FOX HD - Affiliate List and Upgrade Schedule - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
I guess I'm confused. I thought Fox in N.Y. was the HD feed for the other Fox affiliates downstream. Wouldn't they have to have their center all geared up for HD prior to anyone else passing the HD feed?
The Fox Network Center is in LA, everything goes through there.
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post #62 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 02:31 PM
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Ah, thanks Spwace.
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post #63 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Ross
I guess I'm confused. I thought Fox in N.Y. was the HD feed for the other Fox affiliates downstream. Wouldn't they have to have their center all geared up for HD prior to anyone else passing the HD feed?
The network is fed from its own digs in LA. FOX News Channel is fed from NY with a LA backup.

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post #64 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcadNut
WITI-6: Milwaukee

Receiving 720p from my location, OTA. Said to be on Time Warner Cable as well.

Not sure about the splicer ... foxeng ?
I haven't heard, but I would doubt it just yet. Sometime this month would be my bet.

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post #65 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 09:07 PM
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foxeng-

Would you happen to know the progress on either KLJB (Quad Cities IA/IL) or KFXA (Cedar Rapids, IA)? I don't believe either have the ability to pass HD yet, or at least haven't if can. Would you be able to find any info on when to expect the HD pass-thru and splicer equipment/work to be done for either station?


TIA.

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post #66 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 09:54 PM
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foxeng-

How are Fox affiliates notified when Fox News will be breaking in with a Special Report? Is there an alarm that rings, a monitor that flashes? How much time are the MCOs given to hit the switch before the big "bang"? Will Fox have a way to override a station's master control so that it carries the newsfeed with the new splicer system? There's nothing I hate more than a local independent Fox affiliate not carrying a Fox News special or cutting in 5 minutes late.
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post #67 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
FOX will not be sending HD to the stations in the same method the other networks do. If you check the HDTV FAQ, I believe it is, there is a nice description of how FOX is doing it.
There appears to be no information in the HDTV FAQ about either the "traditional" method, or this different method that Fox is/will be using. Care to clarify and/or post the source of information which would explain this? My searches have proven fruitless.

TIA.
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post #68 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 10:07 PM
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According to my Zenith HD receiver, KDVR (Denver) is broadcasting in 720p.

Mike
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post #69 of 1537 Old 06-05-2004, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxfan
foxeng-

How are Fox affiliates notified when Fox News will be breaking in with a Special Report? Is there an alarm that rings, a monitor that flashes? How much time are the MCOs given to hit the switch before the big "bang"? Will Fox have a way to override a station's master control so that it carries the newsfeed with the new splicer system? There's nothing I hate more than a local independent Fox affiliate not carrying a Fox News special or cutting in 5 minutes late.
The Fox Receivers have separate audio outputs that feed boxes that will give an alert signal and voice announcement. There is one box located in master control and one in the newsroom.
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post #70 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxfan
Will Fox have a way to override a station's master control so that it carries the newsfeed with the new splicer system? There's nothing I hate more than a local independent Fox affiliate not carrying a Fox News special or cutting in 5 minutes late.
From what I've been told, the answer to that is absolutely no. The local station has control of the splicer at all times -- that is, THEY will decide when to switch to and from the network. Fox will not be able to "force" them to the feed.

--Bill R.
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post #71 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDTVwannabe
foxeng-

Would you happen to know the progress on either KLJB (Quad Cities IA/IL) or KFXA (Cedar Rapids, IA)? I don't believe either have the ability to pass HD yet, or at least haven't if can. Would you be able to find any info on when to expect the HD pass-thru and splicer equipment/work to be done for either station?


TIA.
Most of my affiliate info is from the O & O 's and a very few non O & O's. No, sorry I do not have any contacts for KLJB or KFXA.

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post #72 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moorebid
There appears to be no information in the HDTV FAQ about either the "traditional" method, or this different method that Fox is/will be using. Care to clarify and/or post the source of information which would explain this? My searches have proven fruitless.

TIA.
Sorry. I thought I remember Ken H telling someone that it was in the HDTV FAQ.

Anyway, here is a VERY abridged version of what is happening.

The other networks are sending the HD signal (which starts out as1.5 GB) compressed to around 45 mb where the station decompresses it back ot 1.5 GB and then processes it and the recompresses it again to 19.3 mb (or less) then on to your TV. While in the station the audio is then separately deconverted/reconverted in the Dolby 5.1 and then put back in to the data stream. This is where most of the lip sync issues arise.

What FOX is doing is taking that original 1.5 GB signal and inserting Dolby 5.1 while still in its original 1.5 GB form and then compressing to an ATSC compatible 720p format (ASI) 19.3 mb and then on to the stations where that ASI signal is then "spliced" into the stations own 720p stream meaning that the just the data for the stations video and audio are removed and the network data inserted and then it goes to your receiver removing that whole recomress/decompress cycle and even if a station doesn't have Dolby 5.1, since all this splicing happens down stream almost literally at the transmitter input and not back almost at the receiver as with the "traditional method," the video is a better quality and the station doesn't have to have a full HD switching system installed to actually put the network signal on air and still have Dolby 5.1.

I hope I was consistent enough and didn't cut too many corners in explaining it to make sense. I guess I will have to create two diagrams showing the traditional method and the splice method and then put a link to it. A diagram (in this case) IS worth a thousand words. (or more) There are some diagrams that show the FOX splice method, by they are protected by the equipment owners and I don't feel like getting sued for using their original material.

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post #73 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
All the FOX O & O's WILL be HD ready by Sept 12th. Many already are. Here is a listing of the FOX O & O's:

WAGA-5: Atlanta
Does anyone have any info on WAGA and when they are getting their equipment?
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post #74 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 06:34 AM
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WXMI (Fox 17) - Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo, MI

I believe they are broadcasting 720p now and will be upgrading to HD equipment this summer. It's hard to tell since it's hard to get any information from them, but the above is from people who have called them in the last couple months. They are owned by Tribune.

Scott
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post #75 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 08:31 AM
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Saw this blurb on DCRTV site this morning...

"TTG Gears Up For HDTV - 6/5 - From DCRTV's Hi-Def Central: WTTG-DT-36 has been 480p Fox Widescreen DD5.1 capable in the past. Well, starting yesterday people are now detecting the signal to be 720p, like WJLA-DT-39. So it appears that WTTG will now be ready for HDTV when Fox throws the switch for the network. Reports are that Fox offically begins HDTV on 9/12 when the NFL season starts....."
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post #76 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
Sorry. I thought I remember Ken H telling someone that it was in the HDTV FAQ.

Anyway, here is a VERY abridged version of what is happening.

The other networks are sending the HD signal (which starts out as1.5 GB) compressed to around 45 mb where the station decompresses it back ot 1.5 GB and then processes it and the recompresses it again to 19.3 mb (or less) then on to your TV. While in the station the audio is then separately deconverted/reconverted in the Dolby 5.1 and then put back in to the data stream. This is where most of the lip sync issues arise.

What FOX is doing is taking that original 1.5 GB signal and inserting Dolby 5.1 while still in its original 1.5 GB form and then compressing to an ATSC compatible 720p format (ASI) 19.3 mb and then on to the stations where that ASI signal is then "spliced" into the stations own 720p stream meaning that the just the data for the stations video and audio are removed and the network data inserted and then it goes to your receiver removing that whole recomress/decompress cycle and even if a station doesn't have Dolby 5.1, since all this splicing happens down stream almost literally at the transmitter input and not back almost at the receiver as with the "traditional method," the video is a better quality and the station doesn't have to have a full HD switching system installed to actually put the network signal on air and still have Dolby 5.1.

I hope I was consistent enough and didn't cut too many corners in explaining it to make sense. I guess I will have to create two diagrams showing the traditional method and the splice method and then put a link to it. A diagram (in this case) IS worth a thousand words. (or more) There are some diagrams that show the FOX splice method, by they are protected by the equipment owners and I don't feel like getting sued for using their original material.
Yes your explanation makes perfect sense (at least to me). Not to make this a FOX vs. the other networks thread (lord knows there have been enough of those useless annoying threads out there), but I guess this begs the question as to what is the advantage to the other approach the other networks are using? Especially considering the lip-synch issues which I have seen too many times on other networks.
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post #77 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wward
Yes your explanation makes perfect sense (at least to me). Not to make this a FOX vs. the other networks thread (lord knows there have been enough of those useless annoying threads out there), but I guess this begs the question as to what is the advantage to the other approach the other networks are using? Especially considering the lip-synch issues which I have seen too many times on other networks.
The other method gives the station more control.
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post #78 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:01 AM
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Very nice explanation foxeng, thanks.
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post #79 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:02 AM
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I haven't seen this mentioned yet.

WJBK (58) FOX Detroit is broadcasting in 720p. I have no idea if the splicer is installed or not.

Rick
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post #80 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:02 AM
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Alphadude,

Call Dave Budwash at WAGA (dbudw600@FOXTV.COM). He's the chief engineer and loves to answer questions. I asked your question a couple of menths ago and this was his response :

"Here is what I know. I was told that we will be one of the first 15 stations to receive the new equipment to transmit HD. We have already filled out the required station survey. Hopefully, sometime in Late July or early August we will receive our equipment. The company is sending Thomsen out to install the bit splicer for us but if it takes them a long time we may do it ourselves. We are in the process of installing second generation encoding equipment to provide better data to the receivers and hopefully more compatability. Nework 5.1 surround will be passed thru and all of our local stuff will be upconverted to 720p."

"We did an experiment with this technology in May of 1999 and it didn't work. However, 5 years later it just might. Thomsen/Grassvalley is a very high end broadcast supplier. They are making the units. We have other products at the station and we swear by them. If Fox has baseball or football this Fall in HD WAGA will transmit it. Basically using bit splilcer technology we will be connecting Fox directly to our digital transmitter and their data stream will be the one you see. None of the data will be generated from WAGA during network programming. The biggest problem will be the local delay broadcasting of the signal. "



Ask him for an update and a tour.

Tom
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post #81 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by spwace
The other method gives the station more control.
I gleaned that much from FOXENG's explanation, what technical reason/advantage especially if there is a chance for technical issues to crop up?
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post #82 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wward
Yes your explanation makes perfect sense (at least to me). Not to make this a FOX vs. the other networks thread (lord knows there have been enough of those useless annoying threads out there), but I guess this begs the question as to what is the advantage to the other approach the other networks are using? Especially considering the lip-synch issues which I have seen too many times on other networks.
It gives the station more control, but it also puts the sole responsibility on the station to make sure the signal is correct and as most have commented on, the digital stations usually get little attention so problems might go unfixed on the digital for days or weeks until time is found from the analog to fix them. With the splicer system, the full integrity of the signal solely rests with FOX Network in LA. If it is screwed up on one station, it is screwed up on all of the stations. It also makes it MUCH cheaper for the stations to get into full network pass through since the only thing the station is required to have is a 720p signal. It doesn't matter if the station does any local HD or not. The signal literally comes out of FOX's HD receiver and through the splicer acting as an on ramp to the stations own 720p signal, goes straight to the transmitter without ever being touched by the stations own digital studio equipment.

Rumor has it that ABC (which now requires stations to purchase their HD gear) is considering the splicer since it removes many problems from the stations and provides a better overall quality signal for the viewer.

The splicer is not new technology. PBS used a very elementary version of it when they first started doing HD, they stopped doing it because up until recently, it had been limiting what could be done and has now just become viable (in the last 12 to 18 months).

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post #83 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
It gives the station more control, but it also puts the sole responsibility on the station to make sure the signal is correct and as most have commented on, the digital stations usually get little attention so problems might go unfixed on the digital for days or weeks until time is found from the analog to fix them. With the splicer system, the full integrity of the signal solely rests with FOX Network in LA. If it is screwed up on one station, it is screwed up on all of the stations. It also makes it MUCH cheaper for the stations to get into full network pass through since the only thing the station is required to have is a 720p signal. It doesn't matter if the station does any local HD or not. The signal literally comes out of FOX's HD receiver and through the splicer acting as an on ramp to the stations own 720p signal, goes straight to the transmitter without ever being touched by the stations own digital studio equipment.

Rumor has it that ABC (which now requires stations to purchase their HD gear) is considering the splicer since it removes many problems from the stations and provides a better overall quality signal for the viewer.

The splicer is not new technology. PBS used a very elementary version of it when they first started doing HD, they stopped doing it because up until recently, it had been limiting what could be done and has now just become viable (in the last 12 to 18 months).
Ah got it!! Unless I missed something this approach does appear on the surface to offer some cost savings as well.
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post #84 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 10:40 AM
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It will probably be several years ,if ever , before we see FOX HD in the upstate area of South Carolina, because we have a Meredith owned station,(WHNS FOX21) and they have absolutely no commitment at all to even buy a digital microwave link to transmit the signal to their transmitter on a mountain top. Thus the free equipment that FOX is providing will be absolutely worthless to the viewers.If ever I wanted to see a company fail and go away forever its Meredith and the clowns that own it.
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post #85 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 11:57 AM
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Miami's WSVN-DT is now broadcasting at 720p.
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post #86 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 12:09 PM
 
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Does anybody have any information about- WTNZ Knoxville Tenn. station.......there broadcasting a digital feed station...but not any HD programming as of yet.
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post #87 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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FOX network isn't sending any HD programming until September. All stations are in the process of upgrading so, come Fall, they'll be able to pass it through.
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post #88 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 01:49 PM
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Still 480p here in phoenix. :(
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post #89 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 03:00 PM
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I just checked and now it says 720p. :)

KSAZ-DT Phoenix 720p
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post #90 of 1537 Old 06-06-2004, 03:45 PM
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foxeng - does the upgrade do anything to facilitate filling in the program guide, or is that completely a responsibility of the local affiliate? My local station (KDVR, which is an O&O) never has anything in the guide except a dummy entry for "MCC Service 1".

My cable provider is Netflix
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