FOX HD - Affiliate List and Upgrade Schedule - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1537 Old 07-02-2004, 03:58 PM
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So, WXIX could be added to the list of broadcasting in 1080i.

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post #362 of 1537 Old 07-02-2004, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, 1080i will not allow pass-through of Fox HD. They'll have to convert to 720p before they can get the splicer installed.
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post #363 of 1537 Old 07-03-2004, 10:52 AM
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Thsi is a email I received a couple of months ago for WZTV. I have replied to the email asking for a update. I will post here as soon as I receive it. Here the original email.

This fall is looking very promising.... Fox will be here some time next
month to install a second network satellite dish. This will enable Fox
to have the required bandwidth to pass HD.
Locally, we have recently received some of the pass through equipment to
enable WZTV to pass the HD signal to the transmitter. I'm guessing we
should have all of this working by the end of August.

So they bought the equipment but I'm still somewhat worried because it's a Sinclair station. Any thoughts or any insider info on WZTV's situation?

Jerry

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post #364 of 1537 Old 07-06-2004, 04:03 AM
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Just a suggestion but why not list the affilliates that are not doing HD ? It would have a lot more impact and particular affilliates that are choosing NOT to coorporate will remain in the limelight until they do.

People watching this list are probably not that interrested in what affilliates in ChickenPic Idaho are doing but if they constantly see their own stations on the "excuse" list, maybe it will kindle some motivation.

This list should also make clear what stations, even if digital, are choosing to remain at low power or multicast or anything else less that true HD to the customer.

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post #365 of 1537 Old 07-06-2004, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by waltinvt
Just a suggestion but why not list the affilliates that are not doing HD ? It would have a lot more impact and particular affilliates that are choosing NOT to coorporate will remain in the limelight until they do.

People watching this list are probably not that interrested in what affilliates in ChickenPic Idaho are doing but if they constantly see their own stations on the "excuse" list, maybe it will kindle some motivation.

This list should also make clear what stations, even if digital, are choosing to remain at low power or multicast or anything else less that true HD to the customer.

WaltinVt
My goal was just for people to be able to see what stage their station was at re: Fox HD. For those that live in a market that isn't listed, they know that their station isn't ready for the Fall. I don't think that a particular station will be motivated by their station being listed in the "limelight". The "motivation" will have to come from viewers in that market pressuring the station/advertisers.

Many of the missing 150 markets also are not getting NBC, CBS, and ABC in HD yet. It's not really realistic to expect many of the smaller markets to be ready for Fox HD at launch when the other 3 major networks in that market haven't upgraded to HD. However, comparing affiliate-to-affiliate within the Fox network is much more of an "apples to apples" comparison. The Top 10 lists in the first post show those affiliates who are "behind the curve" in relation to the other Fox affiliates.
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post #366 of 1537 Old 07-06-2004, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by waltinvt
Just a suggestion but why not list the affilliates that are not doing HD ? It would have a lot more impact and particular affilliates that are choosing NOT to coorporate will remain in the limelight until they do.

WaltinVt
because he'd get 84,000 questions of "what about WFOX69 and WKHH99 "

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post #367 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bdfox18doe
because he'd get 84,000 questions of "what about WFOX69 and WKHH99 "
Maybe it's six of one - half dozen of the other but I don't think so. If you think about it, by listing the stations that are NOT broadcasting HD, the reader isn't as likely to ask that question as he would if the list is reversed.

There's more ambiguity by listing stations that are doing HD because then the reader thinks and asks just what you stated: "what about my Fox Wxxx", "did they get missed on the list", "how close are they to...", etc.; whereas if they look at the list and see their station, it's clear and they can then take it up directly with the station. Besides, I think it provides a certain amount of incentive for a particular station to not want to be on a negative list week in and week out. Just my opinion.

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post #368 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 05:11 AM
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To me it seems simplest and best to just list all of them.

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post #369 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess it's the Glass half-full / half-empty scenario. If this list actually had the power to "punish" those not upgrading, I'd just as soon use it to "reward" those that have.

If any affiliates belong in a "negative limelight", it's only those that are dragging their feet in doing their part. The top two examples of this (at this point) are Baltimore and Portland. There are 48 affiliates who have done their part by upgrading to 720p, yet the #23 and #24 DMA's have not upgraded yet. It's not surprising that the #89 DMA (Burlington, VT) hasn't upgraded yet.
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post #370 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 03:38 PM
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Here is a update on FOX Nashville.


We're currently waiting on equipment from FOX network. FOX has designed a station level solution for all of their affiliates. FOX really has not published a time table listing dates and market roll-outs. Sorry for no information, hopefully I will hear something soon. Thanks.



Is this a good thing or is it just more stalling by a Sinclair station? I ask because I'm honestly not sure.

Jerry

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post #371 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Fox doesn't have a lot to do with the station upgrading to 720p - if they aren't doing that, the "station level solution" will not do much good. The time table is more up to the station than it is Fox.
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post #372 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 04:09 PM
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I wouldn't put a lot of faith in anything Sinclair Nashville has to say.
I thought they had received and pointed some new dish they needed but could be more bs from them.
In my very humble opinion,SBG is the worst-they'll fight this upgrade till the bitter end.
Don't count on any HD from Sinclair here-just my opinion and I hope I get surprised.
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post #373 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 04:45 PM
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You show KTTV in red yet I was watching last weekend's NASCAR race in HD.
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post #374 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 04:56 PM
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Kracko..

The race was distributed in 480p. KTTV upconverted that to 720p. It wasn't in HD. But upconverted stuff can look pretty good. Our affiliate upconverts Fox's 480p feed to 1080i and the filmed stuff looks better than a DVD.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #375 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrDon
Kracko..

The race was distributed in 480p. KTTV upconverted that to 720p. It wasn't in HD. But upconverted stuff can look pretty good. Our affiliate upconverts Fox's 480p feed to 1080i and the filmed stuff looks better than a DVD.
You mean it's only going to get better? I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Wow am I excited now.
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post #376 of 1537 Old 07-07-2004, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kracko
You mean it's only going to get better?
Only a lot.

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post #377 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 11:50 AM
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KTVU (San Francisco Bay Area) apparently had the splicer installed a couple of weeks ago.
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post #378 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated.
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post #379 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 06:33 PM
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In view of the discussion about slacker FOX stations, I find it amazing that in a market like Louisville, KY WDRB is not listed. Louisville has ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS all in HD and all on Insight cable. This is a #50 DMA. Not sure what the holdup is.

I spoke to the General Mgr over a year ago and he assured me WDRB would be ready as soon as FOX was ready to go HD. They had opted not to do 480p thinking it would not last. Is this corporate punishment for not towing the company line? This station is very successful in our market so I don't think $$$ is the main issue. I have not taken the time to contact them again to find out. I sort of expected to find WDRB on the list in this thread.

I'm stating this to say all the non-HD FOX channels are not in small markets without other HD stations.

CPanther95 I do see your point about being positive but I am actually pissed off about WDRB slacking or FOX corporate leaving them behind so I'd like a nice blistering list of rejects!

Amazing what a little scream therapy can do for HD madness.
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post #380 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PCS
In view of the discussion about slacker FOX stations, I find it amazing that in a market like Louisville, KY WDRB is not listed. Louisville has ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS all in HD and all on Insight cable. This is a #50 DMA. Not sure what the holdup is.
Probably because Louisville isn't in the gotta have it column yet. There is a DEFINITE peaking order here.

The stations in NFL NFC markets and FOX owned and operated stations were first on the list. Best I can see, WDRB doesn't fit in either one of those categories for starters. Secondly, there are 194 affiliates. There are 5 teams of installers installing the equipment. It takes 2 full days to install the gear and get it checked out and check off. Each team is doing 2 stations a week. That is 10 stations a week get done. If the installers can make 10 stations a week, (and that doesn't allows happen if there is a problem getting things going, that number slips and I know of a station that it took 4 days to get it installed and checked off) that is 20 weeks total and it will take longer than 20 weeks to hit all 194 affiliates. FOX has said they are shooting to have all the stations completed by October or November with the 480p Widescreen feed being completely decommissioned by the end of December.

So, yes, there is a chance, WDRB WILL NOT MAKE September 12th, but should be on line shortly thereafter if they do truly intended to pass the network 720p. But then if FOX gets the gear installed in time, they should make it. There is 60 days to go before then. The best advise I can give is grab a cold one out of the frig and kick back and soak up the rays of the sun until Sept 12th.

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post #381 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 07:38 PM
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How is it that fox new york doesnt have the splicer installed yet?? They are the #1 dma. If fox decides to do the all star game in hd and fox new york isnt ready yet it will be a huge letdown to me and other fox new york viewers.

Mike
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post #382 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
…there are 194 affiliates. There are 5 teams of installers installing the equipment. It takes 2 full days to install the gear and get it checked out and check off. Each team is doing 2 stations a week. That is 10 stations a week get done. If the installers can make 10 stations a week, (and that doesn't allows happen if there is a problem getting things going, that number slips and I know of a station that it took 4 days to get it installed and checked off) that is 20 weeks total and it will take longer than 20 weeks to hit all 194 affiliates. FOX has said they are shooting to have all the stations completed by October or November with the 480p Widescreen feed being completely decommissioned by the end of December.
That's also assuming that there are 10 affiliates per week who have already installed their own 720p encoders. Based upon the list compiled thus far, we're not even close to that number, even assuming a certain number have not yet been reported here. Even IF every affiliate intends to be online by the deadline (which I highly doubt), a certain majority clearly intend to wait until the 11th hour to prepare, then when they are ready, they'll be on the tail end of a long list of similar procrastinators, with only 10 installations per week…

Take KPDX Fox 12, Portland, OR for example… second only to Baltimore on the list of DMA's not even 720p-capable. The only word we've heard from them is "Ready by the fall." Meanwhile, they still haven't fixed the chroma-lag on their sub-channel… after 2 years! Of course, it matters little now that they've moved the 16:9 feed to the main channel, but that only happened 4 months ago… from the stories their lead engineer used to post here (before their owner bought out KPTV and merged/swapped the two networks) about severe budget limitations and deliberate avoidance, I have little faith in this Meredith-owned station or their intentions.

EDIT: Bah-hahaha! I meant KPTV Fox 12 Oregon, KPDX is now UPN 49. KPDX used to be Fox, KPTV used to be UPN/Independant (and was Fox-owned-and-operated… try to make sense of that one…), but had a bigger market presence, so when Meredith bought out KPTV in 2002, they moved both studios into a new, single location and swapped the networks. Sorry for the confusion.
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post #383 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by PCS
CPanther95 I do see your point about being positive but I am actually pissed off about WDRB slacking or FOX corporate leaving them behind so I'd like a nice blistering list of rejects!
I certainly don't want to deny people the right to gripe. I'd be pissed if Charlotte didn't get up and running in time. From a national perspective though, the fact that the #50 DMA is not ready yet when only 35 are complete - isn't surprising.
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post #384 of 1537 Old 07-08-2004, 10:39 PM
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Hey folks, let's remember that this is not an official tally, and stations are not obligated to report their status to this list. If a station is listed here as ready, that means something. If it is not, it doesn't mean anything at all. The only people that should be concerned are those in markets where the stations have stated an intention to not do HD.
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post #385 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moorebid
Take KPDX Fox 12, Portland, OR for example� second only to Baltimore on the list of DMA's not even 720p-capable. The only word we've heard from them is "Ready by the fall."
I guess my first question would be, "How do YOU know they are NOT ready?" No station is obligated to inform anyone, other than FOX, their status. This list holds no special power, sorry.

Just because a station isn't transmitting 720p doesn't mean they are not ready to do it or have no intention to do it. Like I said in an early post, there is a definite pecking order here and since Portland isn't a NFL NFC Market (meaning the Portland market doesn't have an NFL team based in Portland) and the FOX station isn't owned by FOX, those two points right there make them farther down the line than other stations. It isn't up to the station when the splicer arrives. It is up to Thomson/Grass Valley, the installing subcontractor. There seemed to be a distinct geographic fanning out to the installs. I haven't heard of ANY northeastern stations (like WNYW) installed yet (maybe Boston) but they are moving in that direction. And WNYW will make the Sept 12th dead line since it is the D* eastern feed station.

I am serious when I say everyone needs to chill out. There is a plan here and it is being worked as quickly as it can. FOX has admitted that some stations will not make it by Sept12th, but they expert all stations who are going to pass the network 720p to be on line by the end of the year.

If a station says they are planning on being ready when FOX delivers, then give them the chance to get the gear delivered and installed. There is a horrible misnomer here that all the stations have the splicer gear lying around and not doing anything with it. That is the FURTHEREST from the truth. The Splicer equipment shows up when the installer shows up and not before. Until it does, there is no real point in a station doing 720p unless they want to. Now, you can get p*ssed off all you want about that, but that is the reality of the situation and p*ssing and moaning and threatening on AVSForum isn't going to change that. Sorry. Like I said, there is a plan and it is being worked. Everyone needs to chill until the plan is worked.

And you guys wonder why stations are so reluctant to give out info. This is the one of the main reasons why they don't. People get cranked up and they go crazy when they perceive things are not as they think it should be when things maybe completely normal.

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post #386 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Well we know they aren't upgrading to 720p just for fun. I wouldn't sweat anything if they're sending a 720p signal. The list of Top 10 without splicer installed could be looked at as the stations most likely to have the splicer installed that we don't have confirmation from yet.

The other thing that was mentioned previously is that a station can fill out the survey with the date they intend to upgrade to 720p and they can get on the splicer schedule sometime after that date. So there may be quite a few stations that by the time it is noticed by somebody on this forum that they are sending 720p - they already have the splicer installed.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that in just over a month that we've been monitoring FOX's progress, they have fully upgraded 18% of their affiliates to both HD and DD 5.1. 10 more affiliates, and they will have a higher percentage of affiliates in HD/DD5.1 than any of the other Big 4 networks.

Plus if they come anywhere close to their estimate of 150 affiliates upgraded by the end of the year - even if only 50-70 affiliates make the Sept. 12th deadline - it will be a remarkable accomplishment.
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post #387 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 01:07 PM
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Here is the updated info I got from the Engineer at WMSN Fox47 in Madison, WI:

"Hi Joe,

Our corporate ownership just ordered the pass-thru equipment. I hope to have it installed by the start of the NFL season. However, Fox must come in and install equipment to allow pass-thru of the network 720p signal. They are going by market size, NY number 1, Madison is 84. So, by fall we should be able to transmit our local upconverted 720p programming, but Fox may not have their gear installed. They plan to have all affiliate gear installed by the end of the year. (DECEMBER) Our corporate ownership is hagging with Charter over an agreement to carry our station on the digital HD tier. Lord only knows how long that will go on!

Sincerely,

Kerry Maki
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WMSN-TV/DT Fox 47
Madison, WI 53719"

Not looking too good for us Packer fans, especially us Charter-subscribing Packer fans :(

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post #388 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Should Madison be added to the 720p list?
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post #389 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 02:37 PM
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Makers & a branch:
A bit of Makers Mark Bourbon a splash of water and some ice.
Just what the Dr. ordered for HD madness.

Thanks Foxeng for the explanation of the FOX process.

Let's see 5 teams of installers 2 installs per week maybe the equipment will be in some time before December. Then the cable negotiation begins 3-6 mos of haggling that means maybe by this time next year WDRB on cable. . .

I need to stop here and get another Makers.;)
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post #390 of 1537 Old 07-09-2004, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CPanther95
Should Madison be added to the 720p list?
Since the engineer said, "So, by fall we should be able to transmit our local upconverted 720p programming," I don't think they are 720p yet. So they shouldn't be added to the list. Unfortunately, I sold my OTA decoder a while ago, and so I have to e-mail them in order to find out if they're 720p rather than just checking their signal.
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