NBC (the pioneering network for color television) would show the 2000 NBA Allstar Game in HD and not the 2001 Allstar Game.
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-11-2001, 09:11 PM
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Keep in mind that the reason why NBC was the pioneer of color TV was due to the fact that RCA owned NBC in 1953 and RCA wanted to sell Color TV sets to the public. IN 1953 the cost of a color tv was about he same price as a compact car.

NBC has no "payback" to offer HDTV as RCA did many years ago. They just can't figure out a business model that makes financial sense.

CBS on the other hand has said "to hell with the business model, lets get all the new viewers we can because anyone who buys an HDTV set with STB is going to want to see HDTV." I believe their plan is working.

Lee
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-12-2001, 04:11 AM
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You are all way off, The priority should be
1.) Pro Football
2.) College Football
3.) Boxing
4.) All other sports
5.) XFL Football

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-12-2001, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LeeAntin:
CBS on the other hand has said "to hell with the business model, lets get all the new viewers we can because anyone who buys an HDTV set with STB is going to want to see HDTV." I believe their plan is working.
I remember reading here that CBS was turning a profit. I also read here that they were saving lots in their production and on the path to saving more. So much information. What's Who? Where's When?

As to the priorities, you are all clearly wrong http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif Special Events from most any sport are valuable because they have large draws at the gate and in the home. This means higher visibility of the merits of HDTV while transcending the (obviously) divided list of favorites. The Kentucky Derby is an example, but much lower on the pole than playoff and championship games from the major sports. Among this list are:

- NFL playoffs and The Superbowl
- College football bowl games (especially the title games)
- March Madness (especially the Final Four)
- NHL playoffs (especially the Championship Series)
- The Olympics (difficult because of the number of cameras involved)
- NASCAR/F1/CART (especially the premier races like Daytona, Indy 500, etc.)
- MLB playoffs (especially the World Series)
- Major PGA tournaments (anything with Tiger is a draw)
- Soccer (especially The World Cup)
- NBA Championship Series (despite loathing this league, many enjoy it)
- Specialty events (like boxing matches, horse racing, ice skating, wiener dog races, etc.)


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post #14 of 24 Old 02-12-2001, 06:18 AM
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Don't write to NBC....write to the NBA! That's who has the clout in the contract negotiations! They get ANYTHING they want, even HDTV!

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post #15 of 24 Old 02-12-2001, 04:30 PM
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Much as I think sports could really drive HD penetration, I really don't see NBC doing this. The only thing that will "drive" NBC is competition from CBS. Next year we should see 1.2 mill more HD sets sold. Granted that STBs are lagging, but all that means is that when more stations convert to HD, and a "reasonablly priced" stb is available, we will see a landslide of HD "adoption". Due to this, any network that is not "ready" will promptly lose a LOT of viewers to the network that has the best eye-candy. Granted that certain shows we will watch in SD (West Wing fanatics, etc), the fact is that given the normal network sludge, I find myself opting for the best picture, and I don't think that this in unusual. I think that NBC and ABC recognise this, and will gradually be adding HD. Recently there was a thread on HD programing that reported another HD rumor that NBC was going to be producing serveral prime time shows next season in HD. Will it happen? Who knows, but every year that HD sales are TV heavy with few receivers, means that when the switch over starts, it will be MUCH faster than you would expect.

Just my opinion, but I think that 1.2 million next year is very conservative, and that it will be in the 2.0 - 2.5 million range.

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post #16 of 24 Old 02-12-2001, 09:13 PM
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I have been arguing for some time that sports -- NOT movies -- are the "killer app" for HDTV -- the content that will drive the revolution like Lotus 123 drove the PC revolution. There are a number of reasons for this; here are a few:

1. A/V purchases are made overwhelmingly by males. I.e., sports fans.

2. There's no MPAA to worry about. Putting aside ESPN Classic, sports are in the moment. The money is made in the live showing, not in later viewing. Therefore, there's very little concern about pirating.

3. Sports are well lit, and are often (football, baseball, soccer, golf) played on a grand physical scale. Both of these facts are wonderfully suited to HDTV, since the first will showcase the increased resolution and the second takes advantage of the 16:9 format.

4. There is a ready potential channel for people to experience HDTV sports without making the financial investment before they know whether it's sensible -- bars. The common misimpression notwithstanding, as most of us know the cost factor between an HD and an SD large RPTV has shrunk to about 2:1 at worst, and is dropping quickly. This means they are well within range of bar budgets (particularly since these are business expenses). As people see their favorite sports in glorious HD at sports bars, it will be much easier to convince them to buy for their own homes.

5. There are certain events (as Man E noted), that have phenomenal penetration with the public, such as the Super Bowl, March Madness, World Series, etc. This is an awesome showcase.

I have a terrific 88" 16:9 screen FPTV system with great surround sound in a dedicated home theater room. I've got Dish HBO HD, and I enjoy the terribly infrequent good movies presented in HDTV at a time when I can watch them. But with a good DVD transfer (and I'm just talking 525i, not 525p) I can get 80% of the way there in the moviegoing experience. But when I wactch SD sports events on that screen I am constantly annoyed by the lack of detail and color depth. The only HD sports I get are the momentary, glorious snippets on the Dish loop, and seeing them makes watching SD sports just short of painful. If only my local (Milwaukee) CBS affiliate could get its act together and broadcast the CBS Masters and Final Four HD feeds, I could convert a dozen people to HD just like that!

HDTV sports will drive this market!
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-13-2001, 07:48 AM
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HDTV sports programming priorities:
1) World Cup 2002
2) March Madness
3) NFL playoffs, etc
(all of the above attract a far wider audinece than "regular" games,
including a potentially more attractive "demographic profile" for the advertisers)
Sadly I also would strongly suggest HDTV format advertising that is sold seperately from the regular advertising. Isn't the HDTV audience different from the regular audience? Maybe a wealthier better educated bunch is actually a big negative because we are unlikely to respond to ads?
tor
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-13-2001, 02:56 PM
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Soccer ? Nobody watches that boring crap. Give me a break, this is the US of A. Not sissy Europe or Central America. Gooooooooaaaaaaaal my A**

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post #19 of 24 Old 02-13-2001, 03:39 PM
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Yes, soccer is not quite enjoyed by most here in the US. I didn't really enjoy watching it until I started coaching my son's team and realized the incredible level of skill required to play the game well (especially at the pro level). What is terribly ironic is the nose-thumbing provided by Americans toward soccer because it is "boring", and then many of these folks watch 12 guys play golf! There's some action for ya. Up next, Fishin' with Billy Bob!

I actually do watch some of the golf too because I have a tremendous respect for the talent involved. But not like my brother who is an avid golfer. Once soccer is better understood and more people have played from a young age it will become much more popular here in the US. The effects of this can already be seen since many of the teenagers and up have grown up playing, or being exposed to, soccer. They are tomorrow's consumers. Watch for it on a TV near you (maybe even HDTV).


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post #20 of 24 Old 02-13-2001, 06:05 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Man E:
[b]Yes, soccer is not quite enjoyed by most here in the US. I didn't really enjoy watching it until I started coaching my son's team and realized the incredible level of skill required to play the game well (especially at the pro level).

I feel this way about Hockey. Luckily in my area I get to see the NY Rangers in glorious 1080I! What a treat for the eyes that is!

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post #21 of 24 Old 02-13-2001, 08:41 PM
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Washington Post kids section recently shared some poll results: among 8-12 year olds (or something like that) soccer was favorite sport of 67% of kids surveyed. Baseball and Basketball were #2 and #3, trailing well behind.

World Cup is most popular show on planet.

Soccer is one of few sports that US doesn't dominate.

Like it or not, when those pre teens become teens the advertisers will be drooling over them. WHen those teens become post teens, US might become competitive. When those same kids start getting grey hairs and bald spots, world cup may not be so interesting anymore because US wins every time.

Regardless of future US prospects in the game itself, I can't imagine that the venue in 2002 won't become a technology showcase for SONY or Samsung and that feed will be available in HDTV, big question is whether or not a US network will air it.

good luck
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-14-2001, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
It is disgraceful that NBC (the pioneering network for color television) would show the 2000 NBA Allstar Game in HD and not the 2001 Allstar Game.
I agree completely. This clearly demonstrates NBC's lack of commitment to HDTV over the last year. I support CBS whenever I can as well. It makes me happy to see CBS overtaking NBC in the ratings!

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post #23 of 24 Old 02-14-2001, 06:31 AM
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Keep in mind that Television, let alone Color TV and HDTV was brought to the american public by the results of one man...David Sarnoff.

In todays corporate society, one man does not yield that kind of power anymore. The risk Sarnoff took in 1935 was to bet his entire company on one product. A product that many, at the time, thought would fail!

Lee
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-14-2001, 01:23 PM
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Desertfox, the macho USA plays a sport called baseball(ala rounders). You can't appreciate the game until you watch a european match. Try Fox Sports World and give an English Premier league match a try. In fact try and run for 45 minutes straight, sometimes sprinting or trying to steal the ball from someone. I don't see why people call soccer a sissy sport when you have baseball, the all-time most boring and overrated sport around. These are the only guys I know that can smoke and eat in the dugout and gain wait during the game. Like it or not, The World Cup is watched by more people around the WORLD, it is truly a worldwide spectacle!
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