Are they all stupid at KOVR?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 03-08-2001, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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How hard is it to flip the damn switch for CSI?? Wake up you fricking morons!!! Why have a HDTV if the stations around you are manned by idiots!!!!!

Is anybody from KOVR monitoring these forums??? Who's boss do I have to call about this??? Christ!

Chris
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-09-2001, 10:02 AM
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Since this thread covers the topic I wanted to address, I'll post here (so the board doesn't get over cluttered with the same topic), but I don't agree with the name calling.

This was the second week in a row that HDTV "CSI" was late to start. KOVR needs to get an alarm to alert them that its time to flip the switch.

It would be nice if they posted a direct phone # here, so others would be able to call when it looks like they forgot.

Paul
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-09-2001, 05:07 PM
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That would be nice. I thought I saw a number for Bob Olson at KOVR in a thread once but I couldn't search it out. Unfortunately, if this information was made available, they (the stations) would have another customer support line on their hands.

What would be useful is if the NewsRoom of a station would be kind enough to expedite a message to Engineering when the switch hasn't been flipped. They're used to getting phone calls at all hours and it wouldn't be that much of an added workload. Plus, it would at least confirm for them that people ARE viewing their digital stream.
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-09-2001, 09:21 PM
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No kiddin'

I was going to post a very similar topic yesterday at the same time you did but, just before I hit the submit button, POOF! The national HDTV feed kicked in -- just in time for their frickin commercials.

I'm only grateful I had a TiVo capturing KPIX so that I could see the first few minutes of the show which is rather essential in understanding any episode of CSI.

Jeez. You'd think there would be a computer that would be capable of flipping a switch. I guess such high-tech gadgets are only reserved for the space station.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-09-2001, 09:37 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SteveT:
That would be nice. I thought I saw a number for Bob Olson at KOVR in a thread once but I couldn't search it out.... What would be useful is if the NewsRoom of a station would be kind enough to expedite a message to Engineering when the switch hasn't been flipped. They're used to getting phone calls at all hours and it wouldn't be that much of an added workload. Plus, it would at least confirm for them that people ARE viewing their digital stream.</font>
I know I've seen Bob Olson's name somewhere just tonight ... I'll do some searching too.
Mary

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post #6 of 20 Old 03-09-2001, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paul H:
Since this thread covers the topic I wanted to address, I'll post here (so the board doesn't get over cluttered with the same topic), but I don't agree with the name calling.

This was the second week in a row that HDTV "CSI" was late to start. KOVR needs to get an alarm to alert them that its time to flip the switch.

It would be nice if they posted a direct phone # here, so others would be able to call when it looks like they forgot.

Paul
</font>
I wouldn't resort to name calling if this hadn't been the second time this week....after completely blowing off King of Queens on Tuesday! As I've said before...they show someting in HD EVERY FRICKING NIGHT! How hard is it to remember this....I mean after all.....this is WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING!!!

I guarantee if I routinely screwed up at work on a DAILY basis...with the same exact screwup....my boss wouldn't be all kind and softspoken about it!

I mean...honestly...how hard can this be???? I remember to turn my TV on at the right time...why can't they figure it out? We shouldn't need to call TV stations to tell them to do their jobs!

Rant mode off.

Chris

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post #7 of 20 Old 03-10-2001, 10:51 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by R8der:
Rant mode off.</font>
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 05:33 AM
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I agree, after their engineers spending so much effort and resources to setup the system, you would think they can easily hire some school kid to sit next to the switch, with a alarm clock set to various times, and wake him up to pull the switch at right timing? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
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post #9 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 02:06 PM
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Yes, KOVR has been forgeting to flip the switch on occasion, but still I think you guys are biting the hand that feeds you. KOVR is under no requirement to provide any HDTV pass through, but throuh the wisdom of their management, they have decided to give us the HDTV we so covet. I think that the main thing to think about, is that so far, all the live HDTV events so far, have been handled smoothly. The Golf and the Football, have been handled very well as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully, the upcoming Final Four and Masters will also be handled smoothly. If they screw up CSI, or King of Queens every so often, no biggie. As long as they make sure the live events aren't messed up.
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 02:39 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anthony1:
... I think that the main thing to think about, is that so far, all the live HDTV events so far, have been handled smoothly. The Golf and the Football, have been handled very well as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully, the upcoming Final Four and Masters will also be handled smoothly. If they screw up CSI, or King of Queens every so often, no biggie. As long as they make sure the live events aren't messed up.</font>
Well, I hope you realize that not everyone feels the same. There's no way I could possibly care less about the sports events you describe, HDTV or not. I like a good, well crafted drama in HDTV, but I don't assume that everyone feels the same way, and I respect the feelings of the sports lovers out there. But perhaps you should try to understand that not everyone shares your priorities.

Missing the first 10 minutes of an intricate drama like CSI virtually ruins it for those of us who care. In the case of CBS, we can't even switch over to the analog feed, since in Sacramento they ran the same show an hour earlier. How would you feel if the situation were reversed, and you missed the last 10 minutes of an exciting football game, and never found out how it ended? Would you still say "No biggie..." ???

Mary

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post #11 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 09:54 PM
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Mary, I understand your take, but do realize how long it took to get KOVR to have a digital signal period? It was like 2 years of constant battle, just to get them up and running digitally, and then another 3 months before they started passing any HDTV. The point that I'm trying to make is that you can't keep begging somebody for a hamburger, and then once you get your hamburger demand a porterhouse steak. I know, I know, you aren't demanding anything, you just want to be able to see your shows in their entirety. I can understand that, but I'm sure that KOVR is aware of the situation and trying to correct the situation, but they are going to need some time before everything is running the right way. They weren't even passing HDTV till just last December. It it only March. My guess is that by June, there won't be any futher hiccups. Remember that sound problem that KXTV 10 had for the first 4 or 5 months. It took them some time, but then they worked everything out. Basically, go ahead and let KOVR know the situation, but don't starting insulting everybody there. They can easily pull the plug on the HDTV pass through, and then you will really have something to complain about.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 10:20 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Anthony1:
Mary, I understand your take, but do realize how long it took to get KOVR to have a digital signal period? It was like 2 years of constant battle, just to get them up and running digitally, and then another 3 months before they started passing any HDTV. The point that I'm trying to make is that you can't keep begging somebody for a hamburger, and then once you get your hamburger demand a porterhouse steak. I know, I know, you aren't demanding anything, you just want to be able to see your shows in their entirety. I can understand that, but I'm sure that KOVR is aware of the situation and trying to correct the situation, but they are going to need some time before everything is running the right way. They weren't even passing HDTV till just last December. It it only March. My guess is that by June, there won't be any futher hiccups. Remember that sound problem that KXTV 10 had for the first 4 or 5 months. It took them some time, but then they worked everything out. Basically, go ahead and let KOVR know the situation, but don't starting insulting everybody there. They can easily pull the plug on the HDTV pass through, and then you will really have something to complain about.</font>
If you'll look back in this thread, you'll see that I haven't insulted anyone. I didn't watch network programming for years until the advent of CBS' prime time lineup, and I have thanked KOVR in the past for their efforts towards HDTV broadcasting. My only objection was to your assumption that the programming that you enjoy is the only thing that matters.

I stated my feelings about your narrow point of view, and that's all I have to say on this subject. Signing out.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-11-2001, 11:59 PM
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BTW, KOVR cut out Second Honeymoon HD show tonight with a part of it upconverted rather HD tonight. There may be technical reasons to it if so I would understand. But regularly forgetting to flip the switch is unacceptable.

I was a part when we pushed KOVR to move on with HDTV, if they stop passing through HD because some of us are a little "impatient," I don't mind having this all over again, this time around we shall have more people to recruit and a much bigger voice.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-12-2001, 08:31 AM
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One more thing. I say this with my greatest respect for Anthony1 since you were instrumental as well as many others in pressuring KOVR to do HD, I want remind you how impatient you were when we were close to Super Bowl but still without KOVR. Now that you and I can plan next round of HD basketball parties, I understand you don't want to risk losing KOVR at the wrong time. But I for one believe HD is for all people and it is unfair to ask non-sports fans to shut up and put up just to protect our little interest.

From what I can see, KOVR is a community oriented institution and they understand that very well, otherwise they would not have gone to distance to provide us CBS HDs, given what Sinclair stands for. If they retaliate by removing HD all together, it will go against what they stand for, and I don't think the good people at KOVR would do just that. On the other hand, they definitely can use one good person at the switch board.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-12-2001, 12:36 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SteveT:
You'd think there would be a computer that would be capable of flipping a switch. </font>
There is. I don't know the details, but I have swapped e-mails with the Vice President of Engineering at my local CBS affiliate and he told me that their HD switching functions are automated. A real live person is not needed to "flip the switch". In fact, he said they use the HDTV schedule posted on the CBS website to set the switch times.

I doubt you'd have any luck lobbying your local affiliate to install automated switching gear if they are not so inclined, but the equipment does exist.

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post #16 of 20 Old 03-12-2001, 12:55 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jacmyoung:
... I for one believe HD is for all people and it is unfair to ask non-sports fans to shut up and put up just to protect our little interest.
</font>
Thank you, jacmyoung! we were feeling pretty insignificant there for a while! &lt;grin&gt; I did have my football-loving sons over for the playoff games and the Superbowl, so I'm definitely not anti-sports. (One of them is planning his own HD setup now!) I just wouldn't go out of my way to watch them on my own.

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post #17 of 20 Old 03-13-2001, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anybody out there honestly believe KOVR is going to pull HD programming because I called them stupid/idiots/morons??? If so, I have this piece of real estate that stretches from San Francisco to Marin County for sale....fairly cheap. You can have the entire golden structure for the cost of your home theater setup. I will make you an official "deed" that you can mount on your wall. Following the mounting of this "deed" you will be entitled to cross this structure in your vehicle of choice at any time for the low cost of $2....you can even bring your friends along.

Only serious inquries please.
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post #18 of 20 Old 03-13-2001, 07:04 AM
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What "switch" is it, that they are not flipping?

Depending on how they operate, there may be many different functions that have to take place....

Is their HD programming up full-time on that channel/subchannel (even if just upconverted)?
If not, then the encoders have to be reconfigured when changing from SD to HD, and also when switching from sending 3:4 to 16:9.
Bit rates may also need to be changed.

Do they multicast at all?
They might have to go into the encoders and turn off the additional channels, or reallocate bandwidth back to the HD?

Are they running the HD feed "live" (east coast time slot) rather than with the delayed (pacific time) feed?
There may be problems with tape machines, or the dreaded "delayed schedule 'cause the game/press conference/news bulletin ran long".
We sometimes have to join "Leno" in SD until the first commercial, due to having to record and rewind the HD tape feed, since we delay programming for our time zone. Maybe they do that?!

Do they have to get HD from a different satellite than regular programming?
They may not yet have an additional dish for HD. Perhaps they are still taking a news or syndicated program feed at the time the HD program starts, and the dish hasn't finished moving to the satellite where the HD feed is.

Or, maybe, the engineer (IF they even have one on duty) is distracted by some emergency and just can't make it back to "the switch" in time....most stations still consider the analog feed as the PRIORITY, so sometimes "stuff happens".

Many thing can be automated, depending on the specifics of the automation system equipment. Hopefully they are working on it...maybe it's budgeted for in the future?

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post #19 of 20 Old 03-13-2001, 07:31 AM
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Are you sure I can cross your golden structure for only $2? If so I am interested http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

KOVR has a dedicated Dish and equipment for CBS HD feed from NY. From what Bob at CBS one time said on this forum, it was a straight pass through in real time, which is why the HD shows are all one hour delayed since our KOVR regular programming is one hour ahead of other stations. They take pride in their 10 o'clock news, vs others at 11PM, which I have no problem with.

There is no subchannel, only 13-01, simulcasting 13 analog upconverted when HD is not piped through from NY. That is why we believe it is a simple matter of switching, which is evident from their color bars sent from NY showing on my TV right before the HD shows start sometimes. I don't think we have any problem if there is disruption from time to time, but regularly forgetting to switch whole show at a time is what I had problem with.
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post #20 of 20 Old 03-14-2001, 06:47 AM
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If they are running an HD channel full time with upconverted SD from their main feed, it sounds like they only need to put the HD channel on their automation system...should be simple enough (other than getting the money to do it).
We run two digital channels....1080i 16:9 HD and 480i 16:9 SD. By doing it this way, all we have to do is let the automation run it, no futzing around with the encoders, etc.
We keep the bit rate low on SD most of the time, to help out the HD quality...just raise it a bit for alternate programming, such as NASA programming.

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