My new standard for HDTV picture quality is 'The Sopranos' - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 38 Old 03-14-2001, 10:04 PM
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Huskerduck, for the record Crow tastes nothing like chicken... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

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post #32 of 38 Old 03-14-2001, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">while the picture is pretty good ( not even close to best Ive seen) </font>
I'm curious. What's the best you've seen? What kind of equipment are you viewing on?



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Frank...
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Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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post #33 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark (Huskerduck), I notice you are viewing on a Mitsubishi RPTV.
Here is what moderator Rick had to say about the image quality of 'Anna And The King' in this thread:
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I think I have an explanation for the diversity of opinions on the picture quality last night. We started out watching this movie in our family room on the Mits 73905, and I thought WOW, this is so awesome it has to be better on the Electrohome 9500LC/Faroudja 5000 in our theater room. So upstairs rick goes, fires up the system, and low and behold, far worse. Much more digital, and coarser. Folks, we are dealing with system quality here. On the smaller screens the quality of the transfer is not magnified as much. A 9 inch gun throwing that movie onto a 100 inch screen at 1080p is going to reveal all the flaws, and mine did. The smaller 1080i image on the Mits. does not allow for the amount of detail to come thru, and with that the flaws. Try the Discovery loop on 199 compared to the movie, which I did, and light years of difference. Whereas no visiual difference on the Mits. Most of the posts here seem to be confirming this.
-rick</font>
Here is what you had to say about it:
Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I did check out the first 1/2 hour of Anna and the King though and it was spectacular on my HT</font>
Interesting, no?

You referred to a Jackie Chan movie as looking good. I assume you are talking about the overly edge enhanced pan and scan version of 'Who Am I'. 'Entrapment, like most pan and scan transfers suffers from a soft image.
'The Sopranos' looks fantastic even when viewed very close to the screen. Outdoor shots look every bit as good as the 'Eco Challenge' loop from 199 on my screen. In other words; awesome!
I have my own opinion about why video sourced HDTV seems to look better on many systems but that's for another thread.




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Frank...
Turn off the TV and read these books those in power DON'T want you to read...

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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post #34 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 07:48 AM
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Interesting indeed,

But the speculation falls apart in the opposite direction if Ricks observation is
[quote]Folks, we are dealing with system quality here. On the smaller screens the quality of the transfer is not magnified as much. A 9 inch gun throwing that movie onto a 100 inch screen at 1080p is going to reveal all the flaws, and mine did. The smaller 1080i image on the Mits. does not allow for the amount of detail to come thru, and with that the flaws[quote]

Now, in theory my low quality RPTV that makes things like Anna and the King look magically good should in fact make the Sopranos look amazing as well, just like you guys with the high quality FPTVs.

Or does my low quality set mixed with my junk heap DTC-100 take great digital signals and make them mediocre? This must be the case because the Sopranos is far from Eco Discovery and the Bills / Jets demo.

Maybe when they split the HD Forum in half, instead of programing and hardware........It should have been high quality FPTV/HD and RPTV/HD so as not to have mixed opinions of the quality of the picture we are seeing

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post #35 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Now, in theory my low quality RPTV that makes things like Anna and the King look magically good should in fact make the Sopranos look amazing as well, just like you guys with the high quality FPTVs.</font>
Now we are getting to the crux of the matter.
Some transfers, like 'Who Am I' and 'Anna and the King' appear to boost the amplitude of certain video information at the expense of ultimate resolution. This makes them appear sharper on systems with less resolving capability but makes them look bad on systems with high resolving capability. Video based HDTV has a somewhat similiar effect as the amplitude of higher frequency video information doesn't fall off as fast as it does with film. Video based HDTV is probably the ideal as it looks great on all types of display equipment.
I am sure Mitsubishi HDTVs are great but I suspect that they are optimized for DVD playback. I could be wrong about this but I have looked at quite a few of them.
It's great looking HDTV that caused me to rearange the furniture to sit close enough to the image to get that 'theater' feel. This is why I am so disapointed when transfers seem less then stellar. I can make even 'Anna and the King' look great by sitting 3 screen widths away but that's not the point is it?
I find that shows that look as great as 'The Sopranos' are somewhat rare and I really appreciate them.



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Frank...
Turn off the TV and read these books those in power DON'T want you to read...

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #36 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 01:24 PM
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Frank, I have a problem with your argument.

One can argue that a video presentation that contains a large amount
of high frequency spatial information (i.e., an inherently "sharp"
picture) could be adversely affected by being shown on a projector
that cuts off high frequencies as opposed to one that does not. In
other words, a lesser quality projector can hurt a high quality video
source.

You, however, seem to be saying that lesser quality source material
such as, for example, Anna and the King (I don't agree, by the way),
would look worse on a higher-quality projector! If Anna and the King
lacks high frequency detail inherently, then it does not require the
high frequency bandpass of the better quality projector. In other
words, as long as the high frequency content is missing, whether from
the source itself or because of the projector bandpass, the pictures should appear the same.

It may be that those who own lesser quality projectors have never seen
really good high frequency content and so they have lower standards, but
I don't really think that this is the problem.

I suspect that other factors are involved, including, but not limited
to, subjective criteria that are well established whenever issues of
image quality are discussed. I have seen people disagree about image
quality when viewing the same picture at the same time!
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post #37 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 05:37 PM
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well melk Im pretty sure this is exactly what he is saying and I think its confirmable by going and auditioning some High dollar FPTVs which Ive done on several occasions.

One particular setup was a $75,000 setup including a Sony G-90 ( I think ) with a $25 K scaler and the picture I watched for over an hour and a half in DVD as well as H/DTV and I was very un-impressed at it picture quality but then again I think the screen was over 120"s

So I find watching HD on my Junkie Mitsubishi satisfying because its like watching through a window minus the glass......the only differance is my RPTV looks better than real life when it comes to colors and such unless Im watching film like transfers, then its just film like.

Im still slightly confused as to why the Sopranos doesnt " knock my socks off" when other HBO HD programming definately has.



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post #38 of 38 Old 03-15-2001, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">You, however, seem to be saying that lesser quality source material
such as, for example, Anna and the King (I don't agree, by the way),
would look worse on a higher-quality projector! If Anna and the King
lacks high frequency detail inherently, then it does not require the
high frequency bandpass of the better quality projector. In other
words, as long as the high frequency content is missing, whether from
the source itself or because of the projector bandpass, the pictures should appear the same. </font>
Not really. I am not saying that high frequency content is missing, just that it does not accurately represent the source material. With AATK for example, defocusing the projector makes it look better. Increasing the focus does not add real detail but seems to add harshness and noise. With 'high quality' HDTV increasing the focus adds significent detail to the image without adding noise.



------------------
Frank...
Turn off the TV and read these books those in power DON'T want you to read...

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
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