FOX HD - Affiliate List and Upgrade Schedule - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 10:50 AM
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foxeng,

I am very confused about this whole situation in KC. I read earlier that you said all O & O are going HD Sept. 12th. However, WDAF is telling everyone that they are NOT going HD anytime soon, and that they will post on their website when/if they ever do decide to. I have also read several articles stating that FOX signed a deal to have the splicer installed at ALL 194 affiliates by Thomson. WDAF is also saying it is FOX corporate's decision to not go HD here in KC. None of this makes sense to me. Everyone is saying that if the station says they want to go 720p FOX gets them the splicer, but WDAF says it's not up to them?

What am I missing (other than FOX HD on Sept. 12th)? This is getting very frustrating. I am going to check for the bug tonight, but I don't expect anything. Is there some part of the HD transmission picture I don't see? WDAF already does 480p 16:9.
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post #722 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 10:54 AM
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WDAF is lying to you. The splicer is being offered, for free, to all Fox affiliates. All the affiliate has to provide, by law anyway, is a digital transmitter. Fox is taking care of the rest. If WDAF is doing widescreen then there's no reason they won't be doing HD, in fact they'll have to because the 480p feed will be going away when all the stations have their splicers installed.

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post #723 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 11:05 AM
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Any moderators/special members feel free to chime in on my post as well.
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post #724 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 11:12 AM
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foxeng

what is up with fox boston?
still on low power, when the big switch?
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post #725 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by radco
foxeng

what is up with fox boston?
still on low power, when the big switch?
Check out the Boston thread in the local section and it will explain what is going on as the guy from Fox posted this AM.
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post #726 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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The local affiliate needs to provide more than just a digital transmission. They must be fully able to pass through a 720p signal (including a 720p upconverter and an HD capable encoder). So it takes some cost and effort on the part of the affiliate, but FOX is certainly making it as easy as practical.

re: KC - it sounds like the response of an engineering department tired of fielding the same question over and over again. :) Word is all O&O's will be ready, but there's always the caveat that an issue that comes up locally could cause a problem. Generally speaking, FOX didn't make this financial commitment to all it's affiliates just to turn around and slight one of it's own fully owned stations, so if there's a local issue in KC, it is likely being addressed as quickly as possible.

I would ask the same question on 9/13 if it is still an issue.
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post #727 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
FOX has committed to have all digital network affiliates HD capable by this fall, in time for the NFL season to start. Of course there will probably be a few scattered exceptions.
Hi Ken:

Do you have any "official" Fox source for this? Can you point me to a press release or something that I can send to my local affiliate? KQDS-21 in Duluth, MN has been broadcasting digitally for almost a year now, but sasy they have no plans for HD capability and no idea if and when that will happen.

Thanks.

Rajiv
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post #728 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:09 PM
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Rajiv,

Call them and ask them if they're going to take the splicer hardware and ask them how they intend to continue broadcasting Fox Widescreen when Fox pulls the plug on that feed.

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post #729 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:20 PM
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That's an interesting point, Mitch. How are the unlucky souls, such as those in KC, going to see FOX programming now? Would they seriously spend money on equipment to downconvert 720p to 480p instead of just buying 720p?
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post #730 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mitchrc
ask them how they intend to continue broadcasting Fox Widescreen when Fox pulls the plug on that feed.
The problem is that they have never broadcasted Fox Widescreen. We have only been treated to a poor-quality, fuzzy (lousier than Cable) feed of their regular 4:3 programming on their digital channel.

In fact, the station engineer had no idea if and when they would get the Enhanced Widescreen broadcast going.

Rajiv
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post #731 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:28 PM
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So, let me get this straight. The "bug" everybody is referring to is the FOX logo (tailored for your local channel) in the lower right of the screen?

Last night, on my local FOX (WTTG-DT in Washington, DC) I noticed the FOX logo with a "5" below it (part of the logo). Does this mean my local has the "splicer" installed?

BTW, the local FOX affiliate is called "FOX 5".
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post #732 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:31 PM
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I spoke with Mark in engineering at Channel 45-WBFF in Baltimore. The splicer has been installed, but they are doing some additional wiring and hope to use the splicer beginning next Tuesday.

CPanther please indicate that Baltimore has its splicer installed although of course it is not online yet.

Scott
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post #733 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:32 PM
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Ricky, From what I understand, it is the local affiliates logo and it should be in the bottom right corner of the 4:3 area, but will definately overlap into the 16:9 area.(the area where your black/grey sidebars are when watching full screen presentations without stretching.)
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post #734 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 01:42 PM
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Cpanther,

From the explanations I've seen, they shouldn't need an HD encoder. FOX is going to send a signal to the splicer that is 19.2 Mbps, rather than the normal 45 Mbps that other networks are using. That way, the local affiliate doesn't have to have an encoder, since digital channels are broadcast at 19.3 Mbps over the air. Is that not correct? So what do they really need? If it is an upconverter for retransmitting their local programming at 720p instead of 480i, wouldn't that make more since than a downcoverter for taking FOX 720p and retransmitting at 480p? Because now they will have to upconvert local programming to 480p AND downconvert FOX? why not just upconvert and then send FOX straight through?

I don't mean to oversimplify things. Maybe I just don't know enough to understand the process?
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post #735 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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If they can't broadcast 720p, they can't send the FOX signal in HD.
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post #736 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by rickypicky
So, let me get this straight. The "bug" everybody is referring to is the FOX logo (tailored for your local channel) in the lower right of the screen?

Last night, on my local FOX (WTTG-DT in Washington, DC) I noticed the FOX logo with a "5" below it (part of the logo). Does this mean my local has the "splicer" installed?

BTW, the local FOX affiliate is called "FOX 5".
WTTG is one of the stations that has had the equipment to insert their local bug for awhile now. The WTTG logo has been inserted in the pillar box on the right in addition to the network bug within the 4:3 programming.

If the bug you saw overlapped the 4:3 safe area and the pillar box on the right - and there was no additional network bug, than it is a safe bet that their splicer is now online.
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post #737 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 02:18 PM
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kcjefff...you're right, it wouldn't be practical to continue broadcasting in 480p after Fox goes HD. Unfortunately, the cheapest way to remain on the air with a digital signal is to send out a 480i simulcast of the analog channel, without passing any HD or ED material.
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post #738 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 02:40 PM
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With the free splicer though a station is basically given every piece of hardware it needs to pass Fox HD, with the exception of a digital transmitter. The only other missing link for some stations would be the microwave link from their studio to the transmitter. Fortunately, in general the smaller or cheaper a station is the more likely their tower and studios are co-located.

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post #739 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 02:55 PM
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First off, I can't and won't speak for WDAF.

Second, they run the same equipment I do so I am familiar, in general terms, what they are doing, based on what I do but no one has conferred with me on exactly what they are doing.

Third, it was my understanding that WDAF DID (maybe they don't now?)pass widescreen.

Fourth, there is no downconverting of the HD signal with the splicer. It just passes it along with no decoding out to anything else other than the transmitter. From what I have been told, if a station ops to not do HD, then when the widescreen stops, they will only have the 4:3 feed available.

Fifth, when network is on line and the splicer is on line, you will NOT see a FOX bug, but you will see the bug of the local station in the lower right corner straddling the 4:3 into 16:9 area as CP95 has in his screen cap of WCCB-DT.

Sixth, FOX purchased enough splicers for all the affiliates and O & O's. Now I have no information why WDAF would not be installing the splicer. From what I have been told and from what I have seen in the trade rags, all the O & O's would have them installed. I honestly just do not have any information to even hazard a guess of what is going on there. That is just not in my pay grade. I really don't know what to tell you.

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post #740 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 03:08 PM
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Thanks for the info foxeng. I guess I will just have to wait and see. From the sounds of things, they didn't need to buy ANYTHING to go 720p because they were already doing enhanced widescreen, so they have the digital transmitter, and FOX is providing the splicer. They must be blowing a load of smoke up my tailpipe about it being a FOX decision.

If they don't go HD, they are definately going to hear from me.
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post #741 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 04:15 PM
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Fox 8 in Cleveland has no logo bug on the digital station, but the SD channel now has a FOX8 logo vs. a FOX logo. Does this mean the splicer is online tonight?

edit: when they came back from commercial I did see a new bug for a few seconds. Then it went back off.

Thanks,

JP
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post #742 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 04:38 PM
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You are not going to know for sure until network programming starts. If all you see is a FOX8 bug on the digital when the network programming starts, then the splicer is on line. If you see a FOX bug, it isn't on line yet. The analog channel will not be effected. It will still have the FOX bug.

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post #743 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 04:59 PM
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sad to say, but i think this is the only time im actualy gald to see a bug!
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post #744 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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We can all fight to get them up there, then we can start the fight to have them removed - never a shortage of something to b*tch about. :)
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post #745 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:06 PM
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OK, so right now, I am seeing a blue transparent FOX bug that overlaps the white 4:3 bug, but nothing that indicates it is a local one. Does that mean no splicer?
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post #746 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:08 PM
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Cleveland Fox 8 has a new bug! Splicer is online and ready to go.

I hope they move that sucker though....it's up to high from the bottom of the screen.

Edit: We have 5.1 sound too.
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post #747 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kcjefff
OK, so right now, I am seeing a blue transparent FOX bug that overlaps the white 4:3 bug, but nothing that indicates it is a local one. Does that mean no splicer?
HHHMM. The blue FOX bug was the test bug in the splicer and if I remember correctly it was in the 4:3 safe title area like the white FOX bug.

The fact that you are seeing both the blue and the white FOX bugs makes me think that the splicer is on line, but it hasn't been interfaced and is passing the analog 4:3 and when network commanded the bugs on, the generic blue bug came up since it is what is in the splicer. Can you confirm that your are receiving a 720p signal or still a 480p signal? If it is 720p, then the splicer would be installed. If it is still 480, then the splicer CAN'T be on line since it will not work with 480.

Also check and see if you have true 5.1 meaning voices coming from the center speaker and music on the left and right during network programming, not local.

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post #748 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shark73
Cleveland Fox 8 has a new bug! Splicer is online and ready to go.

I hope they move that sucker though....it's up to high from the bottom of the screen.

Edit: We have 5.1 sound too.
Network controls the location, brightness and size of the bug. The stations have no control over that.

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post #749 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:49 PM
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Good news at last!

I just wrote to WDRB in Louisville. They said "We are still 'shooting' for Sept. 12th" to launch HD! I assume that means they have the splicer installed or plan to have it done very soon.
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post #750 of 1537 Old 09-01-2004, 05:59 PM
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Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing whether or not it is 720p. My TV downconverts 720p to 480p and I have a cable box, not a STB.(If I did have a STB, I wouldn't be able to get WDAF's 1.1kw signal from their antenna 200 ft off the ground.)

The bug disappeared, so I don't know if they are still using the splicer if it was ever being used, but i am getting DD 2.0, not 5.1.
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